Does anyone know the absolute minimum requirements to get into uni to study music for a degree? I'm not too fussed about what uni, but would like an idea whether it is possible, or whether I need to rethink my entire future.

See if you can find a copy of Brian Heap's book - it has a section on each subject, sorted by entry requirements, so you can see what the lowest available offers are.

The top ones will ask for Grade 7 if not 8 on your first instrument and often an A at A level music. If you haven't taken A level music (for example, if your college didn't run it or it clashed with something) then you're often expected to have grade 8 theory. A lot also ask for grade 5/6 standard keyboard skills too. However, requirements vary greatly and the requirements I've just quoted are at the extreme end and there will be many with different requirements! Bear in mind that if you're just shy of the requirements a uni asks for, it may still be worth an application because interview/audition performance and extra curricular musical activities, as well as your academic record and extra curricular activities in general, will also have an effect on your application. There's no harm in trying, as long as you include at least two "safe" choices on your UCAS form ie. where you meet all, if not surpass, the requirements.

Where are you looking at?

The minimum is probably BBB for places like Cardiff. The best universities to go to are those in cities where there are conservatoires. Manchester, Birmingham and London (KCL) are some of those. These universities have instrumental teaching at the conservatoires so you can expect a high level of teaching in that area.

The better universities require grade A in music at A level, grade 8 in first instrument and preferably around grade 5 piano skills. AAB in terms of grades.

I have that book, it's not the most recent, but if you like I could have a look for you?

I haven't really been looking at any as it will be a coupld of years before I go, but I'm currently predicted B/C in music, and A/B in other subjects. Although I am really hoping to get the music mark up (went up almost 5 grades from my prediction at GCSE). I'm currently at about grade 5 standard on my first instrument, and grade 4 on my second, but I'm hoping to have at least grade 7, if not 8 on my first before I go, and at least 5 on my second. The only problem is that my piano skills are very poor (currently doing grade 1-2 pieces), and I can't sing. Would this be a problem?

I wouldnt worry too much about piano skills its not a requirement everywhere, although universities may look for it in personal statements.

What would your first and second study instruments be? I can't see not being able to sing being a problem. Try and get your piano skills as close to grade 5 as possible, but really out of the two I'd say it's more important to have grade 7/8 on your first study instrument. Bear in mind as well that it's just as important to have lots of potential as it is a proven musical record already. Wherever you go, (and this is true for all university courses, not just music), there will be lots of people who have a list of qualifications as long as their arm and they will seem streets ahead of you, which can make you feel small, but just remember that you'll have earnt your place there and you have as much potential as them!

Looking on the UCAS website, there are 184 courses for music, and many more joint honours degrees. If you're not confident of a music single honours degree, pick a joint honours with another subject - you'll often find the entry requirements are lower for those. A few from the list: Bangor wants 260-280 points with a B in music but doesn't specifiy ABRSM grade requirements, East Anglia wants BBC again with no ABRSM requirements (but you have to interview), Lancaster wants BBB with Grade 8 on your first instrument but no specified keyboard skills. If you don't have grade 5 on piano, then pick places that don't ask for it. That way it's a bonus having keyboard skills rather than going somewhere needing grade 5 and it counting against you that you don't have it.

There are plenty of places out there. Best thing to do is work hard at it but enjoy it, rather than worry about what grades you need/have/haven't got!

I thought most Universities want people with at least grade 5 standard keyboard capabilites. If even only for the students sake - from being a music student, and having a couple of people in my year who have very poor keyboard skills and they really struggle with writing piano pieces or accompaniments. I think if you are wanting to be a proffesional musician, basic keyboard skills are an absolute must.

To be fair all those universities are not well known for studying music. I guess it depends on your ambitions for learning and the standard of teaching you want.

I know, but he did say he wasn't fussed about which uni.

He is actually a she!!

Oops! I'm sorry! *hangs head in shame*

I do not recommend 'not being fussed' ! You are at university for a minimum of 3 years, you cant just say I am not fussed about where I go as long as I get in because it is guaranteed you wont enjoy it. You need to take into consideration the kind of place you want to be living in, different aspects of music that may be offered as modules in some places and not others etc.... you need to research what each university offers, thats for any course.

I'm not sure about that, sags_3.

A-level results day in 1991 was a bit of a disaster - I didn't get anywhere near the grades I'd been predicted, so my first-choice university didn't offer me a place. I went through the clearing process, where it was almost a case of "beggars can't be choosers", matching my grades to a music degree course. I ended up in Kingston, and (apart from those horrible nasty exams you have to do as a student) had a whale of a time.

Conversely, there were a couple people who joined us - one after after a term, one at the beginning of the second year - who'd got into their first choice institution and hated it, so moved. Similarly, one oboist in my year decided that she'd made a mistake so went to Trinity instead.

University is what you make of it.

I still think its definately safer to have some sort of idea of where you want to go. If it worked how you have described it, with the people who got first choice hating it and the people who got in becuase they had no other choices loved it, then there would be no point in having firm and backup offers. Why not put everyone in random unis completely against what they wanted?
Then again it is what you make of it. Thats not to say some universities are better than others.

What one person's idea of a great uni is totally different from another person's though.

Myself, my brother and sister all did music degrees. We all had totally different criteria of what we wanted from a course and a uni- if I'd done the degree my sister did I'd have been miserable, whereas not even had a clue about what my brother is doing (mostly music tech and studio stuff!). I had a great time at Southampton and didn't really rate another place I got an offer from once I'd actually been there- but a friend of mine began at Southampton and hated it and moved to that uni that I hadn't liked!

When you're looking at universities, you need to look at a number of things (I have done it twice, so I do have a bit of experience! ).

