I have learnt this piece but having employed the many practising strategies and techniques that I know, I am having problems with the passage from bar 52-56 inclusive.

The problem comes mainly in the left hand and I find when playing at the correct tempo that in the G flat-A natural-B natural spread chord I will often miss the G flat and play and F or A flat and then a similar problem in the next bar coming from the bottom E flat (last half of the second beat) and then playing the next chord. I often miss the A flat at the bottom of this chord as well as missing the D flat in the same chord.

I felt were many issues when I learnt the piece such as distance between the hands and making connections between the notes that were being played in each hand as there are common links between the parts. I have also doubled up the E flat in the left hand to help with measuring the distance thinking that this was the problem but as soon as I take it away I am back to where I was before. The tempo increase that is indicated by Liszt doesn't help either!!

I have done many hours of eyes' shut practice and found with hands separately, I could play acurately with no problem (even with my eyes closed!) but when it comes to putting the hands together it becomes a problem. Even slow practice sometimes yields a less than satisfactory result. Sometimes I misplace notes in the right hand too probably for the same reasons as the left hand.

Perhaps someone has and idea that I haven't though of that would help me and I would be glad to know about it if you can help.

Thank you!

hi,

I think there are a number of solutions to this problem both in how you play up to speed and practise. Firstly, i strongly recommend you memorise this passage, the right hand jumps around octaves a large amount as well making it alost impossible to play without it being memorised. Secondly, check that you have fingering writtten in that works well and that you do the same thing consistently. Thirdly, practise incredibly fast movements to the chords in question but without playing the note. You should never try and play a chord until your hand is in place. Everytime you play it stop and look that you've moved to the right place before you play. Fourthly, try to analyse the harmony of the passage so you know in 53:2 that its a d flat chord in scond inversion for example. Fifthly, once all the practise is over, relax and enjoy the tenor melody,if this sings through the odd wrong chord probably wont matter too much.

Hopefully thats helpful.

Thanks for taking the time to write. The passage is memorised as I've played it so many times! I can play it with my eyes closed too, slowly of course but when it comes to the tempo increase it doesn't go too well. I've always been able to get over difficulties before but so far, I'm stumped with this one.

I'll persevere anyway.

Hi Hammerklavier,

I love this piece, haven't played it for a while.

The problem with playing anything hands separately at this advanced level is that the coordination of hands together is as much of, if not more of an issue. So the only way through this is to take it right back to very slow speed with the hands together but as pianodude says checking the chords are accurate as you go. The other thing I found playing this section was I needed a very specific arm movement to bring the LH up from that bottom Eflat, which needed coordinating with the RH slurs. I don't know if this will help but it was a arc from the Eflat my arm then almost came beyond the G flat of the chord structure and further in to the keys ready to lean in the C. (not sure if this makes sense)

Also, focus a specific time each day and get plenty of breaks, your brain needs time to process difficult sections.

I'm having a similar problem with the end of Chopins Barcarolle at the moment, could do with a couple of extra fingers on each hand.

Good luck

Thanks Digby for your advice. As with most of these problems, playing slowly isn't too bad. I think what happens is that there is a feeling of insecurity when the right hand is at it's highest point on the keyboard and the left hand is at its lowest. As you say, and I agree, it's a co-ordination issue. When I increase the tempo, I think there is a fear that wrong notes will be played partly because I cannot look at both hands at the same time at certain points in the passasge.

I thought being able to play it eyes shut very slowly would solve it but it hasn't so it must be that I'm missing a step out.

As you say, slow practice and I think this is the name of the game.

Thnaks again for your input.

Perhaps you nearly had the answer there but not quite - without being anywhere near the piano, try to visualise yourself playing that section, preferably up to speed but if not that at least quite close to it. You'll probably be able to "see" where your fingers should be for most of it, and if there's a bit where you can't do this, that's the bit that you haven't learned yet, so check it and then include it in your visualisation. Once you can do that, you'll then be able to play the section because your hands are just following what you can "see".

The good thing about this visualisation is that you can "see" all the notes in your mind without turning your head to check each hand separately

Hi again,

Not sure if you're doing this for an exam, but this http://petrarch.petersadlon.com/canzoniere.html?poem=156
might help - its a link to the English translation of the poem.

Thanks Digby. I had intended on getting a translation so you've saved me a job!

Ah, thanks for bringing me back to this piece. I have always loved the second year.

For me, with regards to this passage, I have found a combination of memorisation, slow practice and effective fingering helpful.

When building up from slow practice to the indicated tempo, make sure that your fingers always depress the keys fully, especially the thumb which has to bring out the melody. This also helps to produce the dynamics required to bring off this passage effectively.

Have you looked closely at the fingering/hand position that you use, i.e. for the G flat - A natural - B natural chord, do you use 3 or 4 for the G flat? See which one is easier to get when jumping from the low E flat. For this passage, I find the left hand chords seem to fit rather nicely when playing up to speed. It also helps those chords being on the beat. I find bars 35-37 more difficult.