Hi im thinking of learning violin, right now im grade 5 in piano and I also study singing. I want to study music and I have always been keen on learning violin but never took it further. Now I am serious about it because I know that if I don't take it up now I never will. I enjoy playing piano soooo much which made me think about learning another instrument. Does anybody have any tips or suggestions such as good books to start learning with or something? Thank you

Learning which finger goes on which string for what note will take a long time.
You definatly need a teacer for learnig violin. I don't know about books though

And if anyone has any beginning viola tips, I would be happy....

The instrument is a lot heavier, so don't worry too much if it tends to drop forwards more than the violin. In fact, you may find you'll need to position the instrument further forward in order to facilitate the stretches with the left hand.

Bow arm needs to be used with more weight behind it. Whereas you can use quite a light technique with a violin, the viola needs more welly to draw out a rich sound. Use the weight of the arm to avoid a stiff hand and wrist.

Take a couple of lessons from someone who plays the viola. There is more to it than simply playing a big violin.

As to the original posting about starting the violin, I'll be back later today, or tomorrow. I've got to go out in a moment, but watch this space.........

Thanks for that Amanda, looks like some useful stuff in there. BUT: You're assuming I play violin, and I don't!!!! I will be pure violist. I would consider cello in the future, but I don't think violin would ever be for me.

Yes, I was thinking you had already played the violin. No worries, the advice I gave you will be useful if you initially have to take lessons from someone who's only ever played the violin - they will probably try to make you play the viola in exactly the same way as a violin, but because of its increased size and weight, that's simply not possible.

The cello is simply divine, but again requires a surprisingly large amount of physical strength. It's another instrument I played at an advanced level for about 10 years. Sadly, I rarely get time to play it now.


Going back to the original posting, the first piece of advice I will give is the most important one. GET YOURSELF A TEACHER. On all accounts do not try to teach yourself from scratch from a book. There are so many nuances to the skills required to play the violin that it is impossible to learn them from printed words and pictures - it requires real-life demonstration. Even if you only have half a dozen lessons to get you started, it will stop you developing habits which could debilitate your playing later on, not to mention the injuries you could cause youself through bad posture, or holding the bow or instrument incorrectly.

I found the Tune A Day books for violin to be very useful in getting me to grade one in only a few months.

Hey , thanks for the advice, im definatly going to get a teacher, I know that if I didn't have a piano teacher to demonstrate I would probably be nowhere with it, trouble is I cant seem to find a violin teacher in my area of West Lothian, Scotland. Does anybody know anyone? And also, can u recommend a make or kind of violin that would be useful for a beginner. Thanks a lot!

When it comes to buying a violin the question is how much are you willing to spend?

I only spent somthing like £100 or silghtly more on my violin - a Stentor student violin - as a beginner I didn't want to payout only to find it too hard and end up quiting. The strings that came with it weren't great but after changing them I found I could get a nice tone from the violin. If your looking for a violin that isn't too expensive to start with, then I think Stentor violins are good!

Hey thanks, I was looking at Stentor violins online and they look really nice, I think I would rather see the violin first before buying it, does anyone know what music shops in Edinburgh stock Stentor violins?

You could contact Stringers of Edinburgh. Sorry, don't have a link or phone number, but a Google search should throw out the answer. They might even have a list of teachers. Alternatively you could try a search on www.musicteachers.co.uk

I think you will have to be prepared to travel a bit too - as you've already discovered, it's unlikely you'll find many violin teachers on your immediate doorstep.

Hey, Im going into Edinburgh tomorrow to look at violins, found a place called Gordon Stevenson Violins. Just a quick question, how long does it take normally to learn the notes on the violin and till I can go on to graded pieces?

Budding violist here!!

Thanks Amanda. I already have a teacher organised. She's normally a violin teacher, but she also is good enough on viola to do quartet work, so I'm quite confident she'll know all the subtle differences well enough to be a great help to me. Sir says there'll be enough money to spare to start lessons in Feb.

For our budding violinist:
About getting an instument - I intend to hire from my local general music shop (CERTAINLY gonna be one in Ed.). They do Stentor IIs for £25 a quarter. Once you've done that, you can have the hire fee off the purchase price and I reckon that would do me until I'm good enough to warrant buying a Gliga!!! The other good thing about rental is that you get a no obligation trial period with the instrument so you can see if you take to it before investing in it properly. That's the way I'm approaching it and it mightn't be a bad idea for you starting up with violin too.

