Thought I'd get all my stresses out about teaching!

I teach a 10 year old boy who is very talented in my eyes, passed grade 2, and is now going to do grade 3 theory in march, having got distinctions in passed papers. He is a very nice young boy and his sight reading is superb.

However, when we're in the lesson, and he has just played a piece, and I will say a few comments about the piece, he just starts fiddling on the piano. He'll just play random stuff or press random keys on the piano right in the middle of my sentence.

Its really quite funny when you think about it. I keep telling him to stop and listen to what I'm saying, and he will. Then we'll move on to something different, and he'll do the same thing again. Also, sometimes I'll play a piece to try and put something across, and in the middle of me playing this piece, he'll start fiddling with notes at the top end of the piano. It's really frustrating.

Also, if we're doing aural tests, and he's standing slightly away from the piano, he'll just touch everything in sight! I tell him to not to but every lesson he does the same thing. I dont know if this is just a 10 year old thing but I know its affecting his playing. Last year when he was learning his grade 2 pieces, he was constantly playing a certain wrong note every time (C instead of C sharp). For about 4-5 weeks I told him about this wrong note, even when he fiddled while I was saying it, I would tell him to stop, and repeat myself time and time again. I even would write in his book C sharp in capital letters. 4-5 weeks went by, and he still was playing this wrong note.

Eventually I told him mum he's not listening to me, and lo and behold next week no wrong note.

Do you think I should mention this constant fiddling to his mum? I feel as though its my job to stop him doing this not his mums!

As a parent I am quite happy to have a music teacher ask me for support in something like that. At 10 it will probably help. Judging by my daughter, in a couple of years he will probably be even less likely to listen to his parents than to you so get their help while you still can!

I get this to some extent with the younger ones (had one yesterday 6 years old who wasn't in a listening mood) but with an older child I think perhaps I'd mention it - gently and tactfully.

I wouldn't be too disheartened. Some children are natural 'fidgets' and they cannot help themselves. This carries on into adulthood. (Think biting fingernails, sometimes smoking, tapping their pint glasses whilst talking to you...yes I know a few!).They are usually quite bright, as their minds are constantly working.

However, I know it must be frustrating but I think you have the right attitude that it isn't too serious and you're not getting too stressed by it.

When I was working as a classroom teacher, I remember a Year 1 boy I had who stressed out so many other teachers as he just couldn't stay still. I simply gave him a cuddly to hold while talking to the class. He was probably the brightest child in the class.

Yes, I do think it's a good idea to mention it to his Mum and also it's good that you can talk to him too. Perhaps give him something to hold whilst your talking to him or ask what he wants to do that would help him stop fidgeting.

Good luck. He sounds like a good kid.

I make a point of not talking if there is any other noise going on.
I point out if needed that my rule is that when I am speaking the only sound I want to hear is my voice.

it does need repeating sometimes but generally I just stop speaking and wait or sometimes cough politely.
I would say that at this age if it is an ongoing thing and you've brought it up with the boy then do have a wrod with his mum (maybe warn him first that you will need to if he doesn't improve).

I have a kid who is just the same. I tried have everything but one thing that does seem to work is saying to him, while I talk you listen and if you can manage this for the whole lesson then you can fiddle and play anything you like for a couple of minutes at the end (usually while I write in his note book). It doesn't always work but its the best thing so far!!!! I agree it is very frustrating and it gives me a headache!

Very sensible advice so far. Everybody has given shrewd, well weighed ideas. I might also be inclined (if he's intelligent and I judge he is) to explain that (a) he cannot effective tinkle on the piano and listen to you at the same time; they activities involve different halves of the brain and they cannot be effectively undertaken together and ( that the child's mother is paying hard earned money for the tuition and it is not right for you to allow him not to listen and heed what you are advising him to do.

If that doesn't work then certainly don't hesitate to mention it to the mother. Wouldn't you want to know if your hard-earned money was being squandered? Teaching is a triangle: pupil, teacher and parent are all involved - especially at that age!

