I made a mistake by introducing a flute pupil to a range of possibilities for her grade 3 exam by photocopying several from each section so that she could make her choice by playing them through at home and seeing which she liked best - I thought this would save a lot of time in the lesson, but I won't do that again. And I understood that one copy from my own music was not illegal!!!Anyway, she did make her choice and now mum won't buy the book because it is 9 pounds and is happy using the photocopy! I sort of sympathise because this is a lot of money for a book which she may never use again, but I also feel a bit cross.
What do you think I should do?
It would be so much easier if flute music was altogether in one book like for the piano and violin, but we have been down that road before.

QUOTE (trio @ Jul 19 2004, 09:22 AM)

I made a mistake by introducing a flute pupil to a range of possibilities for her grade 3 exam by photocopying several from each section so that she could make her choice by playing them through at home and seeing which she liked best - I thought this would save a lot of time in the lesson, but I won't do that again. And I understood that one copy from my own music was not illegal!!!Anyway, she did make her choice and now mum won't buy the book because it is 9 pounds and is happy using the photocopy! I sort of sympathise because this is a lot of money for a book which she may never use again, but I also feel a bit cross. What do you think I should do? It would be so much easier if flute music was altogether in one book like for the piano and violin, but we have been down that road before.

I'm sorry, but that IS illegal - you can photocopy a single page or perhaps even two, to enable easier pageturning. Alternatively, you can photocopy your own copy if YOU are the person who's going to be studying it, or you can use the photocopy in the lesson, but you can't let them go home with it.

The only possibility you have now is that you lend the pupil the book on the day of the exam, which solves the problem but still means you're breaking copyright rules. Of course, the other possibility is that you say that the photocopy is not allowed to be used in the exam, and that she can't use your book because you had borrowed it off someone else!

If she is taking the exam she will have to have her own copy, your not allowed to use photocopies in the exam. Also if she seriously wants to play the flute she will have to get used to paying alot of money for music, all that French flute music costs a fortune.

She must buy the music, if she doesn't and uses it for performance (ie exam) i believe the board are within their rights to refuse to allow the piece to count towards it, therefore forfeiting the points for the piece.

She could of course memorise it!

My employer made us go on a course on 'Interlectual property' rights, which was quite interesting and covered this sort of thing. For what it's worth I would say that.......

It is perfectly legal for you to copy anything that you own "for your own private study".For example, if you want to make notes / marks on the music without damaging the original.

However.........I think that you've already acted illegally by passing a photo copy onto a third party!! I would get a bit heavy with the parent, and absolutely insist that they buy the original for the exam.

Perhaps you could take the line with the parent that you put your neck on the line for them by photocopying the thing in the first place, and the last thing you expected them to do was take advantage of it by putting you in this awkward position...


Maggie

When a student is ready for their first exam I send a letter to the parents requesting their permission. This letter explains entry fees, that candidates must play from original music and estimated costs for this and accompanist fees if applicable. That way they are prepared and in genuine cases of hardship I buy the music on their behalf and they can pay me back over a period of time.

QUOTE (StuMac @ Jul 19 2004, 03:00 PM)

It is perfectly legal for you to copy anything that you own "for your own private study".

Yes that is true.

as long as you dont distribute it, only use it for home practise.

If the music is sufficiently old it may be possible to find a version which is out of copyright protection and that could be copied. (I don't think this is worth it just to use for one exam).

Music that is not copyright protected can be found at some web sites like www.mutopiaproject.org - but the number of pieces is limited and there's hardly any flute music there.

Do you have have to use the published version listed in the syllabus or can you use a different publication?

QUOTE (Lucia @ Jul 20 2004, 03:19 AM)

Do you have have to use the published version listed in the syllabus or can you use a different publication?

On the ABRSM web page (http://www.abrsm.org/?page=exams/regs/ukIreland/ukIre_03_19.html) it says:
------------------
19 Examination Music requirements

1. Candidates may use any edition of the music, except where a particular arrangement or transcription of a work is specified. Editions quoted in the syllabus are given for guidance only and are not obligatory. Candidates and teachers are reminded that the Copyright, Design and Patents Act 1988 does not permit the making or use of photocopies of copyright works.
------------------

Of course the last sentence is incomplete and should read "does not permit the making or use of photocopies of copyright works without the permission of the copyright holder"

Thanks for your comments. I think it is a good idea to do what Bagpuss suggested and tell parents of costs of books before they start working on an exam. I suppose I didn't expect the pupil to keep the photocopies beyond one week and so felt quite taken aback when they decided not to buy the music. Lessons learnt!

What do you charge her for her lesson? And how many lessons do you give her each year?

Some teachers (myself included) only teach 37 weeks a year to fit with the somewhat arbitrary school timetable. 37 weeks is about two thirds of the year. What if you taught her 38 weeks of the year? Still not a lot, when you consider the year is 52 weeks long, so why not say to the mother:

"If you had lessons for 38 weeks instead of 37, you'd have to fork out an extra £9 (or whatever her lessons cost). So an extra £9 for a book - is it really so much?

Longwinded I know, but I think it's a fair point.

Violinia

Could you not write in some incorrect fingering and then..

'Oops, that's wrong, I'll have to rub it out.'

Then proceed to rub so hard that you rip a big hole in the paper!?

(Wasn't really being serious!)

I would just stick to the fact that if they don't buy the music they can't take the exam.
There is no getting around that unless there is a friend to borrow from as a proper copy must be used in the exam.
The only alternative to that is to play from memory but unless she is in the habit of doing this it is not really a safe option.

I had to take my grade 5 piano using a friend's music because my teacher gave me photocopies to learn from, I left it too late to get the books and they weren't in stock anywhere...
It was embarrassing really

Hi there!!

