hi everyone,

im at grade 3 at the moment, and am going through the AMEB books with my teacher, but i find them sometimes not so interesting. so I bought sheet music from "the pianist" movie and started working on Nocturne in C# minor. do you think its too hard for my level? I can play the first phrase hands together after a week, probably not very well though. I'm playing it for my teacher tomorrow.

also what do you think of the piece?

Yes I think this way beyond Grade 3 standard, it's a lovely piece though something that I would like to play myself. I think it would too hard for me and I'm around Grade 6 standard. Let us know what your teacher thinks.

Just been to my piano lesson and asked about the Chopin. My teacher said that it is one of the more easier Nocturnes (not the easiest though) and I would be able to play it. She has suggested that I invest in a volume of Chopin nocturnes.

Let us know how you get on shani.

Any body got any idea about the grade of the Nocuturne in G minor? I think that's a fantastic piece of music that I'd really love to play. I can manage the G#minor mazurka (Op 33, no1), and am getting the hang of the G minor Mazurka (Op 67 no 2).

www.sheetmusicarchive.net

...maye have some nocturnes or mazurkas

that site is great for classical music!

she says its too hard, but that i could manage prelude in E minor..

I think if you really like a composer you should study some of his pieces even if they are too hard and you can't finish them.

If you get so obsessed with a composer that you just *have* to play some of his music, then it can really make you practice like mad just to get good enough.

I got like that over Gynmopodie no.1 (look at that piece too, if you like Chopin you'll probably like that(, and it really brought my playing along. Now getting a real Chopin obsession and I feel it's doing the same.

If it's the piece I'm thinking of, then the E minor prelude is very nice. I think there's a *huge* chord in it which I can't see how any human could possibly play! My Dad has actually seen a cast of Chopin's hands - they were quite small! Also look at the b flat cantabile.

I'd recommend a boom from the Associate Board called 'Chopin, an introductory Album' which is a collection of some of his less demanding works. Most of thjem are still very hard!!!

QUOTE (StuMac @ Jul 16 2004, 08:42 AM)

I think if you really like a composer you should study some of his pieces even if they are too hard and you can't finish them.

Interesting thought. It is important to choose the pieces carefully. I have always tended to steer away from pieces that are obviously too difficult, and Chopin has been one such case, not least because there are so many other pieces in the piano repertoire that have both taxed me and attracted me. I have always thought of the majority of Chopin works as very advanced players' pieces and my teacher felt that it would be a treat that I could look forward to rather than one that I should have, so to speak, prematurely, and not do justice to. I feel the same. That is not to say that we have not had more than a "brief encounter" (!) with some of the preludes.. and she had suggested to me some of the other less difficult works.

Interestingly enough I have never seen a Chopin piece on the ABRSM syllabus at less than grade 7 ( others may wish to correct me) but notice that on the current Trinity syllubus the Prelude in B minor Op 28 No 6 is set at grade 5 and the Mazurka in A minor Op 7 No 2 at Grade 6.

I think Assoc. Board have used Mazurka in G min (Op 67 no2 I think) at grade 6.

I played the C# nocturne last night (played on on my CD player that is, not on my piano!) and it really is fantasic.

Have you listened to the G minor Nocturne? That is wonderful, and someone said it's been used for grade 7.

I wish there was a graded list of all the pieces that have made up the exam syllabus over the years. It would be interesting!!

QUOTE (StuMac @ Jul 16 2004, 10:23 AM)

I think Assoc. Board have used Mazurka in G min (Op 67 no2 I think) at grade 6. I played the C# nocturne last night (played on on my CD player that is, not on my piano!) and it really is fantasic. Have you listened to the G minor Nocturne? That is wonderful, and someone said it's been used for grade 7. I wish there was a graded list of all the pieces that have made up the exam syllabus over the years. It would be interesting!!

I do not think there is a single Chopin that I do not like! He's one of the main motivators keeping me going on piano.

QUOTE (shani113 @ Jul 16 2004, 04:29 AM)

she says its too hard, but that i could manage prelude in E minor..

The E minor prelude is a lovely piece and it's much shorter than the nocturne. The bits that I found tricky are keeping the left hand chords soft and under control, it's all too easy to bash them out, and the "climax section. I found this section easier to learn off by heart so you can look down at your hands. You can save the nocturne for when you've got a bit more advanced, I have an ever growing list of pieces I would like to be able to play one day.

QUOTE (StuMac @ Jul 16 2004, 10:23 AM)

Have you listened to the G minor Nocturne? That is wonderful, and someone said it's been used for grade 7.

I'm not so keen on the G minor nocturne but I do like the B flat minor, Op9, No1.

QUOTE

I think if you really like a composer you should study some of his pieces even if they are too hard and you can't finish them.

