I'm a 23 year old and am nearing the end of my studies at Manchester university in history. At this point in my life I'm wondering what to actually *do* career-wise! People are telling me the most important thing is to follow your dream so ....

I was wondering if the music colleges (the ones I know of are the Royal Northern, the Royal College in London, Trinity, Guildhall) take mature students to study for BMus degrees. There doesn't seem to be mention of their admittance anywhere on their websites....

Now, it's just a thought at the moment, as I am being cautious with this one ... I started the keyboard at 11/12, the switched to piano at about 14/15, though didn't actually have a piano of my own until 17 ... I did it throughout my A-levels doing 3 grades in a year and then Grade 4 (after a failed first attempt!) - this was all before university

At university I've learned a lot of lessons about life, and took piano up again for about a year or so in my second year, I also picked up the violin during this time and did that for 2 years or so.

However, during all of the above, time and money, and attention to my studies has made all of this a very stop-start process!! I'm probably about Grade 5 at a push on the piano and grade 1 on the violin, maybe grade 2.

I've been thinking that maybe, just maybe, if I pay attention to it fully after I graduate (uni has distracted me a lot, i've been in so many different places at lots of different times, even abroad at one point (though i still managed to find a violin teacher in spain! plus making new friends, going out a lot) then I wonder if it might be possible in say, 5, maybe more years it would be possible to be at a standard of entry for one of the music colleges. With regards to being a professional musician I'm not confident about that at all ... I've been told even those who started when they were five or six have a hard time fending their way in the musical world ...

.... but it's important to do what you want and feel, and to follow your dreams in life, right?

I can't see why a music college wouldn't accept you as a mature student if you can get in and afford the fees etc.

A number of years ago a friend's son completed his music degree at Liverpool University and then did a further year at the RNCM by which time he was almost 25 years old. I think singers are often more mature when they go to music college so I cannot imagine that there's an maximum entry for age (within reason ).

I think, though, it would be worth seeking the advice of a really good instrumental teacher too before you go down paths that might lead to dead ends. The grade levels you have given in your message are, of course, way, way below what you'll need to get into music college. These days applicants may well have diplomas on their instruments already when they apply and Grade 8 Distinction would be an absolute minimum.

Also, presumably, when you leave uni, you'll need to earn some money somehow? Take that into account when thinking how you'll aim for your dream. You're probably not going to be able to sit and practise all day if you've got to work too. Just basic things to think about whilst dreaming.

I'm all for following dreams and trying to make something of yourself and your life but, you are right, getting into music college is very hard now and so you'll need to have lots of advice, quality lessons etc if you're to make it. So dream on but keep your feet on the ground whilst you do so.

Why not email the colleges (don't forget the Royal Academy in London and the Scottish and Welsh colleges) and see what they say about mature students and what sort of qualifications they would want. That would at least start the process of discerning whether, or not, this remains one of those lovely dreams that is just not going to happen or whether it could be a serious reality for you.

The other thing, given that you seem to be thinking in terms of a degree, is to consider another university course in music - where you'd have the chance of instrumental tuition too.

Best of luck and let us know how you get on.

The last thing I'd want to do is discourage you from following your dreams, but I think, realistically, you'd find it extremely hard to get into music college, even after several years' hard work. The standard, particularly for popular instruments like piano or violin, is well in excess of grade 8 distinction - it's not just a question of grades, but really outstanding talent for performance.

This certainly doesn't mean you can't achieve a great deal on your instruments if you are determined, just that it would be very hard to get into music college. There are other ways of achieving a career in music - when I did a music degree there were a few mature students on the course, but it was a more general degree in music, with less emphasis on performance than there would be at a music college. You would probably stand a much better chance of getting into a course like that. You would probably need A-level music as well as grade 8 standard in an instrument to get onto most music degree courses.

Whatever you decide - good luck!

If you have a bent for performance, why not consider the RCM/RHUL joint MMus. The fees ain't cheap tho.. I might like to do it part time one day over two years but you can certainly do it full time for 12 months.

More details here.. http://www.rhul.ac.uk/Music/postgraduate/mmus_perf_stud.html

I can't remember what the actual percentage of the final mark the performance element was in my music degree; like bevpiano, there were a few mature students on my course (as opposed to dozens of immature ones ).

