Hi,

Just a quick question...

My teacher told me, and I always believed, the guitar was categorised a procussion intrument, not a string instrument. In that, it would not come under the string section, but the procussion section in orchestral terms (though, I know the guitar is not an orchestral intrument). Recently I've come to doubt this though...

Is this true?

Thank in advance,
LG

A what instrument? Do you mean percussion?

I have no idea how it would be that, but I don't know everything. If you have guitar questions, this section is fine.

Sorry it's too early for me, I do mean percussion!

*goes red with embarrassment, and makes a speedy exit*

I've always thought of it as a kind of string instrument. Although cello, violin, viola, double bass, harp are the orchestral strings, i'd say guitar could be classified as strings, too. If a harp can be put in with the strings, then surely the guitar can be; they both strum (how similarly i don't know) and have strings (well ) . It's certainly not hit as far as i can tell which is one of the main ways of identifying a percussion instrument, so i'd say it is.

Yes, but there are passages in classical guitar music where the guitar is hit. And folk guitarist often use their guitars as drums, in a sense, hiting them in different place to produce different sounds. Also sounding the strings by hitting them.

Like a piano, so that's a stringed instrument too then

No, piano is a percussion instrument.

Oh, ok. Excuse my ignorance. I don't play guitar (as you probably worked out) so didn't realise this. Maybe the guitar is sometimes a percussion instrument and other times a string...

So is guitar a percussion instrument like the piano..?

How about the harp? That's plucked but considered a string instrument... then again, the harpsichord is plucked but behaves more like a keyboard instrument.....

I was just being difficult and/or facetious, I hope the smilies gave that away

Anyway, I suppose that's why they call them "bowed strings", so you know that the harp and the guitar aren't included. It's like round the corner from me there's a Woodwind Band which doesn't include recorders, but if you look at some Woodwind group courses they do include recorders...

Now, someone post a link of someone bowing a guitar and add to the confusion.

Would bowed string courses include the bowed dulcimer?

Does the violin morph from a string instrument into a percussion instrument when you play pizzicato?



Violinia

Well then..... there is such a thing as a procussion (instrument if you like)... But it is a synth that uses an actual instrument sound and generated sounds. So you could actually use the synth to make guitar (or any other) sounds.



I will assume that you mean guitar comes under the percussion section and no it doesn't.
The guitar will fall into the string section along with all the other plucked string instruments like Banjo or Mandolin that would be required to be used within the needs of a particular piece.

Imho, I really don't think guitars sound good with an orchestra under any circumstance. I think we get overpowered.

What about col legno

Bowed guitar was another name for an Arpeggione

It's definitely hard... requires great restraint from the orchestra and/or some sort of amplification for the soloist. We played the Rodrigo many moons ago in the county Youth Orchestra and we had to be absolutely with the conductor because we couldn't actually hear the soloist despite his amp - it was for the audience not us. With the changing time sigs in the finale it was hard work!

I may be wrong but I think Guitar and Harp are grouped as "string" for competitions like Young Musician of the Year. I would certainly have always called them strings but piano percussion.

got other ideas?

You see, if it weren't for my teacher, I would say the guitar was a string intrument too...but my teacher told me that it is a common error for people to assume it is a string intrument(I dunno maybe because it has strings!) when really it is a percussive instrument, as it provides rhythm.

I'm confused!

But being percussive/providing rhythm isn't the same as being a percussion instrument, surely...

Tuned percussion doesn't necessarily provide rhythm... and non percussion instruments can provide rhythmic backing...

I think my teacher must be wrong...as I simply can't understand how he can be right

Well, the AB Guide To Music Theory Part II has a chapter on strings, which it divides in to:
Orchestral Strings
The Guitar
The Harp

It also has a chapter on Percussion and Keyboard instrument, and the piano is one of the latter and not a percussion instrument

He/She is..

A piano is percussion as the strings are hit using a hammer..
emaphasis on hit!

Whereas you pluck the strings of a guitar making it more of a stringed instrument.
I think it is a string instrument anyhow as thats what its usually classified as in Examinations etc.

As for the hitting the guitar..thats just a technique (sort of) yes?
because im sure that i could bash my flute about a bit but that wouldnt make it percussion.
So i feel that it applies to both instruments

I personally feel Guitar is more inclined as a string instrument.

I agree with you entirely, I think my teacher is just compleatly wrong!

I play piano and percussion and have never believed (despite all the protests to the contrary, and the fact that the strings are undoubtedly hit by hammers) that the piano is a percussion instrument. Instruments with keyboards are keyboard instruments and that's that.

Likewise, I have never heard of the guitar being considered as a percussion instrument, and it quite definitely would not be anywhere near the percussion section in an orchestra.

I don't know what the combined name for guitars, banjos, ukeleles, mandolins, sitars, balalaikas etc is, and to be honest I've never felt the need to find out. Music gives me enough to think about without letting myself get bogged down with labels. Just play the thing!

Hi all, my first post here. The guitar is nowadays referred to as a 'fretted instrument', a group of instruments which includes lutes, banjos and the like. Yes it has a percussive nature particularly when Rasgeuados (percussive strums) and taps are performed in Flamenco but shouldn't be referred to as a percussion instrument. If it was to be grouped with any other body of instruments it would be strings as hitting the instrument is done far less frequently than, plucking, strumming or picking it. If you really wanted to I guess you could called it a 'plucked string' but as I said above most scholars, musicologist, pedagogues and players recognise the guitar a 'fretted instrument'.

Ah, there's someone who knows what they're talking about.

Yes the guitar has a small voice beautiful in the right hands though. I have been involved in music production and sound engineering for a while and have retired from that; now I have the time to practice again I hope to eventually launch myself on an unsuspecting public as a classical guitarist - if I have the nerves still . I will be using amplification, the trick to getting a good faithful, sound as a solo classical guiatrist is to use microphones, not pickups and have a 'sound man' with a small desk who knows what is required. For occassions when the guitarist wishes to perform with orchestras or ensembles then the other musicians must have a 'monitor feed' (speakers turned to face the orchestra) from the guitar so they can hear what the soloist is doing. It must be really irksome and insulting to orchestral players for them not to be able to hear the guitar, there is no excuse for this now, complain if you can't hear the guitar, some guitarists might not even appreciate there is a problem for the orchestra's members, eventually I hope it will become the norm to have subtle 'level boosting only' amplification for classical guitarists. Subtle amplification for guitars is the way to go!

That's always helpful, isn't it? Thank you, Guitarra.

I'm now starting to think that there should be a group of "fretful instruments" but that may be because it's been a long and energetic day and my mind is wandering. I may come back to this though.

A guitar's only a persussion instrument if you hit it. And since the sound board might only be half a millimetre thick, that's not a good idea. Unless you play flamenco of course.

Nope, its still a string instrument, just plucked.