I would have to agree with Silver Pianist here I do not like to play pieces until I know I am able to play them well. My teacher also does not like to teach pieces that are too difficult for a student, she says that there is so much repertoire for the piano that you can always find something that you like at your level. That's why I was so chuffed when she said I would be able to play the C# minor nocturne.

I know what you mean, and really agree with you, you could end up spending all your time playing pieces that you'll never finish! However I have studies several pieces that I knew were too hard, and feel got a lot out of it. I always come back to them, and am ofetn surprised how much better I've become despite the fact I've not looked at it for several months.

I think that obsessions are somethnig that all teachers should actively encourage in their students, no matter what field they work in (I teach in a University). Getting obsessed with something is the only way that anyone really pushes themselves and stretches the limits of what they are capable of.

Education is so driven by syllabuses and assessments that it is in danger of becoming a process of completing one not bland and very challenging task after another. The most disturbing thing about the past 15 years is that it has become so hard to find a student with a real love of their subject. Pehaps is changing fasions, but there seems to be no passion in most of them.

I heartily agree, Stumac. It's a question of not letting the obsession take over too much to the detriment of other things!

You are honest and quite frankly I think we all suffer from obsessions and I agree that it is a great way of spurring one on to greater flights of accomplishment. I also happen to think that we adults with our listening-to-music-experience know already what is out there whereas children have yet to savour all the delights of music composition and in a sense rely more on the teacher (obviously) to introduce them to new works.

If the E minor prelude is the one that I think it is, (Brief Encounter?), I remember that this was the first Chopin I ever played after my grade 5 and how difficult that chord is. I managed it but if I remember correctly there is a jump to it on the left hand from down the keyboard and it's getting your hand and fingers to the correct places and round the notes in time! But above all, I recall playing the closing, dying chords and feeling .. wow.. this is really playing the piano like never before! Sheer delight and pride! Also I remember hearing it played on CD (can't remember who, someone famous) and it was like a car in a traffic jam slowing and accelerating. I think that it should be played with that relentless and even pulse sounding all the way through with only the slightest hint of subtle rubato....

I must go back to it! One of the lovely things about playing is that I get exactly the same buzz from being able to play something I have heard and loved for years that I got when I first heard the piece!

QUOTE

I'd recommend a boom from the Associate Board

How do you qualify for one of those then ??

QUOTE

I think that obsessions are somethnig that all teachers should actively encourage in their students.........Getting obsessed with something is the only way that anyone really pushes themselves and stretches the limits of what they are capable of.

Well said Stumac.
That quote about having something to be enthusiastic about again!
(I wish I could remember who first said it)
which I found years ago and stuck in the front of my music notebook.
(I quoted it recently on the Obsession topic on one of the other forums).

Maggie

QUOTE (StuMac @ Jul 16 2004, 12:23 PM)

I think that obsessions are somethnig that all teachers should actively encourage in their students, no matter what field they work in (I teach in a University). Getting obsessed with something is the only way that anyone really pushes themselves and stretches the limits of what they are capable of.

Yes I agree with you, I think I have progressed fairly quickly on the piano because I'm so obsessed with it. I think my teacher is fully aware of my obsession and pushes me on fairly quickly, always giving me new pieces and getting me to polish pieces to the best of my ability. Sometimes I think that a piece I'm working on is the best that I'm going to get it and she will send me away from my lesson with a list of things to do to improve it .

To return to the discussion about studying pieces that are too hard for you I think this is ok as long as you don't go to extremes. How many people on the forum, and I don't mean you Stumac, have said they are learning Chopin's Fantaisie-impromptu when they are no where near that level (post diploma?). I think it is such a shame to try to learn pieces that are way beyond your level as you are missing out on learning some lovely pieces that well within your capabilities. I would love to be able to play some of the advanced pieces but I would rather wait until I can play them properly, even if that means that I will never play them. But I agree with you Stumac that it is good to be pushed once in a while. I also agree that it is good to go back to pieces after several months, for example I am looking foward to going back to the E minor prelude in say a years time and see if I have improved on getting those left hand chords softer, I could never get them to sound how I wanted them to. Mind you I sometimes think I am too hard on myself.

Playing pieces that are too difficult can be good for motivation and enjoyment but I think that it's very important to play pieces at the appropriate level too, if one is going to do that: otherwise one will end up as a pianist that is always struggling with every piece played and technique won't develop in the same way as it's hard to pay attention to any sort of detail when struggling to play the piece; unless one only learns about one piece a year!

Having said that it is important to play pieces that you enjoy every so often just for the pure enjoyment!

QUOTE (AnotherPianist @ Jul 16 2004, 04:59 PM)

.....it's hard to pay attention to any sort of detail when struggling to play the piece; unless one only learns about one piece a year!

You're absolutely right.

Classic FM has a programme at 20:00 tonight (Sat) on Chopin. It is called "Composer's Notes"