Since joining these forums I've come across various teaching 'methods' that I'd never previously heard of. What are other people's views on using these in private individual instrumental lessons? I have no particular 'method' of teaching whatsoever - I go with the flow and try to talior things to the individual, using whatever 'method' of teaching (usually my own!) that comes to mind at the time. I'm always open to ideas and suggestions, but I wonder if it's right to go exclusively down any one particular road? Is it possible to use aspects of them all? Or are they mutually exclusive? Is it possible that we can lose sight of the wood because of all the trees when we get too hung up on particular teaching methods?

Does it not depend on what you're trying to achieve? We have a local keyboard school where they just have the one course which everyone works through playing each tune in turn until it's good enough to get a tick and then moving onto the next one. I guess some people are happy to learn like that - but perhaps most people don't know any different? I think a course/method of teaching can be a useful guide but it can only be the total solution for a tiny minority.

I don't have a particular 'method' as such for teaching because of course everyone is different. I don't know much about 'methods' that do exist like Suzuki etc. These are for strings anyway and I don't know any equivalent for woodwind. (the one you are thinking of is not a 'method' incidently, just a blanket term for various tried and proven concepts)

There are always basic principles for teaching but I think to say one has a 'method' for every situation is going too far.

I don't think I use exactly the same "method" for any one pupil I teach really.

It depends on the age, strength and weaknesses etc.... I'd say I'll encourage the strengths, and do my best to find different ways to help develop on the weaknesses.

I'm not too bothered if I happen to use a particular teaching technique that crops up in some established "method", so long as it helps me solve a problem with a student, or is useful to their individual need. I might not use the same strategy to overcome the same problem with a different pupil.

It means every lesson is different. Everyone has a different goal in mind, so it wouldn't make sense to stick rigidly to one particular method of teaching.

As sneekymum says, it depends on what you are trying to acheive.

From reading posts by Cyrilla and Violinia that refer to Kodaly and Suzuki, I get the impression that both of these, for, instance, are great when in the hands of a good teacher who knows the method inside-out. What I'm really asking, I guess, is would it be wrong of a teacher who doesn't know about these in as much detail as an expert in the field to try to incorporate some of the thinking there into their teaching? Would it do more harm than good to have just a little knowledge? And would it be wrong to try out aspects of one of these methods unless one was going to use it exclusively? (These are just two examples; I know there are others.)

The impression I got at the Kodaly summer school last year was that it is ok to pick and mix acording to your needs at the time.

Hmmm...living in Japan made me see the "no particular method" approach that I was used to as quite a method in itself! It's certainly different in many ways from music education here. I can see that teachers and students in the UK are quick to point out what they see as the failings of musical educations which differ from their own, but honestly, I don't think everybody is quite so quick to pick up on the areas where other ways of teaching might have more to offer .

P.S. What I was trying to say was, it's been a good experience for me to become conscious of what was emphasized and what wasn't emphasized in my own musical education, instead of just thinking that what I did was "normal", and what I didn't do was "unrealistic" or even "dumb" . Since I'm not a good player, I'm not offering my own experience as a model, of course .

As ad libitum says, a good teacher teaches every student slightly differently. I've seen that in action with a teacher who taught both my sons, and was VERY impressed!

It's a tricky one, Dulciana! I DO think that 'a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing' but it so much depends on whose hands this knowledge is in!

I certainly don't think it can possibly be 'wrong' to incorporate aspects of different approaches into one's teaching - it's what we all do (there is nothing new under the sun) and to a great extent all these great educators saw the benefit of already existing techniques. It is their overall philosophy and way that certain things were pulled together by them that makes them stand out as something rather different and special.

From my experience, it is most effective and valuable to be highly-trained in one approach first - then one can look in less depth at others and quickly see the connections and how to incorporate certain ideas into one's existing teaching. In my own case - because of the depth of my knowledge and understanding of the Kodály concept, when I started learning some Dalcroze I could quickly see how certain aspects would fit in with what I was doing already and develop particular parts of the children's learning in conjunction with this.

As I've said before, I think there is a danger in muddling the use of certain techniques with the overall concept. However, these techniques are used because they are tried and tested and they work - so why not use them? The only problem can be if a teacher is not aware of the bigger picture it can happen that they say, 'Oh, I tried using rhythm names (for example) and they didn't work'. I have never found them NOT to work so maybe there are other problems here.

Think I'm going to stop before I get too bogged down here!

I did a session on the CT course yesterday and the response from the students was overwhelming. I lost track of how many times the word 'inspirational' was used when people came up to talk to me afterwards. People were so interested in techniques such as solfa, handsigns, rhythm names but it also went deeper than that. It is clear that many people are frustrated by the lack of quality music education in schools (which of course makes the job of the instrumental teacher harder as the children come to their first lesson with little prior quality musical experience or understanding).

