Hi
My son is thinking about applying for BMus Jazz at some ot the UK conservatoires. His guitar teacher has suggested Birmingham and LCM, with possibly RAM and Guildhall if he takes a gap year to raise his standard. Trinity is another possibility though I hear mixed views. Maybe Royal Welsh too? We also know a couple of people who've gone to Berklee in Boston.

He is making the transition from popular music, so has some catching up to do in terms of sight reading, jazz theory & repertoire (although apparently he is making rapid progress).

He has prospectuses and will attend open days (& possibly consultation lessons). Does anyone have experience of jazz at the conservatoires? or more general views on the style and stengths of the ones above?

Thanks for your help.

Leeds does a jazz degree.

Thanks for the reply Violinia - we had already spotted Leeds (LCM!). Do you know how well the course is regarded? I get the impression that Leeds College of Music is some way down the pecking order for classical?

I've heard it's a very good jazz course. A professional jazzer friend of mine did the Guildhall jazz course and didn't rate it that highly - she said the best thing about it was the opportunity to play with lots of different people.

Violinia

I live in Leeds and went to a Leeds College of Music adult education class until they closed many of the community education courses last year. The talk at the time was that they wanted to save their resources for developing conservatoire status, rather than "waste" it on adult education (hmmm), but how true that supposition was I don't know.

Two of my teachers did the Jazz course at Leeds, one quite a number of years ago but the other fairly recently. If you like, I can ask her for her opinion - PM me if you've got any specific queries.

Just generally, Leeds is a terrific city for young people - it's very vibrant, masses of stuff happening, and the nightlife is amazing, so I'm sure he would enjoy his time here if the course is suitable, but of course it depends what he's looking for in a city. There's lots of cultural and educational stuff as well Again, do PM me if you want more info.

If you look at the up and coming youngsters on the London jazz scene the conservatoires that come up most often in their CVs are RAM and Guildhall. I think that these are the ones most highly rated for jazz. Trinity has done a lot of work developing their jazz syllabus and with Simon Purcell as the new Head of Jazz (I think maybe a year or so ago) coming over from Guildhall it should be catching up fast. When deciding on the best place to do a jazz degree, as well as the reputation of the conservatoire, it's worth considering what live jazz venues are available to a] listen to jazz of a variety of types and b] for jam sessions - an important part of a young musician's development. London can't be beaten for that in the UK(imo)!

Berklee certainly has a formiddable reputation, I would think it's very competitive to get in there. I have heard people OK expressing opinions that whilst Berklee is undeniably a fabulous place to study jazz it does have a tendency to churn out "identikit" musicians whereas there is more emphasis on individuality in the UK.

Thanks for all your replies - it's really interesting to hear a range of views.

TSAX, your comment about opportunities to listen & perform is an important consideration. The change in leadership at Trinity sounds like a sign of improvement, although on the downside I've heard that Trinity is somewhat disorganised.

Does anyone know how many jazz students RAM and Guildhall take each year - the RAM prospectus talks about one ensemble, which could be quite restrictive. One of the students who ended up at Berklee was turned down by Guildhall - apparently they only take "one drummer a year" (could have been an excuse of course!). I guess consultation lessons would be the best way to find out how far away he is from the required standard?

Any views on how competitive jazz courses are - I know that Birmingham have more auditions scheduled for April, which is a bit surprising given the October CUKAS deadline.

I'd also be interested if there are opinions on Birmingham and RWCMD.

Thanks again for your help.

To be honest I don't know very much more than what I've already posted (which is mostly impressions and hearsay). I've never been down the conservatoire route, nor am I ever likely to. Consultation lessons do sound like a good way to go. You sometimes find the same teacher at more than one conservatoire e.g. Mike Outram teaches jazz guitar at RAM and Trinity, so would have a perspective on both.

TSax, thanks for your input.

I know these things can be incredibly subjective - there's no one place that's right for everyone. But it's still interesting to hear different people's views, even if they are not based on first hand experience.

As for the whole conservatoire + jazz thing, I guess most of the greats never went near a music school. I hate to think how many lessons you could buy with the tutition fees and living costs. Still, as Violinia has said, it does give you the opportunity to play with different people and develop your own 'voice'. Not to mention the whole being a student rite of passage!

Hey,

There are many Universities in the United States and Canada that you may consider checking out. Not all of them accept just a few students per year if you can get an audition, application, in early enough. I'd recommend the uni I went to but I honestly couldn't garauntee the quality of the education you would receive as some professors have since retired. However, if you are looking for a B Mus in Jazz, there are many many places in North America.


St. Francis Xavier University (where I went)
McGill University
Carleton University
University of Toronto
University of Victoria
Eastman School of Music
New England Conservatory
University of Texas
University of North Texas
California Institute of the Arts (Cal Arts)

This is all i can think of at the moment. Hopefully you will find it valuable.

Dont underestimate Trinity it is coming on leaps and bounds! One lad I know has just started there and has nothing but great stuff to say about the course. I have also attended a few of the student gigs and been quite impressed.

