Thanks.



The pieces are all good enough. I have a habit of not concentrating on the score while playing and then playing some wrong notes because of it, so I realy need to learn the mistakey bits off by heart lol It's not too bad.



I'm doing it with trinity, so it's less scales (but i practice all the normal scales and arpeggios anyway. it takes less than 10 minutes to go thorough all the keys). Bb minor, B major and Cminor(arpeggio) can be a bit squeaky with a hard/unresponsive reed and fingers that can't use the banana key properly... Only Bb minor is on the syllabus though. The chromatic is VERY out of tune on the top E and Eb coming back, but oh well...


The audition piece is good. Again, i need to memorize the tricky bits, because I can't concentrate on the score at those bits now I know the piece well


I don't know how many other Oboes are auditioning for CYO thogh and there's already 2 grade 8 (standard) oboists in the orchestra already

I just need a good reed for the audition/grade7

Isn't this always the problem

Daughter has been playing the Neilson Fantasy Piece 1 (I think) she's having problems with tuning on some of the high notes. It isn't all the time and sometimes in different places. Last night I recorded her playing, no backing track just her and the budgies (who can't keep quiet). We listened to it back and she marked off on the music where the problems were. This really helped as when she played it again she controlled the whole thing much better and it was a lot more tuneful.

It's normal for her not to be able to hear tuning problems until she knows the piece really well, she's not been playing this one too long and has really worked on it this week. Listening to the piece back really helped. We'll definately do this again when she's playing a piece well but needs to improve elements of it.

My reeds were perfect again today and my little solos in my orchestra pieces went very well this evening. Just hoping my reeds will give a repeat performance on sunday.

Praying the weather doesn't change!!!

What is the main factor in how good an oboe sounds? Is it the reed, the oboe or the player? The principal oboist in our symphony orchestra went to Chethams and has the most amazing sound I have ever heard for an oboe!

They're both very important - but a good player can make a bad reed sound passable, a bad player will always sound bad even with the best equipment. A bad reed can ruin your intonation but only if you have accurate intonation to ruin. On the other hand to really get good it helps to have a decent set-up so you can hear where your limitations are, if you're limited by your equipment then it's much harder to improve.

Why do you need the banana key???

In Bb minor and I sometimes use it when I could use other keys (i don't know why)



I thought you had to use the banana key in Bb minor? It's Bb to C and then C#.

But say the same oboe player plays many different set ups, what is the main factor which accounts for the change in sound?

2 Oboes never realy have the exact same sound. Even in the same model, a slight difference in can make it have a different sound, and different models have very different bores even though the basic shape is the same. and the wood used makes a differnece. And the reeds change the sound a lot as well.

There are so many influences which go towards the tone of any Oboist...yes the instrument is very important, the better they are the smoother they tend to be but every Oboe is unique. The reed is probably the most helpful or damaging influence on the tone, a bad reed is awful to work with and though a good player will make a reasonable sound they will not be at their best so a good reed makes it all much easier to play beautifully. The mouth is the biggest influence on the tone, a nice relaxed embochure helps to give a nice rounded tone, tension in the lips will alter the sound dramatically and biting down is the worst thing you can do....Yes different set ups will alter some notes, for example the conservatoire 1st octave C is very open and can glare a bit so we learn to step back off it to blend it in yet the thumbplate 1st octave C is much nicer, Bb is a bit of a horor on the thumbplate I gather yet quite the reverse on the conservatoire. I play on a conservatoire system always have I cannot get on with a thumplate as I have never had to use one and when I try I get very muddled. There is also the Automatic system I think its called the Prestini system which is popular in Japan but I have never played on so cannot comment on it...

The bottom line is get the best instrument you can and work hard to make the most beautiful sound you can. Most importantly LISTEN to yourself and alter/adjust the embochure slightly to change what you hear if you don't like it......

Andrew

My oboe teacher said it was better to slide than to use the banana key (rub your little finger on the side of your nose first).
He seems to loahe the banana key with a vengeance and claims that in his whole professional career he has only ever used it once in one piece.