LR

This bugs the **** out of me! and after trying various tactful approaches I now just say, without ceremony, "Will you SHUT UP? How can you possibly expect to hear what I'm saying?" I avoid telling tales to parents if at all possible; I feel it's breaking the trust of the child to some extent, and I'd rather be totally blunt with the child.

I was constantly fiddling with things as a child, I especially played with blutac (sp?). I didn't think about it, it just happened sub-consciously. Some teachers would take the blutac away from me, and then I would find that I couldn't concentrate on what they were saying. That may be a Judith special thing, and have nothing to do with the situation with your student.

Starting in half an hour with 'best fiddler/piano banger of them all' - will go find some blutac and report later as to how it went - for the record for JuicyJen!

A bit of fidgeting is one thing, but banging on the piano is bad manners and irritating, especially if you're being spoken to at the time.

I just sit quietly and wait for them to stop, then when they look up, just explain quickly that we don't do that here, or something similar - then smile and move on.

I don't really explain why they shouldn't do it, just let them know kindly that it's not the done thing at music lessons.

That's always worked fine for me, but maybe I'm just lucky

Sometimes just a simple blank look does it. Apparently I'm good at those

How frustrating for you Jen! I've had many pupils like this over the years, but now I refuse to speak until they stop playing. The first time I explain why (and probably the 2nd time too). After that it's a pointed look & if necessary I say "please don't be disrespectful". If you keep at the 'not talking until he stops fiddling' method for a few weeks (even though it will be painful and waste a lot of lesson time at first), you'll find he should stop.

I used to have a 15 year old who would play while I was talking!

I always stopped and waited for him to be quiet or interrupted him with 'Excuse me!'.

Or...

If they are older and keep doing it, you could ask them a question about some music, then when they start to answer, play something really loud

If I was his mum I'd also want to know.
Jo

Young people live in such a noisy world these days and are constantly on the move. I find my pupils these days have shorter attention spans and cannot sit still in the way their predecessors used to 10-20 years ago.

I have some firm rules when I'm teaching, and playing whilst I'm talking and fidgeting with my personal belongings are both discouraged with polite but determined enthusiasm on my part. Both drive me to distraction and I see them as bad manners.

I find siblings of pupils can be even worse. Twice in two weeks two small sisters of different pupils picked up my case full of expensive reeds on my teaching table, proceeded to open same (before I noticed and stopped them) and nearly demolished 12 expensive, professional reeds. (Case now removed to higher shelf....)

In both instances, the mothers seemed very surprised that it was any big deal, that was until I mentioned the fact that if their daughter(s) had managed to destroy said collection of reeds, I'd bill them the best part of £130 to replace them! That seemed to get their attention!

I'd be firm with your pupil and set the standards you want in your home with your piano.

Pupils who fiddle about on the piano while I'm trying to explain something to them drive me to distraction - it's just so RUDE! In my own teaching practice, I have to say that it is the little boys who tend to do this - or at least, who tend to persist even when told to stop.

The corresponding situation doesn't seem to happen with my recorder and clarinet pupils in their individual lessons, BUT if they're in a group situation there are always one or two who can't seem to control themselves.

I'd still be inclined to try to get it to stop without going to mum! The pupil could build up resentment towards you.

Now I think about it, I'm not sure that I ever fiddled with blutac in a music lesson ... it could make the instrument quiet messy. Eek.

The child in question was sick last night and didn't come, so no feedback, I'm afraid!

Is there an 'I blame the parents' argument here, I wonder? Maybe children who are rude in this way are used to others - including parents - being rude to them in the same way. Some parents think it's acceptable to talk over their children all the time, so they just get used to disregarding whether or not people are speaking. I'm not condoning this, by the way - I think it's up to the teacher to be firm and say "Not allowed here."

