There is a discussion in the Teacher's forum in which they are discussing adult learners...us! Rather than barge
in on their discussion, I think we should have our say here.

so, are you a moaner repeatedly assuring your teacher that you'll never get it? Do you endlessly apologise?
Do you think you only make those mistakes in lesson time? Do you know better than your teacher?

And if you are one of these, what do you recommend your teacher do to help matters?

As for myself...... I don't apologise, as I'm a student and therefore mistakes are expected.
But I do get frustrated when I make mistakes I normally don't make.

Once a piece went really well, and I said, "That was a fluke", because it was. My teacher said
I'm not supposed to say that. But my experience of English people (I'm not English but live here)
is that they come down like a load of bricks on anyone who says they did something well -- "Now you're
showing off" is a typical remark. SO can students never win?


EDIT: If someone can tell me how to add more poll options...such as "other", much appreciated

whoops.....just realised that it's 'what style Adult student are you?'

Definately an apologist me!

I played my Grade 3 pieces in front of the choir I'm a member of the other day, just to get the nerves out of the way before my exam - whenever that is.... Muchos apologising beforehand! But maybe that's just my sense of humour also.

As a student, I guess you are right, we are expected to make mistakes. But I hate my mistakes with a vengence! All part of the learning curve I suppose.

None of the above, not really. I love my lessons, find them a stimulating two-way dialogue about the music and how to make sense of it. If I'm making a lot of mistakes, my teacher can generally tell if it's because I need some technical support (in which case he'll find a good way for me to practise that bit) or if it's because I'm trying too hard (then he suggests I work on it at home). I've learned to trust his judgement, and am careful to try to keep myself as flexible and open to possibilities as I can; he's got me playing stuff I didn't think I would master, and also music which I would never choose to try if left to my own devices; above all, I've found that when he says I can learn to do something, then it is highly likely that I really can .

Of course I do apologise sometimes if I goof up consistently, and get worried over my inability to count, but there are just as many times when I'm laughing at myself or feeling buoyed up by having achieved something worthwhile . To put this in perspective, all that comes with a background of fairly entrenched Impostor Syndrome over a couple of decades...so the conclusion must be that he's a jolly good teacher .

I can't vote as I don't fit into any of the categories listed...
I think I am 'proactive' as a student, I follow my teacher's advice but I also come up with suggestions myself (on how to practice/tackle something), at home if I know I've hit a wall or getting bored I then pick up something else to learn, bring it to lesson and my teacher always appreciates my 'proactivity'. I don't mean that I 'turn around' when I face problems as I do face them (I had a problem with keeping rythm steady as I first learnt pieces with quavers and then with perseverance from both my teacher and myself I conquered the piece!), but can look at the situation and say:'Ok, maybe I need to go back a few steps to reinforce some of my knowledge then I'll tackle this bit'
I find I am more 'proactive' with my piano teacher than my violin teacher not sure why?

None of the above.

I do what I'm told and don't apologise or complain.

Almost all of the above or none of the above, depending on the instrument, the piece being tackled, my mood at the time, whether there's an r in the month......


Piano - in the doldrums at the minute. Alternate between the moaner and the apologiser phases.

Recorder and singing - having to be more proactive as I get more experienced in these instruments. So perhaps a bit of "my way" at times.

Violin - have upon occasion shown distinct apologiser and "I can do it at home" phases.

But, more often than not, I just get on with it, come to lessons with a "look what I've done so far" frame of mind and my teachers tend to take it from there....

I'm a bit of all of them, but I clicked 'moaner' because I think that's my dominant trait.

I voted apologiser but in reality I think I'm a depressive about my playing (only there wasn't a category ).
I don't moan about anything I'm given to work on - I have the attitude "if this is good for me & my playing I'll have a go at it". I do apologise when I feel I haven't made much prgress but my piano teacher says she can always see improvement & that I'm too hard on myself.
As far as flute is concerned - well lessons as such are infrequent - which isn't good for me. I always get wound up beforehand - to the point of feeling sick & feeling incapable of playing anything. I wouldn't dream of moaning, possibly would say "I can do this at home" (or at least do it marginally better at home)", and would apologise for apologising....

I think I'm sort of a mixture but voted "apologiser" as that's probably a common trait in most lessons... I often feel guilty if I can't do something (or if I know I can, but it isn't happening!)

I do sometimes say that I can do something which isn't coming together, but generally it IS true - I get nervous in front of teachers

I voted apologiser but should have voted lacking in confidence. - I am not talkative enough to fit into any of the categories, although I do have a tendancy to play something and then describe everything that I think was wrong with the way I played it. I have always listened very attentively to whatever my teacher says but he said a few weeks ago that I've only really started talking to him this year (And I worry about my daughters not talking enough ).

I'm definitely in the "apologiser" camp and have decided that it's a bad habit that I've got to break. Of course mistakes are going to happen, but it's so frustrating when you can play it properly at home!

For me I think that it stems from lack of confidence and only just having started with another teacher.

I'd say "all of the above" but add in Demon Swearer as well!

