hi

as you all know i am learning to read music and play the flute at one go i dont find the reading of the notes hard but i am really getting upset about is when i dont play the notes for the correct lengh of time i have tried clapping through the piece first in front of my teacher, then when i play sometimes i cut a note short or play a half note too long i know there is no set time for a whole note or half note what i cant get right is the different lengh to play a half note, quarter note, whole note in relation to each other.

i know i am worring far to much about this but my teacher picks up on this straight away and i end up playing badly on the same part for the whole lesson ( she stops me as soon as i go wrong and i end up playing badly cos i know i am going to muck it up and she will stop me again)

i have gone from really enjoying my lessons to not really liking them i am feeling abit down in my self and wonder if a break of a week or two would help me

sorry to be such a moaner

Hello Monkey flute...

firstly I dont see this as moaning...it is very frustrating for you as it is for anyone who has trouble getting the time and rhythm correct...so dont beat yourself up over it...it'll pass and you will eventually recognise patterns in rythm that you have seen before and it will all become like riding a bike or driving a car you will do it automatically...

I used to have terrible trouble with the very same problem...half the battle was getting the right notes let alone the rhythm so it often went pear shaped...keep a sense of humour about it...its not the end of the world and you will soon pick it up...you could always set your self some simple rhythm exercises just keep at it...

good luck and if your teacher gets tricky about it explain you are hzaving trouble with this and how would she/he best solve this...put the ball in their court...thats what you are paying for...them to teach you...

Kindest regards

Andrew

thanks andrew its hard to know sometimes if i am just being hard on myself ( this is a bad habit of mine!) or if i need to ask for more help i this area my teacher is quite flighty and i find it hard to ask for help

i think my lessons need more direction so i have just bought the second boosey hawkes book for flute i really liked the first one and this one seems just as good maybe if i stop playing just things i like the look of and follow a book more my lessons will be more productive and i can crack this timing thing

thanks again monkey flute

ps how is the hunt for teachers going the chap in the winchester music store was really helpful when i bought my flute there

Flautists can be flighty (smiles) dont worry about pinning your teacher down thats what you are there for TOO LEARN...sometimes a different approach is needed but you'll get there...

A new book isnt a bad idea...and how about some orchestral extracts for the flute...at least then you will have a general idea of the rythmn and can work from there...( its also kind of fun playing the big solos...doesnt matter how well you play thm just have a go thats what music is partly about)

Good luck keep going...

Andrew

hi, have sympathy with you, doing some Jazz clarinet studies having problems with tied notes, if the teacher claps i am okay but soon as she stops i get it wrong again, best thing is to start something new and go back refreshed!

thanks for that i feel much better about it all now i have a lesson tonight for an hour so i will start this boosey book and work through it


thanks again for all the postings

if there was a grade for clapping i think i could enter that now!

Have you tried going back to simple rhythm patterns, and possibly playing them with scales you are confident on. Also don't give up with the clapping, it will help even if it doesn't make your reading of rhythms perfect. Rhythm is more difficult to read than pitch, it isn't you having a mad day! When you have so many variables to think about it can get confusing. Something like the Musicland Rhythm bank, or those "Flip a Rhythm" books might be valuable.

Clap rhythms, the more you do it, the more you will click in to reading them more quickly and fluently. Play rhythms on scales or even on single notes, so at least you're playing too. Don't feel that it's a step backward to go back to reading very simple rhythms accurately, you need that solid foundation and to be able to instinctively know that a minim is twice a crotchet, etc.

Try getting hold of some sight-reading books, go right back to grade one sight-reading and clap/play all the examples.

Practise! It's the way to do it

Working with a metronome is helpful too. I know it can be offputting at first, but if you persevere it can make a difference. I like the ones that accent the first beat in a bar (provided you're not coping with changing time signatures too). I remember one piece I was playing it was only by using this that I managed to trap a place I was consistently putting an extra beat into a bar.