I have 2 that do the fidgety thing - often trying out some bits of a piece while I'm talking - both are very bright, able & quick to pick up on a new idea. Usually they have taken in what I've said & proceed to do it - so they must be absorbing the information. Interestingly - to counter the "it's possibly due to the parents" argument - 1 of them is a twin, and the twin doesn't fidget at all - same parents, similar genotype but different behaviour

It is really the teacher's job to control the pupils' behaviour during the lesson - not the parents'. I have this too - I think it must be universal. I do basically what everyone else has said, just quietly insist that they stop making the noise and listen to you.

Sometimes if they begin to play I gently lay my hand over theirs and just say "sh".

With most of them I goes in fairly quickly but you do get the odd ones who seem pathologically incapable. Those you just have to tell them every time they do it and try not to get too wound up. I do have one who still sometimes does it after four years. When I point it out, he goes all red and says "I did it again didn't I?"

Interesting as this is a type of learning.

Some people need to move about ,or do something else in order for information to go in. Some need visual aids so mind maps, others need audio so revising using tape recorder is best, and can't really remember the others.
I know that I take information in much better when we did classroom revision with teacher at front. Reading used to send me to sleep, so I'd have to get up and do something to stimulate the mind again!!

I would just say, 'Excuse me!' in a very firm voice and fix them with my famous Paddington Stare...



I know this is different because I don't teach 1-2-1 but in my classes I have one rule - you don't speak unless I ask you to! I am nice and humorous but also Very Fierce at times because I can't stand bad or rude behaviour...

....And you thought I'd be scary?

LOL!

Why not give them a pen or pencil and ask them to write your comments in their notebook? Get them to turn away from the piano whilst they are writing.

Sorry, just had a day teaching 300 children so am a tad frayed around the edges!

From a pupil's perspective: I used to fiddle around on the piano deliberately, simply because my piano teacher would go on. . . . .and on. . . . . .and on. . . . etc. She was lovely but could go off on tangents for Great Britain and would often repeat the same thing 3 or 4 times. Being a natural fidget, I find it very hard to sit still anyway - I need to be interested or doing something physical so when I'm bored I fidget. I don't fiddle on piano with current teacher by the way.

I have inherited a pupil aged 12 who behaves like this. He's very bright and very musical and will try out the bit we have just been playing while I'm talking to him about it (and I don't 'talk for Britain' - i'm quite succinct). Occasionally I get a bit exasperated and exclaim and say "have you heard what I've said" and of course he can repeat it word for word!

The upside of this is that when he's playing his piece, I can tell him what to do if we need to tinker with the dynamics for example, and it'll happen in the next bar which is brilliant (I've only had 2 other pupils who can do that so effectively) so I am happy to go on taking the rough with the smooth.

I sometimes get instructions from my teacher while I'm playing.

Usually it's 'NO PEDAL!'

Cringes. I do find myself twiddling or chewing my hair while wrapping it around my thumb if my teacher is explaining or demonstrating. Never real thought about it being irritating. Must make a real effort next lesson.

I didn't think many other teachers would have this problem, but its seems that this problem is very common.

I have done a lot of the things that have been suggested, like putting my hand on his saying "listen to what I have to say, its important" and ask him what I've said.

I will talk to him quite firmly about it this saturday, and if it continues next saturday (give him a week to ponder over it) then I will remind him again, if it continues then I will have to gently mention to his mum that I have spoken to him many times about this.

If you think about it, if a child was always disrupting a lesson, and was told not to, the teacher would, I would think, approach the parent.

Twidling hair and stuff I think is ok. I've never played while my teacher has spoken to me, because out of politeness I would wait till they had finished, even if I wasn't listening to a word they had said....

Twiddling hair is not in the same category because it's QUIET!!!! so don't worry and carry on twiddling especially if it helps you absorb what is said.

Though it depends HOW you do it....... I used to take my god daughter to her lesson and she used to chew gum at her teacher in a way that obviously said 'I'm not listening so why do you bother?'

As I said before, it depends on the child.
All children are different, and some just cannot keep still. They are not robots, as much as we would like them to be, for ease of teaching.
But then we would have boring kids.