What is the banana key? *hides*

Not all oboes have them. It's a banana shaped key next to the bottom D key. You use it by stretching your third finger across to hold down both the D key and the banana key and this gives you bottom C.

in that case I would say the reed - different shapes and depths of scrape can make a big difference, though not necessarily the same difference for each player

[quote name='des' date='May 30 2008, 12:33 PM' post='703849']
[quote name='sags_3' post='703793' date='May 30 2008, 09:15 AM']
What is the main factor in how good an oboe sounds? Is it the reed, the oboe or the player? The principal oboist in our symphony orchestra went to Chethams and has the most amazing sound I have ever heard for an oboe!
[/quote]

They're both very important - but a good player can make a bad reed sound passable, a bad player will always sound bad even with the best equipment. A bad reed can ruin your intonation but only if you have accurate intonation to ruin. On the other hand to really get good it helps to have a decent set-up so you can hear where your limitations are, if you're limited by your equipment then it's much harder to improve. [/quote]

But say the same oboe player plays many different set ups, what is the main factor which accounts for the change in sound?
[/quote]

in that case I would say the reed - different shapes and depths of scrape can make a big difference, though not necessarily the same difference for each player. Andrew is right about the instruments, no two combinations of oboe and player will sound the same. as for dodgy notes - C# is pretty dreadful on mine!

Much easier than trying to get your third finger over to the banana key.

(Technically it's Bb-C-Db )



I use it occasionally in certain pieces where it's easier. However, since changing my oboe 6 months ago, my new oboe's banana key is much further away from the D key. So I have to stretch even further and it's even more difficult!



Gah - tell me about it.

And it seems every solo I have to play in my orchestra recently has a prominent C# in it.

Des, what make do you play, out of interest? I thought the C# on my old Loree was bad, but my new Marigaux is even worse.

From what I can tell you and from what I have heard from many of my Oboe friends C# is pretty ghastly on most Oboes, it's a duff note and we have to acommodate it somehow...Both my Loree's have had dicey C#'s and every Oboe I have ever had a blow on had issues with that note...I honestly don't believe any of the makers have truely nailed it, it's just one of those things...

Andrew

I've never yet played an oboe with a really decent C#. Even if the tuning is right, it always sounds as though the note is being played through a muffler. Horrid.

And it's possible to end up altering the sound of an oboe permanently, with too much vigorous use of a pull-through or even a mop. Ramming stuff forcefully into the bore of your oboe, or tugging tight pull-throughs through the top joint can actually enlarge the bore over time and therefore alter the tone and most importantly, the tuning.

Personally, I never pull a pull-through right through the top joint. I pull it until there's some gentle resistance, then stop and pull it back the other way, twisiting it gently at the same time. Do this a couple of time and the bore will be wiped dry without the risk of long term damage.

All this about oboes becoming 'blown out', is an old wives tale. It's more about players who've ripped pull-throughs through the top joint and altered the characteristics of the instrument over many years.

Speaking of instrument maintenance (I don't pull it all the way through the top joint either) does anyone else find that their cor anglais is a lot easier to knock - you wouldn't believe i'm not a perticularly clumsy person - i've never knocked my oboe and i take special care to not knock my cor but it just always catches on things - nothing you can see but when you've paid all that money you want to keep it in tip top condition. perhaps its cos its bigger i don't know

How much time are we talking about here? A few years or fifty?

I find it slightly hard to believe to be honest - wood is pretty hard stuff. Is a bit of silk rubbing next to it really going to knock off lots of it? If so, surely only in such miniscule amounts that it would take hundreds of years to make a difference?

But I'm no materials scientist, so I wait to be contradicted...

What pieces did you decide on for the exam/audtion in the end?

Exam is Sammartini, Schumann no3 and Bach study no70 and audition is Marcello 1st movt

i'm on a Howarth S20 which i've had for 7 years, i'm upgrading next month

What do you have in mind to try oboe wise Des ?

Well i'm going to london to try out as many as I can, obviously i'm going to howarths, and wherever else i can find new oboes. Where would you guys recommend?

Howarths Howarths HOWARTHS...they pretty much cover the gamut Oboe wise, there is also Crowthers in Canterbury who are the main Loree supplier and also carry I imagine the other major makers...but if you want to stick with a Howarth there really is only one place to go...

Good luck let us know what you find and settle on...

Andrew

Woo!!! My oboe reed behaved for a whole concert - woo!

I'm not too bothered about sticking with Howarth - my cor is a Marigaux and its lovely. I just want to try as wide a range a possible really. I'm quite keen to try some open hole ones, theres more potential for extended techniques there - glisses and microtones especially i think. Is Canterbury near london? my geography is pretty appalling..

