Yay!

The ornamental oboe book's in stock in CityMusic now, so going to get it today or tomorrow.





The Albinoni concerto hasn't been dispatched yet It said 2-5 weeks, so I can't complain...

Just looked at all three of my oboes, and only this one from john packer has the semi automatic keywork.

My other is a student buffet, and the other is my old rudal carte.

Finally for you! How long has that been? Months?

I think it's scince beggining/middle of July...

2 months. Sheeesh. Service these days.

I got it at last.



Played a few tunes from it.

I can't believe that the grade 7 pieces are grade 7. The notes are pretty sight-readable if the breathing and tounguing don't have to be perfect firsh time...

The sycopation for grade 6 is nice I might practice that like mad so it's ready for the workshop...

I would sincerly reccomend that you try ordering your music from June Emerson, they have always been very good and very quick...

I will next time.



Ordering from CityMusic in truro is quick, but it depends on the piece...

I'm glad you've finally got your ornamental oboes...I've never really looked at it - is it a collection of pieces??
I can definitely second Andrew's recommendation of June Emerson. They have a website so you can order that way. I recently had some music within 2 days from them (ok, I only live 40 miles away...but the post is still slow sometimes.)

ornamental oboe is a book of 35 exersizes of about grade 5-7 standard.



It's my 2nd book... The hinke method is my first.

Liz, I hope you enjoy it...when I finished Hinke, my teacher then put me onto Ferling's 48 studies. Terrifying. I didn't do much with them then, but when I started playing again my new teacher seized on it with delight and has been torturing me with a fast and slow study each month...having said that, they've really been good for my standard of playing. I now have new music (bits of Bach) and he has promised that he will slow down on the Ferling. (I'm now in the middle of the book, and I honestly thought I would never get that far through it!)

Enjoy Ornamental Oboes, it sounds like it is somewhere between Hinke and Ferling. I actually quite enjoy playing studies as I like the challenge of working them out...yes I'm a masochist, but not so much as to enjoy scales.

At least Ornamental Oboes and the Ferling have less than 50 studies in them....



The Hinke would take a VERY log time to complete if I played all of them. One of the Hinke studies helped me learn the technique of sight-reading chords/arpeggios I think.

Goodness me which Ornamental oboes pieces are Grade 7?!

Miniture P8 and Mini concert P20 (you choose between the two) for the Trinity sylabus, and Chromatic study P28 for the lcm sylabus




Cna someone tell me how to get all the Top notes from C# in tune? It's a problem, because it's out of tune most of the time.

Gosh I was expecting more the Scala Polka p14 and the Spitzentanz p27, but anyway. Miniature and mini concert I can understand. Chromatic study I can sight read pretty well. Weird.

And I can't get top c# in tune. So don't worry I think!

I had a look, and both look like grade 7...

It would be proof the my sight-reading has improved a lot if I can play the Scala Polka.
Don't have the Oboe out at the moment though.....


hinke studys No26 and No27 on P16 are quite challenging too.

Okey dokey.

What else are you working on at the moment?

I'm doing........



Two fantasy pieces - Nielsen
Random things from Ornamental oboes, but 'syncopation' is priority
hinke study no26 p16
hinke study no10 p22 - a killer for breathing, maybe because the rythem and tune makes 3 lots of 20 seconds seem endless.


And these are what I sometimes play for fun.
three old french dances - Marias
Gabriel's Oboe
Corelli-Barbirolli concerto

I still have a tendancy to look at oboe pieces and think, "hmmm, not too difficult", but always forget that I'm looking at them through violinists eyes. Playing them on the oboe always proves a tad more difficult......

Resist the temptation to bite on the reed and use lots of breath pressure instead.

Lots of octave jumps; lower octave, top octave, lower octave slurred then when you can do this in tune start with the top octave note. Fingering is awkward for this so it takes a lot of perserverance.

Sing a really high note in your head as you play. (It sounds stupid but it does work). My teacher got me to do an exercise so I could feel the different ways you can open your throat and vary your mouth shape in different octaves. I'm not sure that I can describe it but will try; put your hand round your throat, just under your chin and press firmly with your fingers and thumb; sing a low note, a mid note and a high note - you should feel something inside your throat move - it should move in the same way when you play the oboe. (As an aside, no way could I see a teacher in England doing this as initially my teacher got me to put my hand round his throat so I could feel what it was supposed to be like).

