I'd like to ask:


Which single qualification (your BA, Grade 8 etc) would you never want to be without?

Which one means the most to you and why?

Personally, I wouldn't want to be without my BA(hons) - I have it in Music with Education Studies. I also have Grade 8 in two instruments, but as a teacher I think the thing most parents look for is ability to teach...doing my grades and passing them meant alot to me, but I don't place too much onus on them as I know plenty of other very good music teachers who don't actually have Grades in their instruments - just years of playing experience....

Its the letters BEFORE your name that count - not the letters AFTER!!!

You mean the "miss" or "mrs" bit?

Very 50s!

Or the Lord, Lady, Right Reverend, Her Royal Highness etc.

Because they define your social standing?

I couldn't single one out - they all mean different things. I got a degree in music after studying hard for 3 years full time & I've also got more specialised qualifications in piano performing & teaching, including a post graduate diploma. Getting my grade 8 with distinction was important to me at the time, but of course doesn't give me any letters after my name & it was over 20 years ago.

I think all the exams I've worked for have added to my experience & knowledge & have helped me to develop as teacher & to give weight to job applications, but I certainly don't think exama are the most important thing. I've also gained so much from courses that haven't been examined, from teaching experience, from regular piano lessons with an excellent teacher, from seminars & conferences, from performing, meeting other teachers, reading, belonging to EPTA & ISM.

"Because they define your social standing?"

Is that because the letters BEFORE are given to one,

whilst

The letters after are earned/brought!?!

Maybe I'll stick with Viscount Cheaney then, and do away with the BA,BSc blah, blah...


ps. if anyone knows the difference between bought and brought without looking at google than do let me know



I completely agree. I just wanted to get this forum moving alittle bit personal. Which one is most important to you as a person, not in regard to career etc., which one made you weep with joy???


And, to answer your question, I burst into spontaneous tears in the post office January last when the postman showed me the envelope for my LRSM! I'm not embarassed because it was one of the greatest moments of my life and the best when it comes to piano playing.

the letter 'r'.

Surely Dr is earnt?

[/quote]
Surely Dr is earnt?
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Not sure about that. You are admitted to the LRSM and I think you are given a Doctorate if the awarding body are satisfied - if we're splitting hairs!

. if anyone knows the difference between bought and brought without looking at google than do let me know

bought is the past participle of buy,
brought is the past participle of bring

is that what you meant ?

I think I meant "bought" then.

Thanks Maggiemay, I always got the there and their thing but not the bought and brought one. Caught out by the spell it as it sounds education they had in Leicestershire in the 1980s!!! With a lisp and a dodgy eye it didn't work too well!

A PhD is still a degree though. One is admitted to the degree of PhD in the same way one is admitted to LRSM. In fact, the process for the two is strikingly similar: two examiners who essentially decide whether to award the PhD/LRSM; and then cleared by some higher body within the organisation.

Being 'given' a Doctorate would be if it was honoris causa, e.g. Dr Jeremy Clarkson....

ok,ok, I'll back down on that one if you'll get this thread back to topic.

Which qualification would you take to the grave YAP?

The ones I'm proudest of are the PhD after or Dr before. I'm proud of them because I worked harder for them than I'd ever had to do before or have done since. There was quite literally blood, sweat and copious tears shed for these. Could I do without them? Well, given the choice I wouldn't do it all again, and nowadays I work in a completely different area so they're no longer relevant and make no appearance on my business cards etc. I get correspondence addressed to me as Miss, Dr and Ms according to when I first filled out the associated form - Miss is pre-doctorate, Dr is the 4 or so years post PhD when I was still working as a scientist and everyone used Dr as a title as a matter of course. Ms is post career change when using Dr seemed a bit of an affectation, but Miss a little too lightweight

PhD, just for the sheer number of hours it takes to do one. I certainly wouldn't want to go through that again . I managed mine in under 3 years, but I can see why some people take substantially longer.

Thanks for the replies - it is interesting to hear other peoples stories.


I really didn't intend the Dr. thing to become an issue or to offend anyone. Sorry if I did.

It would be really interesting to hear from any of the diploma crowd about this subject. Is FRSM the most rewarding of qualifications, or maybe it was grade 5 theory?


TSax - I understand how you would use Dr immediately after gaining the PhD - you'd feel you deserve it after such alot of hard work. I've had friends completely lose the meaning of life after 1 year of PhD work! But also, i understand how after some time has passed the importance you attached to the achievement of the qualification subsides alittle. Maybe to the point of "why did I bother"???

