When counting intervals, for example C - G, I know you count from C to G, including both letters to get to a 5th but looking at the Theory for Fun books to work out major, minor, perfect, etc, if you have a perfect 5th and count seven semitones, do you count the first letter name. I don't know if this makes sense but would I count from the C to get to my seven semitones or would I start from the D.

I think I mean would I start from the C sharp, the next semitone. So confused.

C - C sharp
C sharp - D
D - D sharp
D sharp - E
E - F
F - F sharp
F sharp - G

Voila!

You would count from a semitone above C.

C# = 1
D = 2
D# =3
E = 4
F = 5
F#= 6
G = 7

Thank you so much. I am printing out your replies.

Is this method effective though?

For example. C - E is 4 semitones. So you would learn 4 as being a major 3rd. C - Fb is 4 semitones. But the latter is not a major 3rd but a minor 4th.

Um - a diminished 4th??

Explain?

4ths are not major or minor, but perfect, augmented, or diminished.

C-F is a perfect 4th so C-Fb is a diminished 4th (there is no such thing as a minor 4th - unless I'm having another 'Eleanor Rigby moment' ).

Hope this is right and makes sense!

Nope, you're right, unless I'm having an Eleanor Rigby moment too!!

Hhaha Ooops. Yes, silly me lol!

At first I was thinking about it as a 6th, but when I posted I changed it to a 3rd and 4th. Hehe



Sorry

Cyrilla had a bit of a minor/major confusion moment about Eleanor Rigby a little while ago!

I always work out intervals first by looking at the number, ie like noodle says C(something) to E(something) it a 3rd and C(something) to D(something) is a second, even though the actual notes could be the same. So C-E = a third is the first step, then whether it's major/minor/etc depend on the actual notes, so if it's C-E it's major, C-Eb, minor, etc. Doesn't require knowing the scale...

Think that works anyway, past my bedtime so I may not have explained it right

Er, Noodle....???

It's best not to work out intervals using semitones at first. Use the inclusive distance as numbers and then decide on the quality of the interval by seeing if it is a semitone/tone higher/lower than the note in the major scale of the bottom note. Mmmm - I know what I mean!


BTW, Father McKenzie knew Eleanor, but she was a lonely person.

Always better to learn something by understanding it rather than by numbers you don't really understand.

I can do the interval thing, but I'm not very confident on it. I get confuzzled....

I know what you mean - that's how I do it, not sure if I explained it well though

I think you did - and gives a better understanding than counting semitones. I'd certainly go along with JohnS and Sarah's approach.

Nowadays, unfortunately, intervals tend to be taught on a keyboard with 12 notes to the octave and in isolation from the western system of notation. IMO, this traditional way of naming intervals hangs together better if you forget about keyboards and just consider the notation system (please post corrections or improvements):[1]

I There are seven letter names, A-G, used to name notes.

II Each letter has attached to it one of five inflections, natural, sharp (#), flat (b), double sharp (x) or double flat (bb); the combination of a letter with an inflection names one of 35 pitch classes.[2]

III A flat lowers the pitch of a note by a chromatic semitone; a double flat lowers it by two chromatic semitones; a sharp raises it by a chromatic semitone, a double sharp raises it by two chromatic semitones; a natural leaves it unchanged.[3]

IV The number of the interval name is derived from the letter names.[4]

V The intervals of the notes of the major scale above the lowest (the tonic) are, in ascending order starting with the lowest, perfect unison, major second, major third, perfect fourth, perfect fifth, major sixth and major seventh.

VI The intervals of the notes of the harmonic minor scale above the lowest (the tonic) are, in ascending order starting with the lowest, perfect unison, major second, minor third, perfect fourth, perfect fifth, minor sixth and major seventh.

VII Reducing the size of an interval by a chromatic semitone has the following effects:
a minor interval becomes a diminished interval, a major interval becomes a minor interval, a perfect interval becomes a diminished interval.

VIII Increasing the size of an interval by a chromatic semitone has the following effects:
a minor interval becomes a major interval, a major interval becomes an augmented interval, a perfect interval becomes an augmented interval.

IX The major second is also called a "tone"; the interval between the seventh of a diatonic scale and the tonic above it is a minor second, also called a "diatonic semitone".

Notes

[1] This is a first attempt at what a mathematician would call a set of axioms. It presumes knowledge of major and minor scales, so it is not complete; it's probably also redundant and certainly axiom IX could be removed, since it serves merely to define two additional terms.

[2] "Inflection" is my appropriation of a term used in plain chant, where it means any pitch deviation, because it might be in the key signature ("intentional"?) rather than accidental. "Pitch class" means all the notes (in all registers) with a particular letter/inflection combination, and is a frequently used term in analysis of atonal music.

[3] This being purely a notational system, the exact frequencies of notes and the sizes of intervals are undefined. Many different tuning systems have been used over the last thousand years.

[4] The reason that they combine according to different rules from the ones we use in normal arithmetic is that normal arithmetic is performed on cardinal numbers, one, two, three etc., whereas note name intervals use ordinal numbers, second, third, fourth etc.

Once the building is up you can take away the scaffolding. In the meantime, keep the scaffolding.