As for stockists and teachers, try a webs search, 'Violin sales/rental Edinburgh' or something like that. Look in the Yellow Pages too. Ditto with teachers. You can search, or you can try http://www.musicteachers.co.uk/ Dunno how up to date their database is, but there's bound to be plenty of violin teachers everywhere, esp in somewhere like Ed! There'll be some in the Yellow Pages too, look under 'Music Teachers'. Another possibility is to put up a notice in the music department of your local university for a teacher there. Students will charge less. Depends on your needs really.

Have fun and let's keep each other posted as we'll be going at much the same time, although you have a distinct advantage in being an accomplished musician already and me a total novice.

It shouldn't take too long to learn the notes in first postion, for me with in the first few hours of playing I was sight reading confidently. As with you violin wasn't my first intrument, so I think that makes learning the basics like notes and scales easy to pick up. As for graded pieces, it took me about three months before I was practising grade one pieces and now I'm moving on to grade two.

When it comes to violin though, the early grades are really quiet easy, so it shouldn't take long before your quiet advanced I should think!

It's all relative. What one person finds easy another may find difficult, so in all honesty, it's not possible to say how long it will take to get to X level of playing.

I agree that if you already play another instrument, the basic fundamentals of learning the notes are not going to be the most taxing problem. What generally poses the biggest issue is the mechanics of bowing and the bow arm.

Hey, got my violin today from a place in Edinburgh called Mev Taylors. I got home and was looking through the books..."A Tune A Day" and the pizzicato exersises were really good but when it came to the bow I couldn't make any sound from it, so im a bit stuck with it lol

It needs rosin. Vast amounts thereof.

Liz

Yes, you need to rosin your bow, this could take ten mins or so, make sure the entire bow is cover with rosin.
Also make sure your bow is well tighten. When I first started I didn't tighten my bow enough - I was afraid of over tightening it and breaking the hair - there should be a pencil width gap (or slightly more) between the stick and the hair - I'm not saying you've made this mistake, but it wasn't untill I had my first lesson a few weeks later that I realise my bow was way too slack!

Another thing, you can try cutting the rosin cake a little if it's too slippery to make it a little rougher.

After your bow is done, when you practice initially, wipe off the excess rosin that sticks on the violin near the bridge using a soft cloth. You don't want to have it stuck for ever which happen to me, I had a whitened violin because of it.

Hi

I was in a similar situation to you. I was also G5 piano and before getting G5 theory started violin lessons at the age of 49. I am now 52 and loving every minute of playing the violin. Get yourself a good teacher - mine is the lead of our local orchestra with which I also sing in the choir and do regular concerts. The books she started me on are the Kinsey Studies. I am now on Book II. They are very good with exercises which help develop certain techniques but at the same time are very tuneful. I also have books with simple duets in which my teacher regularly plays along with me at the end of each lesson.

Enjoy!

Hey thanks for all the advice, turns out it was rosin the bow needed, lots of it lol. I've been practicing and im starting to pick up the notes and which string they go on, I think it will take a while though. Im starting to get to grips with the bow but it sounds very screechy will this get better with practice? Still trying to find a teacher so I will ask my own teacher at school but so far in the few days I have had my violin I am enjoying it very much!

Hi,

Gald to hear you're enjoy playing! When I first started my bowing was terribly screechy but the more I practiced the better my bowing became - though, if I miss a few days practice (like I have done over christmas) it goes a bit screechy and awful sounding again - but then practice makes perfect!

Hi, I've just started learning the piano at the beginning of december....
it was a 'hard battle between piano and violin and at the end I decided I liked the piano better....or do I?'
so it then only occured to me now....why choose just one? If I like both then I shall learn both!
So...I am buying myself a violin in the 'January sales', an Otto Klier (does anyone know them???) which will be reduced from £295 to £225 in first week of jan.
I am now looking for a teacher, I am already taking piano lessons, but want to make the violin my 'second instrument' so I will settle for a lesson a month to begin with (money see, if I had more then I'd have weekly lessons).
Anyway, I'll keep reading this forum now and keep up with all the other, lots of good tips, thanks and good luck with your violin
Jo

Yes I know the Kliers. Which model?