[
Cna someone tell me how to get all the Top notes from C# in tune? It's a problem, because it's out of tune most of the time.
[/quote]

Let me know how to do this...I can't play them in tune either. I just assume that it'll come with better embouchure and abdominal control...but I can now play a top F sharp which I was really struggling with a little while ago, but that depends on the reed, with some it's easier than with others.

mmm you could try changing your fingering if you're consistently out of tune? (i.e. ALWAYS sharp on a D, or ALWAYS flat on a C#)

there are 'short' fingerings and 'long fingerings' and your oboe will probably be better suited to one or the other. i use short ones )

also, if you're sharp, you could try putting down some of your right-hand fingers (c-key, first finger, 3rd finger), or if you're flat you could try taking some off (if you have any on in the first place!)

I hope you will find these fingerings useful. These have worked for me over the years:

C#
0 x x | x 0 0 C

I have seen some UK charts with

0 x x | x 0 x C#

I haven't used this before and cannot comment on it

D
(1/2) x x | 0 (x) 0 C

Add the r.h. middle finger only if D is too sharp. Try half hole or finger off for l.h. 1st finger -- different oboes work differently

Eb
I am not able to share because I am playing on a full-automatic octave

E
3rd oct 1/2 x x G# | 0 x x Eb

F
3rd oct 1/2 x 0 G# | 0 x x Eb

(for all of the above: with the thumbplate system, the thumbplate should be held down)

If the 3rd oct key is not available, please use the 1st oct instead

Would these be the fingerings you are using?

I'm NEALY out of the habit of bitig now....(I think I am anyway)



I'll have to experiment with the throat thing. Would pressure alone make it move?



I think it's out of tune becausee I use the fingerings my teacher tought me for my first Oboe, which is very different to the one which I upgraded to.





I'll ask my teacher on my first lesson.

It is not the breath pressure that makes it move, it really is the way you open your throat that changes. According to my teacher, advanced players to this automatically and this exercise is just a way of helping yourself to feel what you are supposed to be doing.



What is different about the two oboes (apart from, extra trill keys)?

I use the fingers that Wai Kit Leung has given.
For Eb I use
1/2 x x B o x x

One thing I did notice on your videos (which wouldn't effect C# but would effect the higher notes) was that you take your left-hand first finger off instead of half-holing for the middle (two octaves above middle C) C#, D and Eb.

I also take off my LH index finger rather than half-holing. I think I must try half-holing on the high notes...but I'm so used to taking off my index finger I think that it will be tricky to change now. I have a lesson on Tuesday so I'll ask my teacher. Actually my high notes are getting much better as my breathing and embouchure get stronger.
Keri, thanks for the advice not to bite the reed, I haven't been doing this, but using more breath pressure instead, but was wondering if I was doing it wrong although my teacher hadn't corrected me...

Does your teacher not insist on half-holing? There is a definite difference in intonation (even in the middle register) if you take your finger right off instead of half-holing. My teacher is very strict about half-holing properly. The only time (so far) when he has told me it is permissible to lift the finger right off is when you want to slur on a decresendo from middle D to bottom D but even then he told me to play the D with the half-hole and to take the finger off only the fraction of the second before I put it back on fully to play the bottom D.

I was starting to wonder if maybe you do things differently with a thumbplate system oboe but I have just checked in Leon Goossens' Guide to the Oboe and he talks about half-holing; on another oboe forum there is a whole discussion about whether it is better to slide or roll when you want to open the half-hole.

My teacher personaly does half-holing when she playes, but isn't pushy about me doing it.
She just sais 'slide it or lift it'
I just lift it up. A waste of that extra bit of metal realy lol

I'll try it and see which one is better...

I usually lift my finger, but if I think about it then I do try to half hole.

The half-hole seemes to make the high notes more in-tune than lifting it up.

I posted the half-hole question on a specialist oboe forum. The first reply was from an American who (like me) had never heard of lifting the finger. One of the more interesting replies was from someone who works for Howarth's who said that in the UK the half-hole plate is often screwed down a lot tighter than it would be in Europe or the USA and because the key hardly opens it is possible to lift the finger rather than use the half-hole. He also said that it depends on the size of the half-hole itself and that most professionals will adjust the height of the key to suit their own particular preferences.

