I'm new to this forum but reading some of the archives I'm saddened to see people are still blathering-on about all manner of falsehoods and Old Wives' Tales...

The first, and one which I thought long-dead, is people talking about using the Diaphragm during exhalation.

What utter rot...

Can anyone think of any other Brass Teaching whoopsies that forum users may not be aware of??

yes - the one about not mixing brass with woodwind instruments! in my opinion thats utter rubbish - ok maybe not for a young child as they will get the fingers muddled up, but I was always told NO NO NO you cant play the sax (i was a trumpet player) as it will ruin your embouchure...and at the age of 22 free from music teachers and now a teacher myself I eventually thought hey iv got enough money to buy a sax and so i did and its done wonders for my brass playing!

You need to use your diaphragm so much more for sax for sustaining notes and finishing phrases and so when you move back to brass you find its a walk in the park with regard to stamina and sustaining (you also need much more 'puff' for a sax so its again easier when you go back to trumpet!)

As for the embouchure myth - well the ambouchure for both instruments is completely different - you use a totally different set of muscles for each instrument and i dont find it creastes problems.

Also, the myth about not changing mouthpieces and changing from one brass instrument to another. I realise what I'm saying is controversial but honestly i play cornet for half an hour followed by tenor horn for half an hour, followed by cornet again and then i might play my sax at lunchtime when im at work (instrumental teaching in school)....and it doesnt play havock with my embouchure at all! On the contrary it makes you more adaptable and able to pick any instrument up and play a c above middle c or whatever not you want STRAIGHT AWAY without even thinking. i find that as soon as i place my lips on the mouthpiece i know how tight they need to be to produce whatever note i want on that instrument.

So yes, i think its a good thing once you have say got to about grade 7 or so one one instrument to start learning how to adapt to another. As long as you dont have youngsters trying it before they are 100% comfortable with one instrument then i dont see any problem with it at all.

Alison

Absolutely.

I swap between tuba, trombone and cornet without any problems.

Sorry being dim, you do use your diapragm when you exhale, you dont just rely on your intercostals and ribs..

The phrase has confussed me.. or maybe i missed something??

People tend to forget that Arban was French - so the sylables in the Arban do not reproduce the intended effect when pronounced in English.

"People tend to forget that Arban was French - so the sylables in the Arban do not reproduce the intended effect when pronounced in English."

Ahh. Can I be a bit dim about this please? The tu-ku advice in double tonguing. Is it still tu-ku or can I get away with der-ger?

Ho hum.

The diaphragm contracts in order to fill the lungs with air - and diaphragmatic support of the air in exhalation involves a controlled relaxation of that muscle - since it is controlled relaxation, it is indeed used for both parts of the breathing cycle. If we just use intercostals and abdominals to breathe out when playing, the result is uneven support, and a loss of tone.

I'm not a brass player - but know that d-g is just as acceptable as t-k for double tonguing on French Horns, so would imagine that it would be the same for other brass too.

You can play any combination of instruments!!!!!!!!! Even a Brass and Woodwind!!!!!!!!!

You know that. I know that. It's been known for hundreds of years.

But I bet you we'll still get the same old questions "My teacher told me that....'

But it gives us something to laugh about..... between the tears and hysterical laughter.

Steve

Hi, tu-ku is the pronounciation in french. This would sound different in french than it would in english, the effect that arban wanted was much softer than tu-ku would be if pronounced in english, so du-gu is the closest way of reproducing the french tu-ku for us english trumpet players, as the french pronounciation of tu-ku in the way arban meant is hard to reproduce.
Jon

It is not the consonant t/k which is different but the "u" sound. I know because my daughter is learning the trombone in France. Although she is bilingual (she was born in France) English is her stronger language. Her French trombone teacher was telling her to tongue saying "tu" (she only started in September so I'm talking about single tonguing) and she was saying it (even without the trombone) as you would in English. Her teacher tried everything he could think of to get her to produce a satisfactory "u" sound after the "t" but to no avail. I posted on here asking what English brass players say and was told "tu" (but obviously although the word is spelt the same, the pronunciation is not and I have lived in France for too long to remember how a non-French speaker would pronounce it). Linguist friends told me that there is in fact no vowel in English that resembles the "u" vowel in French.

This could have continued to be a stumbling block but for a chance conversation with the trumpet teacher in the corridor. He had been on a course with an American trumpetist and the American had said the French say "tu", English speakers say "tout" (the French word "tout" pronounced with an English accent). This immediately made sense to my daughter and she has had no trouble tonguing ever since.

I will just add that I know the French also use "du-gu" and see it as being softer than "tu-ku" because when the trombone teacher was talking about how important it was to get the sound right, he said that you could sometimes change the consonant to "d" or when double tonguing you add a "k" or a "g" but that you never change the vowel.