I decided to post this thread in the teachers section as I thought this is a question for you!

When I play fast pieces, such as the moonlight sonata and Chopin's etude 24, I find that even though I can play the notes evenly and can play with adequate expression I cant seem to be able to quicken the piece up to the required speed. My hands seem to get tired very quickly and my wrist always seems to be the first to get tired. My teacher at the moment has spent a whole lesson on relaxing my wrist and certain techniques, but I still cant seem to be able to play fast because my wrist seizes up quite quickly and my hands get tired so easily.

Can anyone suggest what I might be doing wrong? Can anyone suggest some techniques or exercises to do?

Many thanks

Happy new year everyone!

I have this problem too, especially when trying to increase the tempo of chopin studies! It's important to make sure that your hand isn't 'stretched' out, and remains as narrow as possible. For example, when playing arpeggios, the thumb needs to come under as soon as possible for the hand to avoid over-stretching.

With chopin etudes I practice them hands separately and slowly first of all. It also helps if you can memorise them, as you will be able to play faster and keep an eye on your hand shape. Once the music is learnt at a slow speed, use a metronome to gradually increase the speed comfortably by a few notches, eg by 8-10 bmp each time.

My problem was that I was practicing slowly and then going straight to the fast tempo, but it's important to cover the different speeds in between in order to build up your stamina. I'm not as fast as I'd like to be yet, but it's certainly improving.

Perhaps you did not do enough slow practice.
Your teacher is correct about relaxing your wrist.
It is the fundamental.

As Hannah says, the secret is to speed it up gradually with the metronome, if you can play it comfortably slowly then just increase the metrenome a few beats at a time; it's not possible jump from playing slowly to suddenly be able to go much faster. Make sure you play it consistently well (and without hurting) at each metronome mark before moving on, it may not be a quick process: can take months, but it will work eventually .

I agree with what's already been said - so no need to repeat it..

I always found submerging my hands in warm water before doing any fast finger work helped to keep things pain free. Ideally, doing the washing up before you embark on practice is the way forward. Pain free practice and you become very popular at home to boot.

That reminded me of my previous teacher who said that he played better after doing the washing up.

Pain on practising is something that I've never ever had - even on the occasions when I've done four or more hours a day. However, looking at some pupils' hands when they say, "This hurts", I have come to the conclusion that this must depend to some extent on physical make-up. I can see the excessive stretching in the skin between the knuckles, and how the wrist tenses up to compensate for this. So - I don't know what point I'm making, really, except that this is bound to more of a problem for some than others because of how their hands are made!

Yes, this is absolutely true. There are two concepts going on in the same thread here - one about improving technique and the other about increasing stamina. Both are important; there is no point in creating enough stamina to overcome poor technique. It would be like a 100m sprinter training as hard as he could to overcome the fact that he hops after every third step: just cut out the hops!

When the pain starts it's not difficult to identify which muscle is starting to seize up. It could be in your finger, or at the back of your hand, or in your wrist, or the top of your forearm, or the underside of your forearm, or in your upper arm or possibly even your neck (stiffening up which creates tension everywhere else). Once you've established which bit it is, you'll then be able to sense when it's starting to become tense as you play, and work other muscles more in order to take the pressure off that one.

Another point: how are you sitting at the piano? Unless you're supporting your body weight through the piano stool (via your bottom) and the ground (via your feet), you must be doing it through the keyboard (via your fingers) and therefore using muscles that you need for other purposes.

There is a useful DVD called Yoga for Musicians http://www.jazzwise.com/catalog/product_in...roducts_id=6555 that I have used in teh past adn still use when I get twinges. The first 30 mins or so focuses on relaxing the body before playing and helps make you conscious of how your arms should feel. I haven't the patience to do the rest which is actual yoga! It's really important that you continue trying to sort this out because you may end up with permanent injuries from too much tension. Your whole body is involved in piano playing, not just fingers and wrists and the video helps you become aware of this. If you still have trouble it may be worth investigating Feldenkrais http://www.feldenkrais.co.uk/what.html which helped me to learn to release tension, or the Alexander Technique of which I have no experience but I am sure others on here have. There are also piano teachers who specialise in 'playing without pain'.