I must say I do like irregular time signatures, they're great fun. It gives me great pleasure listening to The Dave Brubeck Quartet play around with interesting rhythms, but that doesn't mean I'm an ace at them myself!

Well I was going through specimen sight reading papers and I was doing fine until I came across one in 7/8 and I was like argh!!! What would I do if I got that in an exam??? I kind of froze up...

...Does anyone know any famous classical pieces that apply this time signature that I could listen to just to get it engraned in my head?

I know a fair few "prog rock" bands have played about with it but I'm wondering about older music using it, can anyone cite some examples?

Ant

7/8 and 5/8 are combinations of two-quaver beats and three-quaver beats. In 5/8 it's either two plus three or three plus two. In 7/8 it's usually three plus two plus two, though not always. In a sight reading test, work out which of these method of distributing the beats applies and Stick To It.

If you're preparing a piece with a time signature like this (ie not just having it thrown at you as a sight reading test) you can draw triangles above the three-quaver beats and staples (two vertical lines with a horizontal line joining them at the top) above the two-quaver ones. That can be helpful when you're reading the piece. It's also helpful that the shapes have names with the right number of syllables in them, so if you read "tri-an-gle-sta-ple-sta-ple" a few times you've got 7/8 sussed.

Do not, for the love of the man upstairs, count a 7/8 bar like this: "one-two-three-four-five-six-se-ven", thereby creating eight beats. You may think that only a complete and utter moron would do this, but it's surprisingly common. (I believe there's a similar French habit of counting "un-deux-trois-qua-tre-cinq-six-sept" )

hahahah! I loved reading this! It's so likely!

I find 5/4 and 5/8 fairly straight forward
I even have a song I wrote with a middle section in 15/8 (alternating bars of 9/8 and 3/4?) but those sevens!!! guess I just don't have enough experience with it

I like listening to unsquare dance and counting the sevens!

You have the most charming turn of phrase SF

Yes there are loads of piano pieces in 5 beat time, but very few in 7 beats.
Shostakovitch used 5 beats a lot (eg No 21 of 24 Preludes Op34 is a favourite of mine, and several of the Fugues in the Op87 set, mostly nigh on impossible to play).] I really cannot think of anything I play in 7 beats, not original piano music anyway. Theres a String Quartet movement by Tchaikowsky (Andante Cantabile) that's in 7, someone will know which one it is.

I liked that one myself!!

I tend to make up nonesense words for irrelgular time signatures. Like dum dum dum da da da da - but the staple and triangle idea is much better!

I love the atmosphere on this board, it's so congenial

That's a polite way of putting it!

Us pianists are a congenial bunch! (Now let's see who corrects my grammar... )

Funny, I thought we were better known for our snobbery that congeniality! lol
Still, a lot of internet forums I've been on don't have such a warm atmospher as this one...

What a great idea!!! I've played a lot of stuff where the timesignatures change almost in every bar, including irregular ones, so don't usually have any problems with them, but I really like this idea, and will use it with my pupils.

Does anyone else know Bob Chilcott's version of the Sussex carol in 7/8? It's really fun(ny) to play

Bartok I think uses it in some of his MikroKosmos - his dances in particular - the ones in Bulgarian rhythm in volume 4 and 6. He also uses strange divisions even in more regular time signatures eg 3+3+2 over 8. I'm not sure about famous ones in 7/8 - but Mars from Holst's The Planets is in 5/4 time....
ooh yes miss_tickle_thea - saw that recently - very strange!!!

Yes, split it into 3 and 4 or 3, 2, 2 - but remember it can be triangle, staple, staple OR staple, staple, triangle. Have a quick look first to check which one!

Come to that, it could even be staple, triangle, staple.

There's a 10/8 bar in Andrew Lloyd Webber's "Memory" which should be performed as triangle, triangle, staple, staple, but I don't think I've ever heard anyone get this right.

(I'm starting to see triangles and staples every time I close my eyes. Wish I'd never mentioned the confounded things.)

Where about in Memory??
Beverley.

Can't remember

Actually I think it's "scattered leaves collect at my feet", which is staple staple triangle triangle, but the first part of each staple is often made too long to create a 12-quaver bar instead.

But I don't have the music in front of me, so I may be wrong and I'm sure someone will correct me if so

Yes Katy, I think you are right. Sometimes that bar becomes 12/8, as though 'scattered' and ' leaves coll' fit the the first and third of groups of three quavers. In fact they are just two quavers each a bit like duplets.

Finally just rmembered what it is I play on the piano in 7/4 time.
Shostakovitch Prelude and Fugues Op 87, the one in E Flat minor, I just love playing that with all that tremolando. Fugue is fun but difficult, it reminds me of the mocking exclamation Yah Dah di Dah Dah, if you can work out what I mean.

"scattered leaves coll-" are the last four syllables of the 10/8 bar, making up the two staples.

"Withered". Not "scattered".

Thanks Sonataform. Told you I couldn't remember...

Words cannot describe my love for that composition!

I love irregular time signatures, I find them really fascinating but for the love of a non specific deity for fear offence, I cannot write at all very well in them. Takes me thrice as long just to figure out what I'm doing. Also I was listening to this Radiohead song 'Morning Bell' the other day, I don't know if anyones familiar with it, but I was counting it as 10 quaver beats like triangle, triangle, staple, staple...does this mean its in 10/8? Or is it just called 5/4? Is there a difference?

What are famous compositions with a lot of 3 over 2s?
Fantasie Impromptu?

5/4 would be five crotchet beats, or five sets of two quavers (or staples). If triangles and staples are mixed it's probably 10/8 - unless of course it's actually 5/4 with a lot of off-beat accents.

There's a song by the Honkies which includes several repetitions of the line "I did not know I was small until I entered the land of giants" which I suppose would be triangle triangle staple staple triangle staple staple in 17/8 with the barline at "know".

If that's not a thread closer then I'm William of Orange.

The windband I play in plays lots of modern music and the time signatures change all the time. It is really hard to count! I usually wait for someone else to come in before I do just in cas I am in the wrong place!

So my song that I always think of alternating between 9/8 and 3/4 every bar, you'd say was 15/8:
triangle triangle triangle staple staple staple
???

Er ... no, I'd probably say that was alternating bars of 9/8 and 3/4

Haha ok cool, I didn't know which was more of hassel, changing every bar or having bars of 15 beats lol