However I'd strongly suggest that you get a cheaper violin - even a much cheaper one - and use the money you save to get those vital first few lessons. A month is an awfully long time to remember what you have been taught when it is all new. You could get a violin that is perfectly playable for £100 or less. Upgrade later when you are sure you want to stick with it.

Liz

Thank you Liz,
the model is an E2 and I would think is the cheapest as every other model is more expensive!
I will certainly take on board what you said about the four week period being too long a pause in between lessons. I saw the klier and the stentor II in the shop and I don't know if it means anything at all, but holding them....the klier felt like a much nicer violin, it seemed it had nicer detail (it felt nicer to touch, to hold and to look at and seemed like they paid more attention in building it), which probably does not mean at all that it will play nicer but it was a little like looking at a 'higher quality' product.
I will 'reflect' on what to do over the next week as I am not going to buy one until then.
Thanks for all the advice :-)

Hey, well done for starting two new instruments, go for it!!! Piano is amazing and I am loving learning violin. I think violin will help a lot with your pitch when playing piano, I know that being a pianist my pitch is not quite as good as it should be lol! I never bought a very expensive violin, I just got a basic violin because I feel I would rather be able to play the instrument first before buying an expensive one. Anyway keep us posed with your progress and all the best for learning piano and violin!

I think you mean the 2E? We had one of those in stock until recently (won't be getting any more, we found lower end Kliers impossible to sell, I expect this shop has had the same problem!) and I agree it is nicer than the Stentor 2 - as indeed you would expect it to be for more than double the price. If that price includes a bow and case and the violn has Dominant strings, then its being sold at not much above cost, and as such is worth going for if you want a German violin. Probably you will find the bridge higher than you would like, but then, no higher than you would expect to find it on a beginner's instrument that has not had a set up. If it has Piranito strings (which is what I seem to recall they were supplying as default, but I could be wrong) then you will probably want to change those at some point. Some luthiers seem to think Piranitos are great for the price but personally I can't stand them!


Liz

Yes sorry the 2E hehehe ;-) silly me. It comes with bow and case and with Thomas (? i think it's thomas) dominant strings. It's still all foreign to me when you talk about dominant strings and bridges being too high LOL but I am sure I will be talking the same language one day soon :-)
May I ask why you found them 'impossible' to sell? is it that people don't know them so don't want to buy them? or any other reason? if they are not that bad why are they difficult to sell?
Thank you for all this info again
Jo

No there was nothing wrong with them. It's just that German violins really don't compete with Eastern European and Chinese ones in the same price bracket, not these days. It's all a matter of the cost of labour in different countries.

Liz

[/quote]
No there was nothing wrong with them. It's just that German violins really don't compete with Eastern European and Chinese ones in the same price bracket, not these days. It's all a matter of the cost of labour in different countries.

Liz
[/quote]

Of course! that makes sense

I might have found a violin teacher, one who apparently has extensive experience of playing in 'famous' orchestras.
We discussed on the phone and he suggested 1/2 hourly lessons every fortnight (as originally I said I wanted hourly lessons monthly), this would suit him better plus I would see him more regularly and spend the same amount of money! He would be happy to teach me more often now an again whenever I have the extra pennies to spare and I will do my best for this at times when its needed :-)
Now, my first lesson might be this week (I just have to organise a few things with work first and if I can it will be this week)
:-)



By the way, how are you getting on 'piano*singing*lover' ?
keep us posted
Jo

Hey back, Im gettin on really well , Im actually surprised how well I am finding the fingering, it's just the bow that seems to be a problem, it still sounds sreechy but I suppose that will just come with practice lol. I am using the "tune a day" books and they are very good, I am loving every minute of learning. By the way, does anyone have the Braveheart music for violin?

An hour is far too long for a beginner, half hourly more often is far far better.

Liz

Thank you Liz,
I am doing hourly lessons with my piano teacher, I don't know if this is thought of being too long as piano is certainly different from violin, half hour on violin is probably as intense as an hour on piano I guess. Anyway, it all works in my advantage as I will be able to see him more often which is what most people reccomend :-) I'm glad I'm going down the right road thanks to all your advice and now having found a teacher (ps I have confirmed next friday as my first lesson).
Jo



Glad you're enjoying it. I will take a look at the book you are using, I won't buy anything just yet as I will wait and see if my new teacher would like me to buy anything in particulare to go with the lessons.