Morning All,

Des, Crowthers of Canterbury is in Kent not far from London either on the train or a car ride of about an hour...if you visit the website here http://www.crowthersofcanterbury.co.uk/ this may have a map or directions for you should you decide to go.

As for Open holes instead of covered, yes you are quite correct they do have a different feel and sound, much warmer and I imagine you can do allsorts of different effects with the less cumberson and therefore less ridgid keywork. I have a great friend who plays on an open hole Howarth he loves it and wouldn't give a covered holed Oboe house room...he is always very rude about my full Gillet/conservatoire Loree refereing to it as a French Fence Post.. which always makes us laugh.

I don't know how many or how easily you will find an open holed instrument...I think you may have some luck at Howarths on their second hand list. I am not sure if they still make them AmandaL will know she's a big Howarth fan...

Good luck please let us know what you find...

Andrew

I will indeed consult someone as to how much wood could possibly be removed each time. Although silk is soft, it's the tightness of the fit that would cause damage. One of the most regular jobs Howarth oboe repairers get is the extraction of stuck silk swabs from oboe top joints - it's a painstaking job involving having to cut the swab out of the joint, very slowly and in tiny bits. Get one jammed in there two or three times and you'd be surprised how much deformation this could cause long term.

The internal dimensions of a woodwind instrument are machined to incredibly small tolerences. Removing just a few extra micrometres (a micrometre being just 1x10^-3, or one thousandth of a millimetre!) could alter the tone and tuning considerably. It's an amount that wouldn't be visible as more than a bit of dust, but it makes a difference.

Strictly speaking, oboes apparently blow out after about 40 years of daily use, but much of that is down to pull-throughs wearing the wood away. A safe alternative to pull-throughs or mops? How about a bit of compressed air - or dry nitrogen would probably be best. It would sure clear the water from those octave keys!

Even a steel bar compresses and bends slightly when you lean on it, although only very sensitive electronic equipment would be able to detect and show what's happening. Wood, with its grain, will most defintely become compressed or worn with repeated friction.

The other thing that comes to mind in so called 'blown out' oboes - the constant expansion and contraction of the wood with playing and even the ambient humidity. Even the hardest of woods can only take so much of this. The quality and density of the grain being a big factor in the process.

Although one teeny warning about Howarths - they do have a good range in stock, but that doesn't mean they have absolutely everything on the day you go there. When I went last November, for instance, they didn't have any thumbplate Lorees in, and there was something else they were quite short of too (I forget what). This was despite me asking in advance whether I could go in that day, and them saying 'oh yes, we have loads in stock at the moment'.

But it's still probably the best place in the country. (Though I've never been to Crowthers, maybe he can give them a run for their money.)

Yes I agree that it's best to phone and have Howarth check their stock first. Oboe contacts are, Emma Gourlay and Michael Britten.

Howarth is the nemesis of my bank account. I should either be issued with shares in the place, or be banned from there altogether.

Would recommend Crowther's, brought my Cabart from them last year and they were soooo helpful!!

I've got a very good reed which I want to use for the audition (14th!) I have 4 other of the same make (winfeild mh. the shop didn't know if it's standard or not. it only sais 'mh' on the cork where it sais 's mh' on the others) but I don't know if the quality is the same



I have 2 softish reeds to practice with (not in good condition but very good to play) and 4 other reeds which I don't want to use yet.

Do I
1) play a bit each day on the good reed because the reed I practice with is softish
2) don't touch it incase I break it - i'm VERY clumsy so my reeds don't last too long
3) play it the day before audition and the audition

Who knows, they'll do what they feel like on the day anyway

Seriously: if I have a reed I really like, I generally don't play on it at all until the day before or of the concert, when I'll play on it for an hour or so to check it's still behaving. Needless to say, have at least one or two back-ups...

I hate reeds at this time of year - they change daily with the weather. We have been having unseasonably damp weather and the reeds have lost all their crispness. My teacher is very reluctant to do anything to them because as soon as we get our usual anti-cyclonic summer weather they will change completely in the other direction. The only problem is this year is that after about six weeks of the first signs of summer it still hasn't arrived.


I always find that on the day of the concert none of my reeds work And when my teacher does a last minute adjustement the reed then doesn't work the following day. I have concluded that nerves must totally change the way I play and have become rather reluctant to "waste" my favourite reed on a concert.