Again, thanks for the brave replies

The only letters I have are my BA, but then, they're probably (ATM anyhow - I may feel differently if I ever get DipABRSM or ATCL or something!) the ones that mean the most to me. They represent 4 years of my life when I persevered through illness and all sorts of crud, and they mean a lot because they prove I stuck to it and got on with it despite everything... I guess they represent a certain bl**dy minded stubborn perseverance that although it has got me into some scrapes, also is one of the good things about me. Plus, I did have a good time and make many friends... so those letters mean more to me than the degree they denote

The Dr bit for me is just the means to an end - I wanted to do the job, and the title came with the necessary qualification. I don't use it when I'm not being a doctor (though as I'm sure my colleagues will confirm, it's not always easy to stop being one ), and my passport merely indicates my social status as a wife. Finishing a medical degree is of course an achievement, but the title was secondary for me.

ATCL was without doubt my best achievement; I'd wanted to play well for years, and for the first time I've started to play as I hear the music in my head - still not as well as I would like, but at least some of the time musically and with some technical facility, and the exam showed that someone else thought so too, at any rate for the half-hour I was in there.

I know what you mean! I have those thoughts as well - for at least half an hour I played the piano well enough for someone important (including the diploma board) to think it deserved the LRSM! That has been very important to me this year and has inspired more confidence. My playing has become consistently good since passing the exam.

Sarah-flute - When I did my physics degree it was with the goal of getting out of music teaching and into a different career. I knew from the end of the first week that I didn't really want to do and gradually came to hate the whole thing. But, the same, as you, I said I will not give up (to prove a point to myself as I had already given up alot of other things) and then eventually got a very good degree, which now is useless because I'm self employed again.

As MrB has said elsewhere it is the journey that is the important thing about taking qualifications but the certificates are nice too

I did enjoy my degree, actually, but yes, it was (especially in my 4th year) a case of gritting my teeth and not giving in to the temptation to give up when the going got tough.

Sorry S-F, thought we agreed on something.

Actually, I didn't enjoy my second degree but I got a first. I did enjoy my first degree but got a second. There's food for thought

By "letters BEFORE your name", I did, of course (as YAP rightly spotted) mean DR.
(amazed at some of the other suggestions!!!)

Perhaps a more interesting take on the question would be "How often do you USE the letters (either before or after)?"

In my own case, it only seems to matter when I'm applying for jobs/promotion (at which point it becomes VERY useful). In my everyday job/life its not something that I shout about.

I wasn't disagreeing as such, just correcting any misapprehension that I hated my subject or my degree - I didn't. I really enjoyed my degree in a lot of ways.

I just had a great many problems with illness (my own illness, and also my dad's MS going from relapsing/remitting to secondary progressive - he drove me to Durham several times in my 1st and second years, by the end of my 4th year he came to my graduation in a wheelchair and unable to speak clearly) plus various other things, and it was a challenge not just to jack it all in and go sit in a corner and cry.

Unquestionably my FRCS Ed - it allows me to work as a surgeon!

I went to University from school and got a BA Hons (2 ii) without really putting any work in. A shame really because with a bit more maturity it could have been a different story. Therefore it doesn't really have a lot of meaning for me - unlike Sarah-flute who had a great deal to contend with.

However, my husband, who left school with a handful of shabby O-levels has just recently got an MSC through dint of hard work, whilst working full time. I'm most proud of his achievement above all mine.

I don't think the qualification or letters after your name mean anything really - it's the journey you took to get there that counts. I think a hard earned G5 theory counts for more than a dodgy, 'went to Uni cos everyone else did degree'.

I don't tend to use mine either, other than for 'professional' reasons, such as those you have mentioned.

I am particularly pleased with my BSc Physics though, because I managed to achieve that via part-time study while working full-time. I look back now and wonder how on earth I found the time to do it. Through blood, sweat and tears I just kept on going. There were many times when quitting would have been preferable, but it's amazing what one can achieve with enough single-minded determination.

I feel like that about my Agrégation and my PhD. What I am now wondering is if I still have the same single-minded determination to put myself through the last French academic hoop (which would enable me to apply for a job as a professor).

Another hoop? Crumbs, what else to they want on top of a PhD??!

I have 'The Hon. Miss' before my name as my parents are Lord and Lady. But I never use it. I would worry that people might treat me differently or think I was snob or something. But I'm not! After my name I just have DipLCM which I'm quite proud of. It did take alot of hard work but having the piece of paper to confirm that I'm actually an alright flautist means more I think. Come June I hope to have ALCM

An HDR (Habilitation à diriger la recherche). This is another sort of thesis (fortunately short, only (?) about 100 pages) in which you reflect on your published research since your PhD thesis. After the examiners have read the thesis (and theoretically all your research) there is a Viva with a jury of five people.

A number of things put me off:
- It's in French (both the thesis and the viva). OK so my PhD thesis and viva were in French too so I know I can do it, it's just harder and more time consuming than in English.
- I find the French marathon oral exams very stressful (my PhD viva lasted from 2.00 to 6.00 with a 15 minute break in the middle).
- You more or less select your own jury members (with a view to your future career) and I am not good at working out who is likely to get on with who and what sort of influence people have.
- I would rather spend the time playing the oboe and making reeds.

