Hi, I'd just like to know what others' opinions are on the subject of learning both violin and cello, since I have been seriously considering taking up the cello soon but have been discouraged by quite a few people who say that learning the cello will eventually hinder my progress in both instruments due to the different techniques. Like many other violinists, I really love the sound of the cello and have always wanted to learn. Now that I'm quite finished with my piano, I thought it would be nice to finally get round to it.

However I'm afraid that my violin playing will somehow be affected by the different technique (which I heard can be quite the opposite of violin technique) and bow hold of the cello. I understand that it may be a little bit confusing at first, but I just wanted to make sure that in the long run it won't be seriously damaging, or hinder my progress in each. After listening to some negative opinions I'm really worried about that now. Is it possible to play both the violin and cello up to a high level and eventually be equally good at both? Also what are the pros and cons involved in learning both at the same time?

Thanks.

Hey!

Firstly, happy new year.

Now that's out of the way, I'll try to answer your question with my own experience. I played the violin before I started the cello - I was at around G6 standard with the violin when I started cello and fell so in love with the cello sound that I gave violin up for a while, until I started to play Irish and Scots music in a local traditional music session (cello was a little too large for that!).

At first I struggled with both and kept changing between the two, finding it difficult to decide which one I loved more (and I really believe that you can only get to be really good at one instrument). Eventually I decided to embrace the chaos and play both because I love them both so much and, slowly, an order is establishing itself - I am most definitely a violinist first and foremost and my violin playing is more confident and more steady than my cello, but my cello is progressing nicely too. I figure I can only be really good at one, but perhaps I can be quite good at the other too.

Maybe the balance will change and cello will take over as my primary instrument, but I'm just going to keep working at both and let the instruments make their minds up about that one. I currently do an hour and a half of violin every day and a half hour of cello.

I haven't had any great difficulty in switching between them - they feel so different that you automatically make the change after a while (at first my cello teacher would constantly say to me 'you're holding your bow like a violinist' - now he hardly ever has to say that) - my violin playing hasn't been affected (in some way I think it has improved because of it) and my cello playing has taken some things from my violin playing (understanding of intonation, dynamics, bow changes etc and even just the simple process of producing sound from a string with a bow).

If you love both instruments and you feel that you violin is solid enough to take it, I'd say go for it and enjoy making music on both - they aren't similar enough to cause you any problems in the long term.

Good luck!

Allan

Take absolutely no notice of the old wives tales you are hearing that playing the cello will somehow damage your violin playing. There are a number of professional violinists around who play the cello to an extremely high standard. It is odd however that there are few cellists who subsequently taken up the violin - perhaps because they couldn't face the contortion act violinsts need to achieve in order to play the instrument.

I took up the cello while studying violin at music college and nobody complained or gave me grief about it. I didn't find the fingering or bow hold confusing at all and I suppose it took me about 18 months in total to reach somewhere around DipABRSM standard. I didn't bother taking any exams because I didn't see the point in putting myself through the stress of it while at music college, but it is not beyond the realms of possibility to play both violin and cello to the same standard. As a professional violinist I simply no longer have the time to play the cello as much I would like. In fact, I haven't touched the instrument for nearly a year

Having made positive comments about violinists playing the cello, there are a few salutary points I would add:

Do not take up the cello unless your violin technique is absolutely correct and rock-solid. You won't do your playing or progress on either instrument any favours if you are still shakey with one technique while trying to learn a totally different bowed string instrument.

The most common habit violinists have when they start playing the cello is a rather violinistic left hand, ie. it tends to want to tilt back (upwards) towards the scroll, almost as if you were playing the violin. The hand must remain level, parallel with and over the fingerboard in order to reach the notes correctly and not get hand-strain.

Playing the cello requires significantly more strength in your hands, both left and right, than playing the violin. The left hand fingers will feel weak to begin with and the fingertips can become quite sore. Practice only for short periods initially, unless you want cramp in your hands!

Find yourself a good teacher - and one that isn't prejudiced against teaching the cello to violinists.

Do make sure you have a comfortable stool or chair and of a suitable height to sit on when playing. Make sure the endpin of the cello is set at a height that allows you to sit with your back straight - don't slump over the cello as if you are pinning it to the ground!! The cello should not be upright when you are playing, but at an angle, so that the lower bouts are between your knees.

Back problems are the biggest issue for cellists - usually a result of bad posture on bad seating. Sitting on chairs where the seat slopes backwards is a no-no. If necessary use blocks under the back legs of the chair to tilt the seat forward slightly.

Eeek, didn't you recently pay several arms and a leg for a cello???

Liz

Errr, yes. Still paying for it too

I really should make the effort, but both time and time management went out of the window somewhat in the middle of last year, when my mother's health took a nose-dive. More recently she collapsed and had to be taken into hospital for a while. Since coming home (and myself as her only surviving relative) guess who's got the job of looking after her.........

Thanks for the input! That's quite some interesting stuff...