Other posters also suggested that there may be an intonation problem because the half-hole has got partially blocked.

I tried half-holing today...I'm so unused to doing this that it was totally frustrating. It did make the higher notes marginally more in tune, but not by much. I can't say I noticed much difference in the middle register. I'll ask my teacher on Tuesday, but last time he noticed I was lifting rather than half-holing, he didn't seem too bothered. In my AB scales book, they mention half-holing but say it's really a matter of preference.
I didn't know about the difference in European/UK/US oboes, but certainly my half-hole plate/key barely opens!

I lift on D, but half hole the C#... ask me not why. Perhaps it's down the playing the flute as well? Intonation wise, it makes no difference on my oboe

I decided that I'll lift the finger on the C# for the C# minor arpeggio...

I half hole - I also use it on my clarinet when I want a less strident tone

Anybody else got any different topics? I'm kinda waiting to move on from this as I'm totally confused by it.

Had my first oboe lesson back to school today! Yay!

Did it go well?

Tell us how it went!





My first lesson was cut down to 20 mins because of the year 7s giving in forms to start lessons and my teacher signing them.



I'm going to be in the St.Austell festival playing 'Romance' my nielsen. Going to be sometime in November/December...
My violin teacher will most cirtanly put me in the same festival, and I'll probably be in it for Piano too. Not good on how much school I might miss. why can't the kids be after school or saturday.

I had my very first oboe pupil on monday. He was a 1st year so very sweet. Kept appologizing and saying he was embarassed because he was sounding terrible.

It was quite painful to listen to but I did my best not to cringe and we made progress - yay!

I've decided to take the oboe more serious again and I've joined a windorchestra. I had my first rehearsal and lesson yesterday and it was great! Has anyone else started with a new orchestra or group?

I've got my first oboe lesson after a ten week break on Wednesday and am (quite ridiculous I know) starting to feel nervous. I can't decide whether I should start by listing everything I think is wrong with the pieces I have been working on over the summer (there are a number of things that I know I want to change but don't know how to technically) or whether I should just play them and wait for comments.

Aww thats very sweet, tell him (and yourself) not to worry about the tone, that will come given time...sadly the Oboe is tricky, the tone issue is a huge deal...lots of long notes, listening all the time will soon put that to rights...and good Reeds are Vital!!!!!

Good luck with him Malone...the cringing will pass very soon...

Andrew




Keri, I would busk it and see...its probably not half as big an issue as you think, your teacher will put the technical questions in order so just go and have a good play and enjoy it, catch up with the news and relax...first lessons always seem a bit strange after a break...a bit like going back to school after the holidays...

Regards

Andrew

I'd agree with Andrew - your teacher knows you well enough to realise that you WILL have a clue what's not going right, and I don't think that it's probably helpful to go in apologising for yourself before you even start. Just go for it. You can always say afterwards, "I need specific help with this, that and the other".

Strangely enough I hadn't thought of saying what I think is wrong with things as apologising but after reflecting on what you have said I have come to the conclusion that it probably does come across like that. (Having just remembered that my teacher does say rather too often that if I would only believe in myself a little more it would solve a lot of my so-called technical problems). So, I shall try thinking "light and bouncy and lots of air" and see if that is enough to make the first movement of the Bach concerto sound the way I would like it to.

I'm finally in the search for a new Oboe and i've got 2 on loan at the moment. What sort of things should you check for when buying a second hand Oboe?

I can sympathise because I do the same kind of thing - it's SO much easier to see it for someone else

There's a passage in a John Holt book about it - when I am less totally exhausted I'll try and find it and see if it's of any value. Remind me

It's maddening isn't it? I have great trouble playing loudly and yet when I listen to my daughter playing I immediately think if only she played the forte passages a little louder it would be so much easier for her to do a decrescendo.

Keri
I hope your lesson goes well, you're never going to play the pieces perfectly so just try and relax and go for it...light and airy sounds good to me.
My teacher is for ever telling just to relax, drop my shoulders and try to keep everything as open as possible so that the breath can flow...!!! "I want to hear nice smooth legato playing...don't withdraw the breath..."
Finally I can now hear what he wants, I just wish that I could do it for more than 2 or 3 bars at a time.