He sounds like a great kid. Keep doing what you're doing, maybe, when he starts fiddling just say his name, give him a look, and then carry on. Don't get too hung up on it, just realise this kid is different so you will have to alter your rules.

You'll be fine, I'm sure.

Oh no, I don't have gum chewing at all - that's right off the scale. One boy did this one lesson. He was unfortunate enough to be really late, chewed gum, and then implied that the lesson should end bang on time (he was last pupil of the day so I would over-run sometimes by a few minutes).

Now, I'm a kind and patient teacher but I really saw red at this point and on the way to the door, all in one breath I said "Well, don't be late next week, and don't chew gum, and I decide when the lesson's ended." Silence. Gulp!! "Thank you for the lesson" he said and went off very chastened. Most effective. He was on time next week, no gum, and good as gold all lesson.

Oh my God! My kids aren't allowed to even have gum in the house. I pretend not to notice if it's somewhere else, or a friend has given it to them at their house, but it's such a disgusting habit!!

The mouth moving around endlessy...like a cow chewing the cud. It looks so...banal.

But to chew gum during a lesson?

What next? BBC newsreaders eating a Big Mac and fries while they read the news?


Steve

What's even worse it when people chew gum in a CONCERT!!! A girl in my year, who is also leader of the cellos, and so sits at the front in orchestra is constantly chewing, even at concerts and awards evening! It really bugs me!

Chewing gum is awful - It's banned at our school precisly because we have approximatly 50% carpet and 50% chewing gum on the floor... And people still eat the stuff. Chewing at concerts just takes the biscuit, and a leader as well..

CHEWING GUM IS BAD FOR YOU AND GIVES YOU STOMACH ULCERS. Maybe they should put up posters with people's stomachs being eaten up or something like that... not sure what that would look like

I do that...

And from my point of view... It's very annoying when the teacher starts talking just as you've thought up some brilliant new chord sequence or melody which you wanna try out!

Ofc I understand the teacher's point of view too, though!

And - if it makes you feel any better - I've heard that it's only the most able students who do this!

Not from my experience.

Worse still......

I teach little kids (from age 3) so their parents are with them in lessons. And some of them CHEW GUM as they watch. I hate it.

Solution was a notice on the music room door saying 'please don't eat or drink in the music room' and ultimately, I did ask one of two parents not to chew.

OMG I didn't know that!

Have to say, I do have lovely parents at the moment. One child came in still chewing gum and the Mum gave her a right telling off...manners e.t.c.
I am lucky though with my pupils. (at the moment.. ).

I think I'm lucky that way too. All of my pupils are very polite, and I make a point of telling their parents so.

It's nice to let them know I appreciate how well behaved they are, and hopefully it encourages more of the same

clair de Just noticing something.... I didn't mean to steal your signature! I don't know how that happened! Will try and think of something else

Despite the one problem described in an earlier post on this board, I am otherwise working with pleasant students and a good and generally supportive group of parents at the moment.

It is important to appreciate the 99% that make the job so rewarding and enjoyable.

I noticed that too!

But yours is a bit different with those squiggly bits so I thought, why not , it just shows we're happy teaching piano.

I'll change mine and I've just thought of something coz I'm just teaching myself jazz at the moment. I notice alot of youngsters like the rhythms so thought it would be a good idea if I could explain a few things about jazz.

I can now name one of the advantages of teaching on a clavinova - the volume conrol on one side, the on/off switch on the other. usually me turning it down or off with "Now will you listen to me?" sinks in after a couple of weeks - If I have to explain I say "Well you wouldnt play your clarinet/flute/cornet when Mr X was talking would you? Or talk loudly when a class teacher was talking to you?" They're a bit more likely to play up for me as I'm not so much a 'position of authority.' It's difficult teaching children of 8-10 when you're my age as I don't feel in a position to 'talk down' as I'm scared they'd see it as patronising - the disadvantage is they somethimes see me as too much on a level. The turning off is working now though. One of them looks up sheepishly, turns the control back up and says "OK I can concentrate now!"