Sorry - digressing here and I'm feeling a big soap-box moment coming on so I'll shut up now! Not sure if I answered your question, Dulciana...

I think you have! I was wondering if Kodaly approaches, amongst others, were a bit like antibiotics, in that they only serve their purpose if you finish the course! Sorry about the analogy - bit unfortunate - bit I hope you know what I mean! One thing I often wish for is a cut-and-dry method of teaching pupils to count out tricky rhythms whilst maintaining a steady pulse. I've heard of various ways to teach this to young children, but I'd like to be able to give more help to the older ones who don't want body movement and don't want to get off the piano stool! Is there anything that I might be unaware of that I could look into, that also wouldn't take up half of each lesson?!

Sometime ago I remember reading on one of the forums about rhythm names but I can't remember where I read about this, can anyone give me a link to any information on these? Thank You

I can't do the link, but if you do a search on 'french counting names' you'll be able to find a thread which gives lots of ideas for counting rhythm.

I just put rhythm names into google. Here's the link I came up with

http://www.classicsforkids.com/teachers/training/rchart.asp

It doesn't go much into explaining them, but just looking at it has helped explain certain bits to me!

Here's also the lijnk to the french counting names

http://forums.abrsm.org/index.php?showtopi...+counting+names

Thank You, that's the one I was thinking of. The other link is helpful too.

Does anybody use the

SIT THERE AND LEARN THAT PIECE, OR ELSE I'LL WHIP YOU UNTIL THE SKIN FALLS OFF YOUR BACK, YOU USELESS GOOD-FOR-NOTHING SCUM

method of teaching??

Um, I think it is VERY difficult to teach a sense of pulse without moving! How about getting your older pupils to tap the pulse on their knees whilst reading rhythm cards? They could try other ideas such as clicking the pulse whilst reading the rhythm names. In this way you start to get a connection between pulse and rhythm (which I never understood during 11 years of piano lessons). Ask them to tap the pulse on one knee and the rhythm on the other (of one rhythm card, or a phrase from a known piece).

A friend and colleague of mine produces excellent rhythm cards covering all the basic simple time rhythms (I think you can obtain them through the British Kodály Academy website).

These rhythm cards can also be used for memory work, improvising, reading ahead, canon etc. A great resource!

I think I know what you're trying to say with the antibiotics analogy! Of course antibiotics are most effective when the whole course is completed! But, as I said before, of course you can adapt certain ideas for your own situation and start to incorporate them into your lessons with a positive effect without being fully trained in whichever approach. Once you start to use a few of the ideas and find them to be useful/efficacious it will hopefully inspire you to investigate further!

that's how I learned

Me too! My piano teacher would thump me hard in the back if I made a mistake and as I wouldn't give him the satisfaction of crying he used to thump me even harder. Perhaps this experience motivated me towards Social Work- Child Protection!!

Back in the dark ages none of my teachers were like that.
Guess I was lucky ?

* sighs *

Back in the days when education really taught you something...





I sound OLD!

The best response I know to "I can't" is "You can and you will and you'll do it right now."

...and you'll enjoy it!.....

I find that the 'just try the first bar' ploy works quite well.
And I actually let myself get taken in by that one fairly recently.....

I was told that "I can't" is an incomplete phrase - the missing word is "yet."

Yes - you beat me KJ !

Your response to "I can't", isn't always the best one. I tend to observe a pupil's body-language if they obviously look terrified about the expectation I try to gentle talk them through the task I've set. Then I one they've achieved it say, you didn't think you could do that did you? - well you just have.

If a pupil blanks out because they think the task is overwhelming surely a good teacher insures they stretch their comfort zone a little without pushing too hard, then rewards achievement.

I also find humour and empathy works wonders.

Incidentely rhymically one of the first stumbling blocks that my pianists tend to have is quavers. Here the french-names and the Kodaly approach works wonders. I am also extremely careful never to say a crotchet is a one beat note... fullstop. It only is a one beat note where there is a crotchet pulse and the clue for that is in the time signature. Suddenly makes compound time a lot easier to explain later on.

This is where reading/finding out what people like Kodaly have to say and adapting your own style to incorporate best practice without appearing tokenistic can be so useful.

My teaching method is the "Debenham Approach" - a flexible approach based on my own musical experience aimed at teaching a balance of technique and musicality. It encorporates the ideas of many. However I do not recommend anyone else slavishly follows the "Debenham approach". The reason it works for me is that I am Mrs Debenham.

Oooh! Does that mean you have Blue Cross Days????

Are those the days where I half my fees for 24 hrs... No I don't... alas not related to that lot of Debenhams