My daughter currently has weekly flute lessons at school for half an hour and is doing her Grade 7 exam this term. Her teacher has told me on the phone that she will not teach her anymore after this term unless she is having an hour each lesson. Basically that means the fee is doubling for us by doing this and we cannot really afford it. I did suggest this was the case, but it is a sensitive issue and the teacher just stood by what she said. She said we could look for another teacher if we want, but all teachers would insist on an hour at this level. Is that really the case? Another aside issue would be coming out of lessons for a whole hour when she will be going into year 10.
Can any one offer advice as to what to do?

Sara

I know someone working towards gr.7 flute and they have 1 hour lessons every two weeks. Would this work?, it would be like doing half an hour a week (same price too). I personally would go for the hour lessons each week. Some places offer an award (audition for the chance to be awarded 2 yrs free teaching).

If it's possible to arrange for an hour once a fortnight this may work though with lessons in school this may not be so good because of the time already lost for school holidays.
At this level it's very difficult to cover everything needed in a half hour lesson.
If you can't come to an arrangement with the teacher at school you might be able to find a teacher outside who is prepared to do either half hour lessons or fortnightly. Everyone is not the same.

Whilst my choice is for 45 minute lessons, and that is the norm for my private students, my college students (most of whom are working at Grade 6+, and one who is working towards DipABRSM) only get 30 minute lessons. I do the best I can in the available time.

I expect most teachers would WANT an hour at this level, but I've never known a teacher who insisted on it, and I know at least one teacher who manages to get excellent results even with shared lessons in school at this level (though I'd imagine that's a lot tougher!) - so to make a blanket claim that it's always necessary & all teachers will insist on it seems... well, a bit of a fib, to be honest.

As with Andante, I prefer a longer lesson for grade 6-8, usually an hour. But I do have a few that are doing, or have done, grade 8 on 1/2 an hour a week due to their finances. We usually have a couple of hour sessions nearer the exam time, just so that we can get through everything in one session. Perhaps 45 minutes could be a compromise? Having said this, these are all private pupils. I have a teacher friend who has grade 8 students for 20 minutes a week. She really finds this tough!

I currently have 45 min. lessons; I think they are suppose to be an hour long though. Oh well, at least my college pays for the teaching. Sometimes I find hour lessons too much, as I have a private practise beforehand.

I had hour long lessons when I was in year 11, it was really beneficial as we didn't really have to worry about time constraints. But my teacher didn't insist on it, I did!

I can't believe the teacher is insisting on this. I took grade 8 sax having a shared 30 min lesson in a group of 3, not ideal but we all did well. I now teach and have had students do well at the high grades with "only" 3o mins a week

I now have hour lessons for violin, but I still only have half an hour for piano and I'm working towards grade 8, because that's all the time that both my teacher and me can fit in. I think quite a lot depends on the teacher and their style of teaching - my piano lessons are fine for me at the moment, but I think I really need an hour for violin. I would talk to your daughter and see how she feels and if she feels that half hour lessons are still working for her or that the move to hour lessons is needed.

We have just reached this stage with our daughter, but her teacher is being really helpful about it.
He says she is so talented and so eager to progress that 30 mins is really not long enough anymore and that she would really benefit from an hour-long lesson. I do understand this - they only have to tackle a tricky bit of theory or practical work and the 30 mins is almost up!

However, he also understands the financial implications (he has 2 children himself) and has said that this is only his advice and that we are by no means obliged to take it! He will continue with the 30 min lessons unless we decide otherwise, and will do the best he can with that time. But he's holding one of his spare hourly slots for us for a few weeks in case we decide that's what we want.

We're still mulling this one over...

I think one hour on a fortnightly basis probably wouldn't work because the teacher would be left with an empty slot once every two weeks. Perhaps 45 mins would be a compromise if it were affordable and fitted in with the teacher's timetable?

How sensible/helpful of him!

Actually what really makes me cross for your daughter, Sara, is the "no compromise, take it or leave it" stance, which seems rather arrogant of said teacher... bah. Presumably she's just expecting you to magic the cash out of somewhere...

For my piano I get an hour, and I've had that since Grade 5 and it is really good; a lot more can be fitted in now that I'm doing harder stuff. I get clarinet lessons through the school though, and they are only half an hour so not so much can be fitted in. An hour every week is good and it will really help to get more fitted into the lesson. Your daughter would get a lot out of an hour; it's helped me loads with piano!

^ I agree that 45 minute or hour long lessons are great - I don't think that any teacher should try to make them obligatory.

I'm working for grade 8 (I think). I started lessons last week after a 34 year gap. My teacher gave me an introductory half hour lesson and then moved immediately to 45 minutes for the second: There was no discussion, no "take it or leave it", just: "This is going to happen", end of discussion. I had that lesson this afternoon. We covered only one key of scales and arpeggios (g min) and less than a quarter of my repertoire. I would love to have an hour at a time but as yet she hasn't got the slot. I am having problems imagining how we would cope with only half an hour, but it's early days.

