Hey there,

Looking for some advice.

If you listen to a piece of music - lets say 3-4 bars long and you have to sing back the lower line - is there any advice you can give to someone who really can't get the hang of it - they keep singing back bits of the upper line and making up the rest.

Could you take an example and just play the lowest line and get them to sing back, than add the upper parts gradually and still sing back the lower line? I haven't actually tried this with anyone (none even near grade 7/8!) but it should work. If that doesn't work it may be their inability to sing back what they hear rather than pick out the lowest part, in which case work on that.

Hopefully someone who has experienced similar things with pupils can give more useful advice.

They can more or less sing back melodies when they are played on their own. however they cannot pick out one part from the other.

Ill wait and see what everyone else has to say.

This is an issue of a) picking out the lower notes and remebering the "tune" to sing it back. Could you just try practising identifying the lowest note in a chord first? When your pupil can do that reliably you could then go on to remembering just one bar at a time and so on.

Will try that and see.

The problem is that I cannot afford to spend too much time on this - too many other things to do. I have sent them off to input music into Sibelius, play it back to themselves and pick out the bottom notes.

I will keep trying however,

Agree totally with Val_alto. It's very difficult to sing back the lower part if you are struggling to hear the lower notes. Work on that skill first and then slowly start stringing a few notes together (in parts) and get that sorted and finally work towards a full length tune.

Not an easy skill but loads of work on it will usually make it more achievable. Better still (or as well), join a choir and sing a harmony part - nothing like it for learning to "avoid" the tune!

That will be useful. I would have the notes of the chords on different staves. That way the bottom notes could easily be accentuated to start with, either louder or in a different instrument.

What about getting some four part harmony songs eg madrigals from Choral Public domain library and having him use those to train his ears?

ILl try that also. I have loads of material like that which I could use with them.

Thank u.

This is something that I couldn't do to save my life even when I hit diploma level.
The only thing that has since made me even slightly able to do it has been playing hymns and attempting to sing alto in the church choir - only during practises when I'm not playing the organ, as I still wouldn't do it for a service, as I can't guarantee getting it right! But it's much easier to sing along with a voice than with an instrument, so if you can sing a lower part yourself it might be worth trying to get your student to do it WITH you first, before attempting it alone. Sitting at the piano on my own and practising this is useful too - going at my own pace, and really homing into the lower part without the distraction of a teacher.

You should start off by training your pupil to listen to and sing the lower note of any interval played. Start with a particular interval and when this is done easily, vary the interval and/or octave where the interval is played. It obviously gets more difficult the closer the interval, i.e. major and minor second, and at the extremes of the keyboard (I remember my Grade 8 examiner playing intervals only using the extremes of the keyboard )

You can help initially by (i) playing the lower note immediately after the upper note (the upper note being similar to a grace note but held on after it is played), (ii) playing the lower note louder, (iii) playing the lower note an octave lower, or (iv) combinations of the above.

Once your pupil is confident with this, then go on to two notes, three notes etc.

There is no point plunging your pupils in the deep end and hoping that they can miraculously pick out the lower part of a 3-4 bar phrase - miracles don't happen that often!

Another approach might be to let your pupil listen to some baroque trio sonatas with mixed instrumentation. I have a recording of Vivaldi trios and small ensembles, with a recorder duetting with violin or oboe. The advantage of this is that the voices are not the same, which makes it easier to hold onto a melody line - so you might get them to fix their thoughts on the violin only, or the oboe only. Baroque music is relatively open in texture and more likely to be contrapuntal, so is easier to do this with - I'm not just saying that because it's what I like best!

Have you come across hofnote? Students can practise aural tests online for a small fee, its worth checking it out here: www.hofnote.co.uk

If the problem is actually hearing the lower part, I start by playing it much louder than the upper part & then gradually increase the volume of the upper part. I also do very small sections to start with, if necessary - perhaps one bar to start with, or even just 2 notes. I think you just need to build it up very gradually.

It is time consuming, so if the student can help themself with recordings or websites or a suitable friend, it's a good idea. Choral singing is brilliant practice in musicianship in so many ways. I think all students should do it, though unfortunately not many do.

How about actually singing each line. Four bars is not that long, and it is much easier to learn a sung part from listening to it sung than hearing it played on an instrument.

Also, keep it simple to start with. If you have a pupil who really can't hear the harmony well enought to sing it back, try playing a sequence of thirds, and listening to those until the lower notes can be sung back, e.g. CE DF EG, then you sing back the higher notes.

'Better still (or as well), join a choir and sing a harmony part -'

Or go to your local folk song club and hear people who have never had a formal music lesson in their lives sing spontaneous natural harmony, and join in...
Maybe I'm biased. I've just spent a fabulous weekend at Cheltenham Folk Festival, loads of lovely sung harmony, some precisely worked out, but some just happens, and you can learn so much from listening.

Folk is so totally different from choral music, partly because the focus is learning by listening to each other rather than concentrating on reading the music.

best of luck
SS