Hello Laura,....there sits the $million question, what to look for???

This is a huge subject so where to start?.....Firstly, what system are you playing, thumplate or conservatoire? that should be the easy part.....stick with what you know...

I would strongly advise getting a full Gillet system or dual system with or without thumbplate dependent on what you have already...The left hand F is vital and if you wish you can get a keywork that will descend to the low A, not vital but if it takes your fancy why not???

New or Secondhand???

This has been discussed at length before here on the Forum...New Oboes are lovely, all shiney and sparkly and exactly to your spec...downsides are blowing in, possible cracking, and to be frank the wood may well not be as good as some of the older instruments which have lovely and properly matured wood, less chances of cracking are a plus, all the hardwork is done for you, your Oboe is through its tricky years and ready to Blow/Go...If budget is a question then secondhand is a great way of getting a very good instrument for a fraction of the new price, if budget isnt an issue then go the whole hog and treat yourself, have whatever you like or what takes your fancy but be prepared to blow it in and not play for more than 20 minutes a day for the first three months, oil the bore once every month and keep the humidity right, even in the case...

Preferred Tone...

Loree, Marigaux, Rigoutat, Howarth, Buffet...which do you like, which sound sits well with you and your style of playing...as I don't know what you currently play I can only suggest that the Oboe you currently play will probably bear greatly on the tone you prefer...Lorees are known for the light silvery tone, not overly powerful but very refined, they sing, they really do, in 1992 I think they produced the Loree Royal which has thicker wood which in turn darkens the sound and increases the projection...Marigaux are slightly dark in tone and very beautiful, well made and very popular, my teacher plays Mairgaux and swears by them.Rigoutat are mainly played in France and have an excellent reputation, the sound is strong and they project well...Howarths are of course our most famous maker here in England, beautiful Instruments, the attention to detail and the quality are second to none, the sound is unique, they are played by many professionals here in the UK and overseas and are becoming increasingly more popular in the USA who are by reputation big Loree players along with Laubins and Hinikers, they also like Fox and Fossati, not overly common here and probably better suited to the American market and with a very distictive sound, again better suited to the American market... so buy the sound you like the best and which sits well with your embochure and the reeds you like. Just because one reed plays well on a Loree it doesn't follow that it will suit a Marigaux etc etc...

I would still advise you to buy the best you can afford, push the boat out and go for it, if you buy secondhand check for cracks and condition, always try to buy from a repuatble dealer, E-bay is risky...you just never know what your'e gonna get though plenty of very good instruments come via that method, many though are not as advertised...so you pays your money and you takes your chance...Caveat Emptor....buyer beware!!!

Good luck, I hope I have been able to give you some food for thought, if you require any more techincal advise I would reccomend that you call your local Oboe specialist dealer, try as many Oboes as you can and buy what you really love, not just like, don't settle for second best, if in doubt take your teacher along or get the Oboe on approval and try it for a week, most reputable dealers will allow this with secondhand Oboes though not new ones...

Can't think af anything else to add but I am sure someone will come up with something...sorry to have droned on...

Kindest regards

Andrew

Laura, are your oboes from a woodwind specialist shop? If they are, have they been serviced and do they come with any sort of guarantee? If the answer to both questions is yes, then you really only have to worry about whether you like the sound. Apart from what Andrew has said about the "typical" sound of the different makes, you need to think about consistency or tone and tuning over the whole instrument - conservatoire instruments, for example, often have a rather hollow sounding C an octave above middle C, my first oboe had an A two octaves above middle C which was slightly sharp (and my teacher confirmed it was the instrument, not me). Do try the oboes with several different reeds as a reed that really suits one oboe may not suit another.

If the oboes have not been serviced recently then it is much more complicated and ideally you should get them looked over by someone who knows what they are doing. Apart from cracks, which Andrew mentioned, you need to check that the pads and springs are in good condition and that all the keys seal properly. You need to check that the topjoint is completely airtight and that the bore is still straight. An oboe which needs some work done on it may still be a bargain but you need to bear in mind that a full service (including changing pads and tightening keywork) may cost you well over £400.