On the other hand, I am lucky: I can afford it.

If you will genuinely have problems managing the extra cost (quite possibly £60-£80 per month) you MUST say so to the teacher. Absolute intransigence on the part of the teacher should lead to you starting a search for a new and less inflexible teacher.

I have an hour flute lesson a week and I am not at grade 7/8, only grade 5. I would say that at grade 7/8 you do need an hour, or at least 45 minutes! I only have a 20 minute sax lesson and am doing grade 8, and that is nowhere near enough time.

It sometimes takes me that amount of time to get my tenor sax. out of it's case and set up
(20 mins)........okay, slight exaggeration, but certainly at gr.8, I do feel 20 mins. is just a bit too short.
I have 30 mins. on sax., but would love to have longer (not really doing grades though).

It's ridiculous. Today I had a lesson, after the usual getting the instrument and quite chat. All I had time to do was show how I could not play C# melodic minor scale. Then go over it a few times and thats it!

It's such a shame .

I remember (only just tho, it was a long time ago ) having fortnightly 1 hr long piano lessons when I reached g6 which was sufficient when balancing with the amount of A-level school work at the time (again long time ago!!). In retrospect though, I do feel that weekly would have been far better in preparation for exams. Its only since I have started again with the exams and piano repertoire that I realise how poorly prepared I was all thouse years ago!

I'm at that level - the subject of extending my lesson from its current half an hour hasn't come up. I would love to have an hour, but I can't afford it.



Yup. I havn't heard of a teacher who would insist on it - mine hasn't even offered to extend mine!

With regard to coming out of lessons for an hour, would it be possible to ask that the lesson overlaps with break or lunchtime? My childrens' lessons are never the same time each week so they don't contstantly miss the same lesson. The lessons provided by the music service in our area are also not as expensive as private lessons which is also something to bear in mind if that is the same where you live.

In some areas lessons in scholl are more expensive.
A young piano student of mine just moved house and will probably have lessons in school to see how it goes but this will be more expensive than the going rate here.

Half an hour is not enough for Gr7?

By the time you've played through one piece and the teacher has gone over anything which needs work and you've gone through some of the suggestions the time is up.
Makes it a bit pushed for time once you have all 3 exam pieces (or more than one piece on the go if not working specifically for an exam) plus technical work and maybe some sight reading and aural(if you have an exam in mind).
Also barely time for a complete run through with feedback in the weeks coming up to the exam.

Okies...May have to learn to play my pieces fast when I get to that standard!

Do those who have to keep to half an hour become better independent workers as I'm guessing they will not be able to cover everything they are working on every lesson but will have to rotate and keep the some thing going on thier own for sometimes a few weeks at a time?

I like my higher grade students to have at least 45 minutes if possible, but I certainly wouldn't insist on it. I find 45 minutes is a good stepping-stone to having an hour for grade 8. I think you need to think about your daughter having longer lessons at some stage if she's really serious about her music, but the teacher shouldn't bully you into anything you can't afford.

Bear in mind that even at a conservatoire a student only gets one hour of one-to-one tuition a week. That doesn't seem much for someone who is aiming at a professional level of playing, but, the more advanced your playing is, the more you should be ble to assess and teach yourself outside of the lesson time.

A Grade 6/7 student is capable of knowing what sounds right and what doesn't sound so good, so there should be some self-teaching going on between lessons. A teacher should not be expected to have to spoon-feed a student every single bit of information at a higher level or grade, the student should be capable of thinking for themselves. Lessons with students at these levels should be directed at specific issues in repertoire and for learning, developing or improving technique in a particular area, not for mashing through the enitre works (you're playing) over and over again.

In fact, I have one adult learner at a lower level with whom I am already working in this format.....

? When I was at Trinity College of Music, we got two and a half hours of one to one study for our first study instrument per week. In my case it was an hour and a half with my singing teacher and an hour with my singing coach.

Re the length of lessons. I think the teacher is uncompromising to say the least to insist on an hours lesson. Music lessons are not cheap, and parents have to stretch their budgets more and more these days. My lessons are 45 minutes, unless someone can afford an hour, but I would rather an hour per fortnight for an advanced student than half an hour per week, which is fine for the younger ones or beginners. But you can't magic money from nowhere. As a result of this, one of mine got a merit at grade 7 with half an hour per fortnight.

Thank you for all the support. I felt and still do feel upset about her saying she'd only teach her for an hour or else look elsewhere. I think I'm going to at least look into a private teacher out of school just to weigh up the options. I'm sure she doesn't think I would do that and the money will just come forth. I should add that with the teacher's consent, I do all the work on aurals and check sightreading as I did for her Grade 6 preparation. What I expect from her is the benefit of her repertoire knowledge and technique. I thought things were going fine as she got distinction last grade, obviously we'd all like an hour if money was no object...and I'm too embarrassed to dicuss it with head of music.