That's very helpful for me too. A half hour lesson every week is going to be a lot more affordable than an hour one. The teacher I have lined up quoted for 45 or 60 mins. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Planning to get started next month if all goes according to plan, (bet it doesn't though....... ), and I'm really looking forward to it. I have a more regular income now and the redecorating and re-carpetting should be done by then. No more excuses!!!!

I just had my first lesson half an hour ago
I found the half hour 'just enough' not too long not too short I must say.
As I am a brand new person to the violin he first 'established' what if any knowledge I had. When he sussed out how much I know of theory and violins he went on about posture and how to hold violin, we then did some pizzicato, then onto the bow, how to care for it, its parts, how to hold it and again a good posture/technique when 'bowing' notes, then he asked me to bow a few notes (open strings) using the whole lenght of bow (using both minims and semibreves) again checking posture at each stage.
Now for next lesson I have to concentrate on the above :-)
I can happily say I have come out of the lesson feeling I have learnt a few new things, I have something to practice and am looking forward to next one so that's got to be good
Jo

That's great, Jo! You're getting me really excited!

And today I went and got my violin in the 'january sales' :-) got home and done 20/30 mins practice (don't know how long, have not looked at watch as enjoying myself!)
when did you say you are going to start?
is it viola you will start?
Jo



Hello,
I have looked at the 'tune a day' book, I didn't know but apparently it's a 'famous' one.
I liked it, as it shows the 'fingering' (I bought something else a few days ago and it showed no fingering at all! and it was supposed to be for complete 'teach yourself' beginners! so I returned it.), I ended up buying the new edition called 'A new tune a day' with CD/DVD.
My teacher said he used it when he was learning (not the new edition one, he learnt about 30 yrs ago!)
Jo

I will be giving my first violin (a cheap Chinese one) to a friend who's interested in picking it up (Have got a new one with a nice brilliant sound wheeee!). However, he seems rather unkeen to get a teacher because he's rather low on cash. Is there any way to convince him to get a teacher? He's asked me to give him a lesson but I can't because I'm not qualified! I'm quite a beginner myself, having only seriously picked it up in Feb 2006. Suggestions anyone? I probably can only show him how to hold the violin and bow and drawing across open strings. I will attempt to tune the violin the best that I can as the pegs on that violin are not very fitting to the holes which makes tuning a pain in the neck.

It's very nice of you to give him your violin.
As for 'getting him' to have lessons as you've probably already told him how important this is, even if it's for just a few lessons:
-Twist his arm?
-Tell him that if he doesn't get a teacher he's not your friend anymore?
-Do a bit of 'busking' to help him raise the cash?
Sorry, was just joking, there's not much that you can do really, you are already doing your best, you have given him good advice and that's all you can do.
You seem to be a good friend to have
Jo

Haha, that's lame jojo but kinda interesting. Should try some of those and see his reaction. However, I heard most people keep their first violins for sentimental reasons. Is it true? It's not in any way inauspicious to give your first violin away right?

Well, I have my first violin now and I do feel like I will never want to give it away (but who knows might be all the excitement and will actually give it away one day), it's only how you feel at the end of the day, or is it?
Let us know if 'bad things' start happening to you as a result of giving it away, then we shall all learn by example hehehe

Hey, ive taken my violin into school and my teacher has tuned it and has put stickers on the finger board so I can learn the fingering. My teacher has also offered to help me and teach me the basics so im very happy indeed! I will keep everyone posted soon!

Good news that you have someone to teach you 'the basics'.
Do you like those 'sticker' things on the fingerboard? I personally despise them as I like to know I got it right with my ear but I have heard of many people using them so I guess it must be like marmite: love it or hate it!
At the moment I am practicing my 'bowing' technique still on open strings, but it has been only 4 days I've had the violin. I 'think' I might dare to do a couple of new notes tomorrow, but at present I want to practise practise practise to use that bow fast or slow changing between strings fast and slow without any screeches (or hardly any anyway) or without touching any other strings accidentally! I find the A string the most tricky when I go faster to do without accidentally touching D or E, I am pretty sure it's me just being a beginner, but I will ask my teacher to check the size of the bridge for me just in case (I don't see him for another 10 days though).
:-)

Hi Jo!