- Location- do you want to be near home or further away? Practicality wise, is it going to financially cripple you to travel to and from home (yep, it's lovely to go to Queens in Belfast if you can afford to get home to Kent every term end...). Would you prefer a city or campus university? Where are the halls? What is the nightlife like? What are the Union clubs and societies like? There is nothing worse than going to a uni with a great course only to find that all the clubs and socs are completely unrelated to anything you are vaguely interested in, or worse, that they have hardly any societies at all or that the undergrad population is mostly mature students living in the local area while you've just moved in from miles away etc. Or this may not worry you!

- Cost- can you afford to live in London? If you are going to uni in London or the South you may find that it is prohibitively expensive compared to somewhere up north or out of the cities. If you are means tested that your parents should contribute to your living costs, are they willing to do this? If not, then you will still be means tested for that amount but you will be worse off than if they are going to help out. The system sucks, I grant you, but it's better to be prepared than go in naively and end up in loads of debt.

- Courses- most important! What areas of music interest you? Would you like something that gives you a set of modules and no choice, or a course with more freedom? My degree was all chosen modules; my sister had little choice. We both did music degrees. Would you like to specialise in performance or composition, or musicology- or don't you know yet (in which case something with flexibility might be the answer). Or are you more geared towards popular music or music technology? There are courses that are more geared towards those areas. Also, look at the department size- there are advantages and disadvantages to a large or small department. What specialisms do the lecturers have? Does the department run any orchestras or choirs? What is the performance space like? Are there opportunities to see visiting performers in the local area?

Also you will need to be realistic about course requirements, and also where your degree will lead you. A BA in music from a mid-table uni is fine- but a BA in Oriental Musical Technique (specialising in 16th century work) is of limited transferable skill knowledge if you want to go on and teach secondary music for example! Over the top but you know what I mean.

Good luck in choosing. There's a lot out there!

*Head spins*

Oh lord....I think I might have to go have lots of meeting with the careers/uni advisors and speak to my music teachers about what routes they took. Basically I want to get into the best uni that I can, but dont want to constantly feel as though I am behind everyone else. My dream/life ambition is to become a secondary school music teacher. As long as I can do that I will be more than happy.

If your looking at teaching then you might be better looking at a BEd than a general music degree then you get the QTS stuff with the course. I know that Glasgow do one with RSAMD where Gr. 7 was the minimum. If thats a bit too far away though other unis will do similar courses.

I thought a BEd was only suitable for primary school teaching. Thats what the careers person told me :/

Is the BEd a course with subject options? I would think its best to get the BA in Music and then go into teaching with the Qualified Teacher Status.

Careers teachers haven't changed then since I was at school! BEd is the degree you need to teach or BA/BSc with a Post Grade Education Cert. Unless of course things have changed! The second is possibly the best option for secondary teaching as you will have more subject knowledge.

Yep, that's what I was told to do.

That's what I did (BA music and psychology, then PGCE specialising in music, but primary education therefore all curriculum subjects were covered) but you can do a secondary BEd if you prefer. The BEd has more teaching practice but the BA would arguably give you a better grounding in the actual music. Well done for starting piano - if you want to teach music in a secondary school I'd think it would be quite important to have some keyboard skills, but you could easily get onto a BEd course and a few music BAs without grade 5. You can then spend the duration of your course improving them. Have you considered doing joint music-and-another-subject? As the ABRSM requirements might be a little lower.

Would you teach just music or music and something else? If you want to be a secondary school teacher teaching only music, a BMus would be better than a BA?

(I probably don't know what I'm talking about)

No, at some universities the same course gets you a BA!

I looked at doing a joint course, but at the moment Music is the only subject that I'm willing to do work for, and therefore I would love to just study music. I'm hoping that if I can get into uni without a grade 5 piano, and then improve my piano skills while I'm there I might be able to get into teaching.

Just a shame my piano playing isn't progressing as fast as flute did.

Personally, i feel that one doesn't even need a degree / diploma to teach at secondary school.

Yes - ppl will argue that after studying a degree one will acquire the knoweldge in the field in much more depth. But the question is do students need to know that much in the field in GCSE / A-level? Here, im not only talking about music, but other subjects as well. I felt i had much more confidence in mentoring other A-level students when i was doing my A-levels than I do now. The main reason was that I was so familiar with the A-level syllabi and exam formats etc when i myself was doing it.

Rite.. was dreaming before - back to the real world. University study is fairly common nowadays and those who wants to be successful will at least get a bachelor degree of some sort. The degree titles are different between universities. Some are BA. some are BMus etc. Im doing engineering and strangely mine is a BA (Hons) + MA, MEng course. So the titles don't matter too much and i suspect most ppl will forget what they have learnt at universities anyway when they're working in this competitive world.

SOmeone told me that A Bmus is exactly the same as a BA just there's less flexibility eg at cardiff for a BMUS you had to take so many modules in music whereas with the Ba you could take 30% in a different subject if you wanted! However a friend of my parents said that a Bmus may make employers think you are too specialised in your subject and therefore a BA is more transferable to other areas of employment. personally I don't agree with this though!

I don't have grade 5 piano but I've been accepted on to a course. However as I would like to be a music teacher of some sort I will perfect my keyboard skills in the classes that the uni offer(perfect!)

I'd agree entirely with this. However much research you do into your chosen institution 9 times out of 10 all you have to go on is what it says in the prospectus (designed to make it look good), a day's visit and maybe some anecdotes from your friend's older brother's mate who went there to study something different a few years ago. The sort of things you find out and you think are important in advance are very often not the ones that end up being so. To some extent the same applies to the subject you study, though it took me a good 10 years to realise that.