Haha... that was exactly what the guy at the shop kept telling me when I went in to try out some cellos awhile ago. I just went to have a look at the instruments and he ended up teaching me quite a bit of the basics! I found the bow hold quite unstable, having my little finger below instead of on top.



Wow, you must've been really really good then... 18 months??? How much did you have to practise? I don't know if my violin technique can be considered 'rock-solid', since I'm pretty sure it would take many more years for it to even get there... But I think I'm pretty grounded in that area for my level of playing. Also I found a good cello teacher who plays the violin too, so I take that as a bit of an extra bonus!

Also I'm sorry to hear about your mother, Amanda. I hope things get better soon.

I know lots of people who do both they said its hard at first but they have problems atfer a while

As long as your violin technique grounding is firm, you're aware of any short-comings and can put things right when they are going wrong, then you should be ok starting the cello.

I suppose I did about two hours practice a day on the cello, but having already reached a very advanced standard on the violin, the fundamentals of cello playing didn't exactly come across as rocket science. Things like using the bow correctly, tone production and intonation weren't going to be an issue. When starting to use thumb position, that was quite painful to begin with - the side of the thumb is surprisingly sensitive to pressure.

However, the most awkward key to play in on the cello though is E major. The scale is a pig to play. For two octaves you start in 2nd position on the C string, then move back to 1st position on the G string, then back again to half position on the D string, then up to 3rd position on the D string, then back to 2nd position on the A string. If you can master that and get the intonation right every time, you'll be doing just fine



Thanks. Unfortunately she's got a long-term health issue that can only get worse. Ho hum. Having also helped to look after my father before he died from a terminal illness, I've become quite a strong person mentally. I manage to grin and bear most problems, somehow.

Whoa... that E major scale seems very, very... intimidating. What exactly is thumb position? Is it when you play in the higher positions using your thumb as first finger instead? Sounds painful and cramp-inducing! But for the lower positions are the fingerings same as violin- eg. 1,2,3,4 starting from the index finger?

Also I can understand what it's like to take care of a person with long-term illness. My mother struggles looking after my grandmother now, and also had to take care of my grandfather for quite a while before he passed away. Definately not an easy job.



Does that mean that the problems they started out with got worse as they progressed?

How rock-solid is rock-solid?

After 11+ years of playing violin I still feel like my technique has a long, long way to go. I played cello for a very short time and gave up because school needed the instrument back (someone else was actually taking lessons and needed it) but I still love the instrument more than violin. I was 12 at the time, and after 6 months got to the same standard as I was on violin! The only reason I haven't taken it up again is that I was told that it's not worth risking my violin technique, and since that was pretty poor until recently I was inclined to agree. Oh, and the whole practice time thing...but that's another matter! How were you doing 2 hours on cello each day and still fitting in enough time on violin, Amanda?

You'll soon get used to playing in E major on the cello, it's not so hard and you won't have to face it for quite a while yet if you're just starting out.

Thumb position is when you use your thumb in addition to your fingers to play notes - most frequently you place your thumb on the octave harmonic of the string and it acts as a fifth finger. It hurts at first but eventually a bit of callous will build up and you won't feel it anymore.

The fingerings are not the same as violin - each finger represents a semitone (usually, except with extensions) on the cello. This means that to play a C major scale starting on the open C string and without position changes, you would play:

o, 1, 3, 4, o(g), 1, 3, 4, o(d), 1, 2, 4, o(a) 1, 2.

The spaces between the fingers should be equal. This will make much more sense when your teacher shows you as my written explanation is about as clear as mud!

Good luck!

Allan

There's technique and there's "technique". I've inherited pupils who somehow get the left hand around some quite difficult music, but only in a moderate fashion and using their own unorthodox technique. For example, players who won't shift (as such) above third position when playing a scale or music that would normally require another shift, they just keep sliding their fourth finger further up the fingerboard to play the higher notes. This is an extreme example I know and I'm not suggesting anyone here on this forum would have such potentially harmful habits, but once formed and played in over a few years, any bad habit is very difficult to undo and easily transfer themselves to another string instrument.

Four and half hours on the violin and two on the cello. Yes, it was hard work, but I was in my third year at music college when I started the cello. By then we were allowed to opt out of the musicology and history modules, so I spent the time that would have been devoted to written work playing the cello instead.

That makes me want to cry. I wanna go to music college and have that time!!! 18 months....

Well, my technique is better than that, but I'm basically re-learning vibrato (I rely too much on my wrist and don't have much of a range of vibrato so that needs sorting), sorting out bow technique in general, trying to sort out left hand pizz and so on - still basics really. That's why i worry about cello

Well Bohemian, if you got a distinction at grade 8, I can only assume that you're technique must be pretty good!

Amanda, hang in there with mum! I daresay your music helps you deal with all the emotions of it too.

I know exactly how you feel Bohemian, but I also think you need to give yourself some breathing space. I get a feeling you'll go back to the cello one day.....

I know that I found the cello a really refreshing change from playing the violin. It was my special treat at the end of the day and it gave me a chance to unwind because I was playing purely for my own pleasure . No exams, no pressure, totally worry free enjoyment.