It can also help to get yourself used to counting a steady "1 + 2 + 3 + 4" while you're doing other things. Try counting in time to your footsteps as you're walking around, count the beat to music you're listening to, take the odd 5 or 10 minutes out of your day while you tap the beat with your feet and clap or tap out a rhythm while you keep your feet at a steady pulse. These are all things I'm currently trying myself. Feeling very pleased with myself because I can now tap 4 with my feet against 3 with my hands!

hi tsax i have turned into one of those mechcanical clapping monkeys now ha ha

i am sitting at my desk tapping four with my feet and clapping three think it might take me a while glad i dont share an office but getting funny looks as people walk pass me to leave the building

i think everyone is ace on this forum talented and very helpful xxx

Lots of good advice here, and some of it implied in your sig - you need to have a pulse going inside you and play to that. The clapping and the metronome are okay but you need to use them as tools to develop that internal pulse. Once you have that, let's say you've got a section which goes dotted crotchet, quaver, crotchet. You'll automatically play the dotted crotchet on 1, you won't be able to play the quaver until after you've counted 2, and you'll time it so that you get to the crotchet exactly as you count 3. You may not be able to do this without a lot of practice, but do remember that it's the eventual aim.

Oh, and can I recommend Steve Reich's Clapping Music for your enjoyment

[i know i am worring far to much about this but my teacher picks up on this straight away and i end up playing badly on the same part for the whole lesson ( she stops me as soon as i go wrong and i end up playing badly cos i know i am going to muck it up and she will stop me again)

i have gone from really enjoying my lessons to not really liking them i am feeling abit down in my self and wonder if a break of a week or two would help me

Hi monkey flute,
I'm a beginner too and have problems with relative values of notes, reading music fast enough, and making the right notes. It's a wonder I ever play anything recognisable! I would be a bag of nerves if my teacher stopped me every time I went wrong, too.

Could you talk to your teacher about how you feel? You could ask her just to let you play and note where you had a difficulty. Then she could explain the first mistake and how to put it right and you could play those bars without interruption again and she could comment again at the end or ask you if you noticed anything to comment on. It would then be in a spirit of exploration rather than get it right at all costs.

I had a teacher who stopped me, or commented on a wrong note whilst I was playing and it was really offputting. My present teacher never does that. She encourages me by asking a question after I have played and demonstrates if I don't understand. She also praises the bits I get right so I don't feel a complete Klutz.

Maybe if you can't come to an agreement on how to proceed it would be time to lok for another teacher. If you dread a lesson it can't be helpful - I now really look forward to mine and no longer cringe at my mistakes.

Have you read 'The Perfect Wrong Note' It says if you make a mistake - make it a nice juicy one and learn from it. I think it's a great book.

hi hazelkay thanks for the reply i spoke to my teacher last night and asked if we could follow the boosey hawkes book as it is well planned out on breaks things down well this she agreed to i put across my thoughts asked if the lesson could contain more direction ( in a nice way as she is really a lovely person ) and finally if when i get timing wrong can she correct me at the end of the bar also i asked if she could play to me the piece where i am going wrong as i can pick this up much quicker

after that i had a really good lesson and she said my timimg had improved

Hope things continue to get better for you, monkey flute!

When learning stuff partly by ear (ie getting your teacher to play it) do make sure you follow along with the music so you're able to relate what you're hearing to what is on the page, and keep working to develop your sense of pitch, as eventually it would be great for you to be able to sight-read without having to rely on hearing it first - it will open up a whole range of music that you can have a go at on your own instead of having to hear how it goes first!

thanks sarah flute

I agreed i would love to be able to do this straight away (being able to sight read without knowing the piece) i try to do this now and will keep trying it do so and spend 15 mins of my lesson now as of last night doing so. now i feel i am on the egde of finding my inner pulse at last!!! i have percussion lesson tonight this is really helping too

thanks again monkey flute

Groovy! Yes, percussion I am sure will help a lot, because without feeling the groove and the pulse, you're stuck playing a rhythm instrument! Good luck... keep at it

yeah i got abit pickled in the pub one night and offered to learn to join a local band they play acoustic stuff and all sorts no drums so percussion is tams and bongos its a nice sound i think i might die of fright when it comes to it but will give it a go at least

Go for it! I am sure it will be fun