Sara

As a piano teacher I would be asking parents to consider 45 minutes for grades 6 and 7 if at all possible, and an hour for grade 8......if the pupil is working towards an exam it's extremely difficult to effectively fit in everything into 30 minutes....if there are problems with one area you can spend a whole 30 minute lesson on this one problem - and that's then leaving the pupil to work on everything else by his/herself potentially cementing in errors and problems you haven't had time to deal with in the lesson.

To put things into perspective: grades 6, 7 and 8 now carry UCAS points. All things considered equal, would a student expect to be able to study for an A-level with a half-hour a week lesson?

As I said above, my college students get a 30 minute lesson. For those taking A level Music this is free of charge, as it equates to the performance component of their A level exam. So the college considers 30 minutes a week an adequate amount of tuition to prepare for a 20 minute recital plus one additional solo performance in the Upper Sixth.

I had 280 minutes of teaching a week for each of my A-levels. That's 280 minutes for 100% of the content of the course; 30 minutes of that would correspond to around 11% of the course. I would assume (although please correct me if I'm wrong ) that performance counts for more than 11% of music A-level. Hence, performance is receiving a disproportionately low amount of teaching for the extent to which it contributes to the final mark.

Grade 8 practical with distinction is worth 75 UCAS points. An A at A-level is worth 120. Give or take, that works out at a grade 8 distinction being worth about two-thirds of an A at A-level. That's a whole A-level, not just the practical component of a music A-level. So, again, a proportionally low amount of tuition for the UCAS points gained.

(Small print: 'all things considered equal' disclaimer still applies, may be comparing apples and oranges; money does not grow on trees; practicalities may not always allow increases in lesson time; there are both documented and anecdotal cases of teachers of pupils and teachers doing well with 30 minute lessons etc. etc.)

I have 45mins for cello but only 1/2 an hour for piano and am doing some G7 pieces. I would like to have longer for piano but i do have an hour's jazz lesson some saturdays, so that's fab.
I don't think i'd manage on any less than 45mins for cello.
I think it's a bit out of order that the teacher demands your daughter to have an hour's lesson, Sara. Obviously she/he thinks it would greatly benefit her but if it is just not practical for you, they should be professional enough to understand and either make do, or negotiate.
Hope you can find some resolution!

It doesn't take into account practising though. I spent proportionately a LOT more time practising outside of instrumental lessons than I did writing essays or composing outside of classroom lessons.

Personal imput: I did my piano DipABRSM on a 30 min/week lesson when my programme was 33 mins and passed comfortably. It's perfectly possible.

What dates (years) were you at Trinity???

RAM only give one hour of on-to-one tuition these days. I'm not sure what the RCM give, it might be 90 minutes, but it's still quite a lot shorter than the very generous two and a half hours you got.

But you'd hope that at diploma level, a pupil can work well by themselves for the most part and just be sorting out little bits of interpretation or troublesome technique in the lesson.......At grade 6/7 I would have thought that a pupil still needs quite a lot of teacher input........

I only have 30 minute lessons and I'm doing my grade 8. Sure, it's not ideal, and I'd like longer, but it's OK, and as long as I do work at home it's fine. It's only when I haven't practiced that it's a problem.

Depends how much a pupil is able to think for themselves. Additionally, if they already an accomplished musician on another instrument, then they will be way ahead of the rest.

1995-7. I still see my teacher - she came to my student concert last week. I'll ask her what they get nowadays.
Re the hour and a half with my teacher - we could choose between having an hour and a half straight off, or two separate lessons of an hour, and a half hour respectively. I chose 90 minutes in one go. The other hour was with a vocal coach, but still one-on-one.

I wonder if it was to do with the type of course you were on?

I had flute lessons in school up till a year ago when I started uni. The school lessons were 20-25 mins long, but I got around 30-35. Its not really a lot of teaching time, but managed to do well in grade 8 anyway.

Now I get 1 hour lessons, which usually end up being 75 mins long. Since september I have had 8 lessons! Need to start having more......Its hard to find a spare moment with her as she is always performing or in rehearsals!

That's the one problem with having lessons with a musician who spends the majority of their time performing. Getting more than perhaps two lessons in a row becomes very difficult.

My feelings at the moment are to try to negotiate a 45 minute lesson as a compromise. That way the money won't be doubling for us and my daughter will hopefully get more benefit from her lesson. From what people are saying it is clear to me that it is perfectly possible to play at the higher grades without a whole hour's lesson. I've always maintained it's what you do between the lessons that really counts. If the teacher won't agree to the 45 minutes or feels slighted then we'll have to go elsewhere I suppose.

Sara

Definitely.

I hope you manage to sort something out, Sara.

I'm working towards Grade 8 flute and I have 30 minute lessons. Ideally, 45 minutes would be better, but there's just no way I would be allowed out of lessons for any longer that 30.
I've never heard of a teacher insisting on giving 1 hour lessons before