Dangerous question to ask () but do genuinely want honest answers...

When I listen back to my playing, it's horrible - tonewise I mean - and I'm really not sure how much is due to the fact that my speakers are cruddy...

How does it sound, for you patient listener-teacher-friends? (for whom I am very grateful!)

And Sue and anyone else who heard me having a go on Sue's cello on Tuesday, does it sound about the same as in real life??

I do have a reason for asking - if what I'm hearing through my speakers is what I really am sounding like then ugh, I need to work on it (I mean, I'm sure I do anyway, but...) but if it's more like what I am hearing when I play (and being wrapped round the instrument isn't totally distorting how it sounds to me) then I need to work on it but I don't need to panic.

Random question - sorry! Most recent vid is here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAklyNhbndE

Honest feedback appreciated...

Hi Sarah,

I think you are suffering from high expectations rather than poor tone. I think it sounds quite good for someone who has only just started. It does come out rather tinny, but that might be the speakers on my PC.

The only way to improve your tone is to concentrate on the right hand, as a violinist I am sure you know it is the bowing hand and arm that produces the sound. Your intonation is good anyway, so why not ignore your left hand for a while and concentrate on bowing, just on open strings. I think you need to be bowing nearer the bridge and with a much more relaxed right arm and hand. When I am tense in my right arm I try to think of the backwards and forwards movement of seaweed under water, or the way the bristles on a paintbrush follow the action of your arm.

I think I have said it before, there is no substitute for a teacher in the end! I used to be given lots of bowing exercises in the beginning, and still do quite a few every day (and still think I sound pretty awful, as an adult learner that is our burden to bear I guess, as you tend to compare yourself with top players, which does not help).

Thanks for the feedback and ideas immy - much appreciated!

I agree a teacher is best - it's just finding one - I have no car, and I can't take someone else's cello on public transport. In the meantime, anyone who plays cello and gets within a few feet of me tends to find themselves giving an impromptu lesson!!

I would agree with everything that immy has said. Your tone will improve - the wavery sound is caused by not keeping the bow constantly in the string, and also you are tending to turn the bow slightly on to its side - aim for full contact of bow on string. It is possible that your speakers are indeed tinny, so what you are hearing may be different from what other people are hearing. Keep practising!

It sounds very good Sarah. Your intonation is good, and your bowing isn't bad. I think you need to get your bow down a bit. If you imagine that you've partitioned the space between your bridge and the bottom of your fingerboard into three, you should be about a third of the way down from the fingerboard for a decent tone in general playing.

You're used to playing with a lighter bow, and you need to experiment a bit with pressures - it sounds like you're taking a bit of a light touch at the moment - almost like you're scared of the big noise of the cello - and that's what's giving you the scratchy sound.

Also, bear in mind that on the cello, you're likely to want to work more from the heel of the bow - you're tending to start in the upper section of the bow.

I can't see your bow hand really in the picture, or what's going on with your elbow, so can't really comment on that. It does look like you might be raising your elbow a little too high, though - you might want to have a look in the mirror.

Any chance of getting a teacher to have a look at your basic techinique?

Just had a look at some of your other recordings. I'm not sure how old some of them are - the scale one, for instance? So this might no longer be relavent. As a starting point, form a letter C with your thumb and index finger - that's the shape your hand should take. Your thumb needs to act as an anchor for your hand, but shouldn't be the source of pressure on the strings. Imagine your fingers sinking into the cello (a good exercise for this is to put your hand on your forearm of the other arm, with fingers on one side of the arm and the thumb on the other side. Feel the difference between exerting thumb pressure, and letting your fingers sink into the arm...

The scale ones are the earlier ones, the tunes later - the one with Frere Jacques is the most recent.

Thanks for all the help and feedback. I will try and find a teacher even if just for one lesson - like I say, it's getting one here that's hard. I do have a friend who's a very fine cellist, unfortunately he's gone back to Oxford!

I might get a chance to have some more help from him between the end of the Oxford term and when I have to give the cello back though!

I was charming my nephew with the cello on Friday - much fun

OK I have two more videos.... one is currently uploading, this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3CyAekHdEk

is scales and a bit of Frere Jacques at the end - tried to record from several different angles so as to show both hands and the contact point on the string. Or at least I think I did. Just watching it back - yes, I did - apologies for camera collywobbles trying to work out how best to place it!

I'm finding it hard to keep both thumbs nicely bent into curves. LH is giving me more trouble I think.

Have Frere Jacques from 3 angles uploading at the moment

Thanks everyone for your help and advice, I appreciate it very much!

Much better tone. Much better sounding point. Well done.

Thanks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rqFuI76CPU - Frere Jacques has finally uploaded.

yes, tone coming on well now. Aim to keep bow pressure as even as possible - it's improving!

Thanks

The Elephant:

not very fluent as yet but it's a start.

I got some real music this morning so I'm just trying it out and having some fun

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKWgBjIaPQA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9_UVVTz9S0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMhr6jm7zSE

I'm having fun

I go to orchestra on Saturday, and if I'm feeling brave will be asking the cellists if they know anyone who'd be willing to come to my house and give me a few elementary lessons.

I may also be asking for help/tips - anything I should be specifically asking, d'ya think?

Thanks again for all your help, folks - it's much appreciated

Wotcha flootah,

It sounds good - especially as you're about one week old as a cellist!

Couple of things - try not to lift your bow off the string when changing direction and try to play nearer the bridge, you're a bit too near the fingerboard at the minute and that'll stop you getting that lovely grainy wooden cello sound.

Bonne continuation!

Allan

Thanks!

Definitely finding it more of a challenge to get the bowing right whilst playing real toons! Am using youtube as an archive so that I can check back on my progress.

It's occurred to me I may as well just post the linky to all my vids: http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=sarahflute and ask for help when I have new ones up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ET5-RYq-Ds

I'm aware I need a great deal more finesse

Am I playing a little more like a cellist/a little less like a violinist left hand wise in general?

I know my backwards extension for Bb and my finding of 4th position (not to mention returning to 1st!) are somewhat dodgy, but recorded myself trying mainly to ask, have I got roughly the right idea? before I try practising those things I want to make sure I haven't got hold of the wrong end of the stick (not literally...!)... I know my intonation could use some work... I'll keep practising (and won't give up the day job )

edit: just realised the other thing I meant to ask - I find it hard to keep my fingers nicely curved as the string seem to require so much more effort! argh - any tips? and especially for 4th finger where I have so much trouble that it also affects the tone bit of a pain when lots of the pieces I have seem to have minims and stuff on 4th finger notes, and they sound icky...

Watching back, I definitely need to get out of the habit of lifting my fingers up quite that far lol

Don't ask me, after 5 terms I never went beyond first position (with front and back extensions).

I'm v.jealous and wondering whether I really was just never suited to it but also aware that this is not your first string instrument!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBZxvjBjD8c - bowhold - bit more like a cellist??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Hro7_LQrwA - bowing and contact point on string - did try G major 2 octaves in here! I think this might also be the one I attempted The Elephant in, apologies for dodgy notes, unreliable memory, should have fetched music......


Oh yes, It makes a HUGE difference having played other string instruments... some of it not good ie playing like a violinist - but I have a lot of advantages too. If this was my first string instrument I've no doubt I'd still be trying to work out where to blow it

...ps... but thanks for the compliment of jealousy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mtDH61_l0Q

I tried to record a couple of videos of my bowing from different angles, the other one hasn't yet appeared - even though I recorded it first ...

This whole 4th position thing is starting to make slightly more sense... slightly

Time for some piano practice or my teacher will disown me!