Well, after about two years of umming and ahhing, I've finally made a decision and am going to go back to having some oboe lessons (after a gap of only 15 years!). I've just found a teacher this afternoon - so now I am quite scared!

Guess I'd better do some practice, then...

Good luck!! Hope it works out for you.

Go for it Claire, my playing has improved out of all recognition since I started having lessons again. I'm playing things now that I never dreamt of tackling two years ago.

I've got the date for my grade 7 now!!!



it's on the 24th It doesn't clash with the history mocks... don't know when the other subjects are yet.

I've got a physics GCSE module tomorow (real one ) so i'll be tired for practice...
and I NEED TO!!! for the audition

Am wondering why this year I keep bringing in slow movements of Sonatas that I would like to learn and end up working on the fast movements instead.

I am currently working on the second movement of the Vivaldi C minor sonata which has some positively evil fingering in it when played at any speed.

Yes, absolutely right! I do possess one oboe swab that goes through the whole instrument very nicely, but I also have a Rigoutat Riec that came with a swab for each joint. Although the oboe is fantastic, the swabs are horrible and a load of junk. I learned very quickly that trying to pull the upper joint swab through would probably scratch the bore.




Join the club! The 'blown out' phenomenon fascinates me. As far as I can see, it falls in the category of 'mobile phones can fry eggs' , telepathy, and other things that we've heard and wondered about, but for which we have never seen any real evidence.

I've been reading the www.woodwind boards for years and occassionally the 'blown out' topic gets resurrected but soon disappears when people ask for rational explanations, definitions or.. horror of horrors...real proof.

Steve

One of those questions that I should have asked in my lesson but didn't realise I needed to ask until I got home and started practising.

First of all I'm assuming that the trill fingering for first octave Eb/F means fingering Eb with the first octave key and moving my middle finger. (Is this right?)

Second question: I want to start the trill with a slightly longer F. Given that the preceeding note is also an Eb, should I finger the F correctly (ie without the Eb key)?

Third question: Should I remove the octave key for the final Eb of the trill which I also hold a little longer?

(If anyone's interested it's the Allegro 2nd movement of Vivaldi's C minor oboe sonata).

Finally, any tips for trilling with your little finger? My teacher said to keep the finger completely flat, to move it from the base where it joins the hand and to concentrate on lifting it up rather than putting it down. However, I am still finding that it very rapidly seems to get "stuck" and I can't trill for as long as I would like.

yes, yes and yes.

2nd question: if you've got a long F so don't need to use a fork, that would be even better.
3rd question: depending on your oboe, you might be able to get away with leaving the octave key on. (Depending on what happens next in the music.)



Hmm. Never had a problem with it myself, it just happens. Maybe you're too tense?

Audition was today



it went all right
Marcello wasn't bad but wasn't as good as it could have been

Eb mojor good. Bb harmonic minor squeaked a little bit on the Db-Eb change. Chromatic was a bit out of tune, Dom 7th was good

Sight reading wasn't too bad, but I did make a mistake on some easy rythems on both pieces...

Howarths have some nive sounding open holes on their second hand list - much cheaper than their second hand closed holes though, does this mean that no-one wants the open ones or are they just not as good?
Theres also a second hand oboe d'amore!! which i really shouldn't buy...... but i really want to

I haven't got a long F, so it will have to be a fork. (Not that I mind the forked fingering, having played recorders for years).

It's a D, so I suppose it makes sense to take it off.


My teacher said I was trying to trill like a pianist with my finger slightly bent. So you may be right, concentrating on changing the way I position my finger is probably making me tense up.



How long do you have to wait to find out if you have got in?

A few days. Wednesday or so. Not too long...

Hello Des,

Well I have just had a long conversation with a good friend of mine who plays professionally ( an ex pupil of Goosens and Terrence Mcdonagh), he plays an open hole system, he says it's horses for courses really, the open hole has a warmer softer sounding yet no less powerful projection wise than a full Gillet system. It's simply a case of what we get used to. His wife, another professional player uses a ful Gillet and prefers this system so its just a case of what we get used to. The reason the price is cheaper for second hand open holed systems is simply, Supply and Demand. Not so many people play in open holed systems the major preference being for Gillet systems hence the asking price for open holes is considerably lower...If you like the open hole system then you are in luck...

Let us know what you find..

good luck

Andrew

Also Good luck to Lizbun, hope the audition went well...