What I tell my pupils is to go to the library, order the music for say 50p each. Try them out then decide which are most suitable.
This is not illegal, the parents HAVE to give the books back if they've been ordered normally by a certain date so they then HAVE to buy the book!
I own a music shop and encourage my pupils to do this!!!
CRESCENDO MUSIC is available on the web (.com) ~ 10% Teacher DIscount Card is available to ALL teachers and there's no postage.
Alison

Alison - thanks for this reply.
I didn't know you could order instrumental music eg the type for exams from the library. I order books quite a lot and they come from all over the county for a small charge, but I didn't know they kept a stock of exam music. I will investigate.........
Thanks

With the re-issue of their Piano Time series, OUP have made supplementary pieces available to print off from their web-site. These are pieces that aren't in the books, so if you want the course book you still have to buy it, of course, but the pieces give a good indication of the range of difficulty that's in each book. I've used several in this way - only thing is I find myself explaining each time that they aren't photocopies!

I know the original post was about flute music - but it occurs to me that this is an idea that really ought to take off. It would be particularly useful to instrumental teachers who need several copies of the same piece.

Full marks to OUP for this initiative. I know there are websites where you can download music, but it's the first time I've come across an actual publisher providing music in this way. Does anyone know of other publishers who do this?

Maggie

Hello,

I've read the posts on copyright with interest. But it isn't as simple as "it's illegal" or "you can take a single copy for personal use". If the latter were ever put to the test it would be an amusing court that accepted someone buying music then taking a copy for their personal use! Okay, if you're doing a duet on separate pianos I suppose!

We've got so used to copying things illegally and otherwise that we don't really know where we stand. Depending on the age of an edition, it may be perfectly legal to copy (and distribute) it. So you need to check the copyright first. It's possible that some ABRSM music may be copyright free unless they have the rights on an edition.
You might be excused making a copy of some rare music no longer in print but it would be worth seeing if you can get permission first, assuming the publisher is still in biz.

Copying CDs - it is illegal to copy a copyrighted CD onto a computer CD-R no matter whether it's for your personal use or not. It is legal to copy a CD onto a CD (Audio) disc in a standard CD recorder (or computer) because you will have prepaid a royalty when buying the disc.

Fun, innit?

With reply to the library thing. My local library doesn't keep stock of the 'exam handbooks' but you can order the pieces seperately. I used to use this method when I sat my oboe exams. It saved me a very long trip (had to travel 20miles to get the music ~ before the internet!) and money! And the best advantage I could give it straight back if I didn't like the piece!
Alison

I've done a search and they don't stock the pieces I wanted for my pupil unfortunately. But I will keep a look out for other pieces though as this is a very good way to sample music.
By the way, the pupil from the original question has now bought the music thankfully.

That's good news. Hope they do well in their exams!
Alison

Rhapsodin

When I say it's legal to copy something for your private use, what I mean it's legal to make an extra copy music that you already *own* for your private use. It's the same with books - if you own a book, and want to (for example) make notes on it as you read, there's absolutely nothing illegal about making a copy so you don't spoil the original.

What you cannot do is make a copy of something that someone else owns for 'for your own private use' - that's a straight infringemnt of copyright law.

Copying CDs - I'm afraid its exactly same. You can make copies of CDs you *own* for your own use (listen to in the car, on an MP3 player etc.) but you cannot legally own a CD-R disk with music copied off a disk that someone *else* owns.

I beg to differ on your last point. Sorry, that's how it is. The fact that you own something does not mean you own any rights to the material on it.

One of my children's music teachers dealt with my inability to "remember" to purchase the music on time by simply invoicing me at the begining of the term, for the terms tuition fee and the music book(s)and if required, the exam fees. There was even a "tear-off" bit at the bottom of the invoice for me to return the cheque with! Any changes & I received an ammended invoice.

If the invoice was still "outstanding" at the end of that term, (once only) she sent a reminder with an additional paragraph that she would not be able to continue teaching my child the following term and the outstanding invoice was still to be settled.

I have dealt with a variety of music teachers of the years, and this lady's efficiency was a relief!

I also always give away used exam music books to other children with the corresponding CDs, as I rather they be used, even if only for sight-reading practise, than gather dust on our shelves. Perhaps the music teacher could ask one of her other pupils if they had finished with an exam book and didn't mind passing on.

So, just to clarify, it's ok for me to use my photocopy of the 1st page of Mendelsohn's Duetto in my exam, because I can't manage the page turn?!

The kids I teach are always really excited when it comes to going out and buying the 'exam books'! Something about them being new and shiny I suppose...

QUOTE (Ayshah @ Sep 18 2004, 08:30 PM)

Perhaps the music teacher could ask one of her other pupils if they had finished with an exam book and didn't mind passing on.

I have just started doing something similar with my recorder pupils. The year 6s who have finished with their grade 1 and 2 books sell them on half price to the year 4s who are just starting to need them. I suppose those who have already bought half price second hand books will just pass them on, or sell them for even less when they get to year 6. This works very well.

When i teach i will make sure that my pupils buy books to play,sometimes i will make copies for them if they ask for some pieces which are not found in their books ,of course im not so willing to do that While preparing them for the exams some pupils want to play the alternative pieces.What i would do is- i make them share the cost e.g if the book cost $20, anyone who is interested to keep the book after the exam will pay more like paying $8 and the rest will pay $4 or $3 depend on the number of pupils sharing BUT in the end im always the one paying the most!! another alternative is to get them 2nd hand books, my pupils do not mind paying half price or even lesser for the books (depend on the condition of the book) but in the end i have become their delivery man and it is very troublesome HaHa! i remembered telling them that i would not want to deliver to them anymore ,and no more sharing please, telling each of them to buy the books if they want to SIT FOR EXAMS!!