I'm thinking of taking ATCL recital this term (as I don't want to do a quick study and viva!). Looking at the list of pieces they all look much harder than the DipABRSM ones!! Is this just organ and is ATCL considered as good as the ABRSM ones? I would be doing an own choice programme and does this look OK/ do you think it would be approved!

Langlais-Te Deum
Bach- O mensch bewein OR Prelude and Fugue in A 536
Alain- 3 pieces
i Variations on a theme by Clement Jannequin
ii Le Jardin Suspendu
iii Litanies

That's about 35 mins with a 1 minute break between pieces. I'm 16 and also does anyone know whether you have to do it at Trinity or whether I could just take it at a church of my choice in South London where I live.

I disagree on the repertoire for ATCL/Dip (having done both myself) - I found them very similar. In the light of your comments, I am a bit bemused by your suggested programme because Litanies is on the LRSM list and the Variations are on the LTCL list!

For info, at ATCL I did Buxtehude BuxWV159, Hindemith Sonata III, Bairstow Organ Sonata 3rd movt and Rheinberger Sonata 12, 1st movement.

Remember you will need to seek approval from the Trinity dip office for your own choice programme. This is not necessary if you choose off their list of course.

For organ specifically, I don't think it makes much difference whether you have ATCL or DipABRSM, they are both good achievements - especially for a 16 year old. Have you considered starting the RCO diplomas, perhaps the CertRCO, which if you like are the "industry" standard for organists? What does your teacher think?

That aside, you can certainly do the ATCL at your choice of venue, you make the arrangements through the local rep. It is nice to be in control of the venue and to know the instrument well. One less thing to worry about on the day!

Good luck! Take a look in Viva Organ as well since we often discuss diploma matters therein too.

Thanks!

DipABRSM has some virtually sightreadable pieces like Jongen Petit Prelude Wachet Auf, and the Brahms chorale prelude whereas ATCL has some really really hard ones like Schuman fugue 2 and Dieu Parmi Nous!

Litanies is on LRSM but it is/was? also on Trinity Performer's certificate; Variations is on Grade 8 and LTCL !

It says that you have to do a major work like a sonata and given I don't want to do a trio sonata or something like Rheinberger (erggh) I thought I could do this Alain set.

I'm doing ARCO in summer. The history topic is horrendous- South Germany and Austria 1650-1800!! All your favourite composers like Kerll, Muffat etc.

No Bach on your programme DO you think the O mensch or the Prelude and Fugue would be better- they're both about the same length

Beware! Being able to sight read a diploma piece is not a guarantee of a successful performance. Musicality, control, interpretation and all these types of thing come into play.

Litanies is definitely of LRSM standard, if only for the penultimate page and the LH work. Do you play these strictly or do you cling - as us mere mortals do - to the rumoured idea that Alain felt they should be performed 'approximately' as tone clusters?

I don't know either of the Bach pieces so can't advise you on those I'm afraid. Why don't you give the Hindemith a bash? It's quite straightforward, apart from the last movement if you take it at a nice brisk pace... The key thing is a nice varied programme. Whilst grouping the Alain pieces together might be nice, realistically they were just printed together in a single volume. Is that a strong enough reason to include them as a set? I'm not aware of a stronger link between the three works.

Good luck with the ARCO! I don't envy the historical topic - mine was France in the time of Cavaille-Coll etc. Bit more straight forward!

Litanies is fairly straightforward apart from "that left hand bit". I do try to play all the notes but I do play it a bit slower than most as I think it brings out the shape and line in the theme more and so the modal harmonies are clearer- it is "vivo ma SEMPRE LIRICO". I don't believe the note cluster myth at all- it simply doesn't work on an organ without schwimmers which weren't around in Alain's day- the winding goes like a bouncy castle... It sounds especially awful on an organ with barker lever action... Also the LH is motivic...

I don't really like the Hindemith 3... THat's on LRSM!

Although it isn't a sonata... Alain did perform the pieces together and it is fast slow fast...

Well I offered my advice, you are clearly more mature in your thinking than me! Are you really only 16?

If only it was original thinking

...tbh I'm only thinking of doing ATCL since I have some recitals coming up in March anyway for which I've already learned pieces and was hoping I could pick some of them to fit the criteria... I haven't learned any pieces specifically for it and I reckon they may well refuse the Alain as a "sonata" which I suppose it isn't really...

Do you reckon if I add a piece to make up the time the programme is more Ltcl standard? Say if I play Mendelssohn S6 instead of the Langlais or something?

PS I have opinionated teachers...its not just me