Well, we should be OK for me to start next month, but I'm not sure at the mo as, much as I want to do it (and, yes, it's viola), I have a lot of work to do and I really must get most of it out of the way before I take up anything new. Not only will it get in the way of my completing other tasks, but I won't enjoy my lessons and practice so much if I'm feeling guilty about the time spent doing them. So, must get myself sorted and get on with some work......

Perhaps March!??

Oh, for the member who asked how to convince her friend to get a teacher: Simply ask him if he wants to be any good at violin and, if he says 'yes', then tell him to forget it if he won't get even basic lessons from a teacher!!!

Hiya I got shown the basics in school today and I got exercises such as scales and "twinkle twinkle little star", lol, so I have been practicing. I also got shown how to use the bow and hold the violin properly, so I am very excited . I have the same problem Jojo, everytime or most of the time when I play the A string it gets mixed in with the D or E but I think that will pass in time, its just getting the bow parallel with the bridge. I also got the stickers on my violin but only the 1st and 2nd fingers and I have found it a great help, right now I am only using them till I get the hang of the bowing so I can then concentrate on my pitch. Anyway I will keep posted

excellent!
I went to a luthier today (just with the excuse that I had to buy some rosin... ) and brought my violin along with me hehe
I asked them (there was him and his assistant) about my chin rest. They said it was unsuitable to my violin as it touched the tailgate, they advised me to take it back where I bought it so I could get them to give me a different more suitable chin rest, but as it is far away and I can't be bothered I bought one from them (a Guarneri one) and they fitted it for me (I bought a wooden one and it makes a huge difference! the plastic one used to make me sweat! now I don't anymore and it is much more confortable as well)...anyway, while I was there I asked them if they thought my bridge was shaped well as I wouldn't want the D and A strings almost impossible to play just because the bridge is not done properly, they reassured me it is shaped properly, so it is just me doing it wrong hehehe mind you, I am getting better and now it does not happen as much, I can also half of the time do it right while I take my eyes off the strings! wow!
I have tried a 'couple of fingers' on D and A string but I feel I want to practice more on my bow technique before I take on more (it is now 5 days I have started so very early days).
Someone on this forum once reccomended a 'centerpitch' tuner, I could not find one, but I did find it off an e-bay music shop in US! I received it today...I bought it because I wanted reassurance that I am tuning my violin well (i see my teacher once every 14 days)...I tune it myself without the tuner then get the tuner out to confirm if I got it right and I got it 'almost right', just slightly off on a couple of strings!
The only thing with this centerpitch tuner....I think it is supposed to be clipped on scroll, can anyone confirm? Only because my pegs are in the way I can't clip it as firmly as I'd like and with the time it starts 'shifting' off position! Anybody else has this tuner and can comment?
Many thanks
Jo

Hey, yeah Im the same Jojo , I would rather get my bowing technique better before learning all the fingering. I think it's because im a little apprehensive about playing notes while my bowing is still a bit screechy, lol, but practice makes perfect! Thats really kool you are getting all accessories for your violin that will help you, I want to go and get some decent rosin. Keep us posted!!!! By the way, is it better to play the bow harder or softer on the strings? I mean how much force do I use on the strings?

A tip for you two...if you are having problems with touching other strings when you are playing another string - try for maybe 3 minutes a day. Draw your bow across the G, D, A and E strings a few times and all the while making sure your elbow is in one position. Remember that elbow position so next time when you do string changes, just shift your elbow to that required position. There are 7 positions in all - G, D, A, E, G and D, D and A & A and E. Good luck!

About how hard you have to press, it depends on the dynamics. If the piece calls for p, you obviously don't put too much pressure on the strings. Putting too much pressure on the strings may also produce a scratchy sound. If you want to play loud, use alot of bow speed with slightly more pressure (pressure comes from your index finger on the bow) than usual. This is what I usually do.

Thanks for the advice, im playing just now (while also on my laptop), lol, and im just practicing long bowing strokes on all the different strings. My teacher was trying to explain to me the importance of keeping my elbow in a certain position for playing so thats what im trying to do without moving the top of my arm near my sholder. I have exercises but im going to keep practicing the bowing at the moment lol. I have to say I am loving every moment of learning the violin!!!