Back on topic, it's OK to dream, but I suggest you work on reaching a very high standard on your instruments through private tuition and in the meantime you find a job so that (i) you can pay off the debts you've probably incurred doing your first degree and (ii) if you do another full-time higher education course, you have some money behind you for it.

Keep your dreams but be realistic - no conservatoire will offer a place to someone who's only Grade V standard on their first instrument. Once you have a diploma under your belt, they may view you differently.

If you played something like the double bass (or bass trombone), then you'd even stand a chance of getting into music conservatoire with simply a pass at Grade 8, or equivalent standard. I say equivalent standard because there is no formal academic or practical pre-requisite for them to agree an audition. You simply have to put a convincing enough case forward on the application form, but this does have to be backed up by someone (your teacher) who is prepared to give you a reference on your playing standard. They offer places based not only on your playing skills, but also how likely you are to succeed as a professional musician on your chosen instrument. They look for potential, not an instant success story, but the competition is still tough, especially now they receive so many applications from the Far East.

The reason I opened my post the way I did, is because music colleges are always very keen to recruit students who play the bigger, more difficult to carry around, more expensive to purchase and therefore rarer instruments. If they don't then it means their college orchestras are missing numbers in a particular section or in the case of instruments like the bass trombone, they end up having to hire in a professional when duty calls. This costs the college money, money they don't really want to be spending on a regular basis paying people to play.

Best advice for you at the moment, would be to seek a teacher's opinion on your current skills and take it from there.

Good luck!


In theory an option, but the performance standard expected for an MMus applicant would be somewhere around Licentiate level. They would need to have the equivalent level in performance as that of a music graduate. That's a lot to achieve in five years if they are currently around Grade 5.

It's not impossible and probably achievable if you don't have to work to earn a living and can put in 6 hours of practice a day for those five years, but in reality........

Well, you know you don't have to go to one of the 4 royal schools of music. There are plenty of other music schools, and some might be more appropriate based on the type of music you want to learn.

I would suggest checking out the London College of Contempoary Music http://www.lccm.org.uk. I know someone on their trumpet course and asked a similar question about mature students once and was told that there are people on his course in thier 40s, so I think you have plenty of time yet, and I got the feeling that their entrance requirements aren't so stringent, again I think they are looking more for quality of sound and performance ability rather than just a grade 8.

Oh there are many other music colleges, there are a few others in London and 1 in Brighton I know, that might be better suited... and finally you know you don't have to be a classical pianist trained from the age of 2 and half, to play in a band for example, it probably would be a bit of overkill. If you want to have fun and play good music then there are many other options.

So I would keep at it, do some more grades, but in the mean time contact the other colleges and find out from them what they are looking for. Hey, it doesn't even hurt to go for their audtions either really, it would be good practice at the very least, and then when you are more comfortable, perhaps grade 7 or 8 or whatever then you will be really prepared.

Good luck!

Tim.

I think you will find that the LCCM deals mainly with popular music/rock, as does the course in Brighton. Great if that is what you are looking for.

For the London Colleges, grade 7 or 8 will leave you totally unprepared! The performance courses at these colleges cater for those who really have reached a high level of performance.

Hi,

I just wondered and I may be being totally naive here but would it be worth talking to a) a music undergraduate at the university where you are currently studying, and b) arranging an informal chat with one of the music department staff or c) visiting the Royal Northern yourself to get a feel for the standard - (they are almost certainly going to be offering open days for new undergraduates anyway.)

I know more than one person who has changed their mind about their future plan and gone to the Guildhall or Royal Academy after their first degree, one of whom is a professional now.
Why do you want to study music to that level? If it is because you have always had the interest, aptitude, and involvement in music I'm sure you will find an opportunity to fulfil your ambition.

Best of luck!

N

Hey, I totally agree with you! 8-)

The point I was trying to make was that the type of music that interests Musicana should be the deciding factor on where and how to study, and really even if it is appropriate to study at a music school at all. For example, I very much doubt that that Royal College of Music is going to be the best place to study Irish fiddle folk music! But without some more info from Musicana it would be impossible to suggest a good course of action.

So for what it's worth, my opinon is to find out what type of music you want to play then start looking at all the difference options.

Thanks, Tim.