Wise choice IMO

A four hour viva I thought mine was bad!

My PhD is the qualification that means the most to me. It represents a lot of hard work and many mistakes just to get to the point of being able to start one. Then I ended up doing the research in a foreign country, so there was the language barrier, homesickness, setting fire to my lab as well as the work itself which I didn't enjoy as much as I thought I would.
Here in Germany, it seems to be the usual thing to use your title when dealing with banks and other formalities but I think it's a bit silly when people use the title for events that are completely unrelated to their qualification, such as when the rowers I cox use their titles when entering a race (unless they want to use the fact that they have a PhD as an excuse for coming last, but if so, it's a poor excuse, they should just pull harder).

(apologies)
The French seem to like this sort of marathon exam. When I took the Agregation (competitive exam) I had two four hour and two seven hour written papers. During the seven hours I just had to write one essay.

I am equally proud of my Agregation result (20th in the whole of France) and my PhD.

SEVEN HOURS??????????????????????????????????????????????? That's insane. I thought 3 hour exams for uni were plenty bad enough..........

PhD = Pull harder, dam*it!

Sorry

I feel very special, I didn't have any exams!!!

I don't use the letters after my name usually. I did come to the decision a couple of months ago that I have never used the letters, and after spending £18,000 on getting them over 4 years, decided it was time.
So, a few days later, sat at work, and finally, a package arrived for 'Keith Smith BA' haha the poshest thing I have ever recieved from Amazon.co.uk

I want to study a BMus though, but dunno how or where to do it as I work full time now and can't afford to stop working. Everywhere that does BMus courses only do them full time and are in cities far away from where I am prepared to go. I'm hoping that the Open University will do it one day.

Keet
x

I asked this question to Revd Dr D, who has various professional Post Nominals (physics/engineering( and we both agreed the qualification that meant the most toe either of us was out first degree. Having been Miss for 27 years being Mrs is great, I don't hanker for any more letters in front of my name, although a couple of good quality diplomas would be nice.

I don't want post-nominal letters for their own sake, but I would like them to demonstrate I have moved on profesionally over the last few years.

my preferred 'letters after my name' are ones I gained a while ago, but I have let lapse (actually I don't suppose one puts them as qualifications but I was quite pleased with them )

HGV and IAM

I study for pleasure, but I do like to have objective measures, i.e. exams. So the OU is a natural choice fo me. The 'problem' is then picking up random qualifications. I don't go around slapping them after my name, but as and when I next have to create a CV, it'll be interesting. Obviously the relevant qualification/experience is the main thing, but I don't want to miss off of my CV that I have actually acheived stuff through studying for fun. But it would probably be better if I did, as picking up a BA(Hons) and a BSc (with or without Hons, as yet undecided) for fun doubtless looks a bit weird...

Well I'm Dr Ian Garnett BSc(Hons) PhD
I have been CCHEM MRSC too but that's lapsed

Ian, now which one meant more the BSc or the PhD?

Of course:-

Bought is the past tense of "to buy", meaning "to purchase"

Brought is the past tense of "to bring", meaning "to carry with you"



John

and the failsafe way to remember it is:

bring = brought - they both have an r
buy = bought - no r

That's interesting. AP and I had a similar discussion, and concluded that we're more proud of our PhDs. That's not just because they're recent, but in terms of effort put into those compared to our BScs, they are a far bigger 'achievement' for us. For our first degrees, we weren't really stretched, had undergraduate holidays etc. etc. At the end of a PhD, there's a lot of work to be done; although some of that was self-inflicted as we were absolutely determined to finish within 3 years, so worked 12 hours a day for weeks on end in between visiting hospital once or twice a day. And no, I wouldn't recommend that to anyone - the knock-on effects on ones mental health are quite severe .



Jod - but your title is Drs (doctress) not Mrs .

No such luck for men - I figured the only way to shake 'Mr' was to become 'Dr'. Or get knighted, but the former requires somewhat less brown-nosing. Just realised - AP will never be Mrs, but will be changing her surname .

The PhD I think- its a little bit rarer thean the BSc, and a lot more work.

She may decide to be Mrs YAP socially but Dr YAP professionally, or even Dr AP professionally (although if her PhD is her proudest qualification, it sounds as though it's Doctor all the way!).

When people phone and ask to speak to Dr Pianist, do you reply "which one?"?

My sister-in-law (a medic) tried to be Dr Maiden-Name at work and Mrs Married-Name socially, but abandoned the idea when she could never remember which surname she should be using when signing cheques or prescriptions She's now Dr Married-Name all the time.

My Dr is also my flute student's mum She's resolutely Dr Maiden-Name at work, and very much Mrs Married-Name/just the first name outside of work. I don't know how she keeps it up but she seems to manage!!