There is also Middlesex University - not a conservatoire, but an excellent Jazz course. I know a steady steam of lads who have gone there these past five years. Its close enough to the edge of London to be in London. You cant beat London for the opportunity to play out and check out a host of jazz venues and meet like minded people. Eg, the Jazz Cafe has jam sessions on Sunday for any musician who turns up with an Instrument so does the Spice Jazz.

The RAM holds regular Jazz gigs showcasing their students on Tudesdays evenings at the Marlybone site - I find the atmosphere all 'wrong'. I need a dark smoky pit of an environment (my age) but the kids are terrific! This is open to the public, check it out.

Leeds College of Music is highly rated. It is doing (for the first time) a summer residential jazz course for young people age 13 - 18. Not sure of the closing date but its on jazzservice.org.uk, an excellent opportunity to check of the facilities and staff.

With Berklee in Boston, you would have to consider the 1) audition (none take place in the England, nearest venues are Ireland & Paris) and 2) funding, but yes it does have a formidable reputation.

Thanks for all your replies. Sounds like Trinity is worth adding to the list.

The cost of studying at Berlee or anywhere else in the US is certainly daunting.

Of course, applying is one thing and getting in is something else....

Hi, I'm new to the forums having read them for quite a while. My son has a place on the jazz course at the RAM for September so we have just been through all of this! When deciding where to apply he went on the advice of a lot of working jazz musicians - consultation lessons gave us a pretty good idea that he was of the required standard for RAM and Guildhall, both of which accepted him. The reputation of Trinity is really on the up, and Birmingham,Leeds, Middlesex would have been in our next band for applications. I know that the advice he would give is to go for consultation lessons and ask for an honest opinion, and get as much performing experience as possible - he has been extremely fortunate from this point of view.
Feel free to PM me if you have any questions, or want a link to his playing to get an idea of the standard that is wanted, at least in London - he is working with other students who start college in Sept - one at Guildhall, the other at Trinity.

Hi everyone

I'm a trumpeter and in my first year at college. I'm looking ahead to universities at the moment. I've ordered prospectuses from different uni's which do the jazz courses. I liked the look of Middlesex but was wondering if the course wouldn't be as good seeing as it is not a music college like RSM or Trinity.

Anyone got any thoughts?

Hi. My son's friend is in his first year at Middlesex studying jazz trumpet. I might be able to put you in touch. Which part of Hampshire are you from (in general terms) because if your in this area (NE Hampshire) you may have come across him already!

I'm guessing that in a sense for jazz whether it's a music college or not is not as big a deal - because what you want is somewhere steeped in jazz, just as the music colleges are steeped in classical music. So while I understand several of the music colleges do jazz, it might not be automatic that they are better (and if you like the look of another course, it's probably worth investigating anyway).

Thanks for getting back

I'm in North-East Hants. About 30 minutes from Portsmouth and 25 minutes from Guildford. I live in the Liss, Haslemere, Petersfield area.

i think finding somewhere that's right for you is the most important thing. We went to the Trinity open day the other week and my son decided it wasn't for him. The atmosphere was not what he was looking for, but for others it might be fine.

One of the earlier posts recommended Middlesex, so it's definitely worth considering. Also many of the principal study teachers crop up on the staff lists of more than one conservatoire/uni - you'd have to check whether this applies for trumpet.

One difference between conservatoires and unis is the balance between performance and more academic work - perhaps 70:30 at conservatoires. from memory, and the prospectus isn't very detailed on the jazz course, there seems to be less at middlesex. i'd certainly ask how many hours one-to-one teaching you'd get a year.

Blates Leeds and Royal Northern Colleges of Music are the places to go for jazz.

Royal Northern does not yet have a dedicated jazz course - you join the regular BMus and can take certain jazz 'electives' - same at RCM.

There is no right place to go - you have to be happy with the atmosphere/teachers/course etc. Consultation lessons and open days are a great way to suss some of this out.

I've never heard of consultation lessons before. Can you explain what they are all about?

If you contact the relevant department at the college in question you can arrange a lesson with either the head of department or one of the instrument specialists. My son paid £30 an hour last September before auditions in the December (cheaper than the usual London professor rate). They give you an idea of whether or not you are the expected standard.

Thanks for your help!

Another vote for Leeds! I know someone who completed a jazz piano degree and he's amazing! Plays saxophone and has his own jazz band. Good luck

Thanks to everyone for all their helpful views and advice. I thought I'd add a postscript to this thread.

We've now attended open days at Trinity, Birmingham, RWCMD & LCM (Guildhall is in November and RAM haven't announced their date yet). Although it's been a time consuming and expensive process, it's been a great opportunity to learn more about the courses, to hear some current students play and get a feel for the atmosphere and environment. From our point of view, they have different advantages and disadvantages - it's all about finding the place that suits you best (and will offer you a place!).

My son's tendinitis has recurred, so he's taking the summer off and has had to defer consultation lessons until later in the year. He is also starting at The Sage weekend school in September.

So, taking everything into account, he's decided to apply in 2008 instead. He's been advised that he would then be ready to have a crack at the London colleges. We will also probably look at some of the European conservatoires that offer jazz such as Copenhagen, Amsterdam and The Hague.

Good luck to anyone applying this autumn.