Either that or I just dissolve in fits of giggles as the complete lack of any instruction passing from brain to fingers - duet was a good example, eh Nat??

None of the above - I'm a model student!



Ambs
x


PS. OK, I joke!
Apologiser, whinger, excuse-maker, but hey I turn up on time and smile sweetly

Ditto.

Only one instrument though, but more than one teacher (one individual sax teacher, one group jazz teacher, and other sax teachers when my usual teacher can't make the lesson because of gigs).

All the various teachers I've ended up with are great, all have their own styles of teaching, all are interested in and respect, the others teaching. I always feel able to be completely honest with them. Sometimes I apologise - especially in the group class when I've messed up, but overall I trhnk my (and their) attitude is "What's the best way to move forward?". If they suggest something I'm not sure about I'll always give it a few weeks fair trial before dismissing it, and they always listen and respond to my misgivings about why I don't think something will work.

Sounds like I've reached nirvana - I have everything crossed that my teachers continue to be myteachers for some time yet!

I saw the thread in Teachers before this and could not stop myself replying there:



http://forums.abrsm.org/index.php?showtopic=22954

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I am an apologiser. I feel quilty when my teacher has to listen to me stumbling through a piece. And I feel even worse when half an hour before my piano lesson I could play the whole piece without mistakes when no one was listening to me. I also feel bad about apologising to her all the time so I try not to do that as much anymore but I find it difficult to break the habit. Luckily my teacher and I can also laugh about all the mistakes and everything that goes wrong during the lesson. She is always very supportive and tries to give me more confidence. And above all we do have fun together.

Not really sure which I am. Probably mostly apologiser (used to stop to say "sorry" when I played something the wrong way ), with a bit of "I'll do it my way thrown in".
Of course I don't actually have a teacher at the moment, so I'm not really anything right now - just attempting to teach myself as I can't find a viola teacher hereabouts.

I'm probably a combination of the first three. THe first, two, I think, come from a lack of confidence, and I wouldn't quite use those terms to describe myself. But it's a bit like 'criticise myself before someone else does' when I do it.

The third is genuine. My guitar playing, in particular, is much better when I'm alone than when I'm with my teacher. In fact, my playing deteriorates as he walks up the stairs with my cup of tea at the beginning of a lesson. When he's downstairs, I'll be playing flawlessly, but by the time he gets into his chair, it's all fallen apart.

Oh, and more positively, as the second poster on that thread suggests, I think I'm more motivated, I practice hard, and am clear with my teacher when I haven't been able to, and I progress quickly. My teachers generally like me, and we both enjoy our lessons.

I'm of the "don't make these mistakes at home" camp usually but at my last lesson I was apologising profusely for not being able to play the whole of the Aminor violin concerto (Vivaldi) within one week of looking at it. .... well, it's sooo frustrating.

I did go to a lesson recently to play my grade 2 piece feeling quite pleased with myself (I was a diploma+ level musician previously so I reckoned I must know something). ... I played my piece and waited for the buckets of compliments and my teacher ripped it to shreds!!!!

She was quite right of course. Which makes her an extremely good teacher in my books. I'd have been bored if she'd just complimented me but I did eat some humble pie in the car on the way home . But, boy, did I learn a lot about playing this instrument in that lesson.

Most of the time I just get frustrated with myself for Lack of Immediate Brilliance. But where would be the fun/learning curve/challenge/risk in being completely perfect straight away

(but I do wish I was better all the time...)

hahhahaah I used to always say "sorry" whenever I made mistakes, but since I started teaching I say "oops" instead, because sometimes when I'm taking a student through something and they make certain kinds of mistakes an "oops" escapes my lips by reflex

it's actually a nice thing tho I think, it doesn't have the guilty feelign that goes along with the word sorry...

I'm the apologiser and if it's all going really badly, then I start giggling, sometimes uncontrollably. Both get in the way of the lesson and I do annoy myself. I'm such an idiot in my lessons and I cringe with embarrassment when I think back to some lessons.

Loops started this topic saying that she doesn't apologise as she's a student and therefore expected to make mistakes. I couldn't help thinking about this for ages and guess what, in my last lesson, I didn't apologise once. I think it's a turning point. Oh I'm so proud of myself!

Well done Gwu!

Well done!

hey that's great gwu!

Glad to be of service (I need a smilie that takes a curtsey !! )

There are so many challenges no matter what level you are at. It's hard not to get frustrated
although sometimes seeing how far you've come helps to keep things in perspective.

But I did have one small step forward this last week. I got my eyes checked......and one eye
needs much greater magnification in my reading glasses that the other. So, no wonder the
stave lines were appearing to wobble about, with each eye having a totally different focal length.
My new reading glasses have helped greatly although they have not cured the problem.

But I discovered an interesting fact. Because my sight reading is so very frustratingly terrible,
I tend to go over and over the Paul Harris and Right@Sight books every time I read about
some (new) theory of how to do it, testing out the new theory. I know it's sad but I can't help myself.
I'm also not above children's tutor books so I bought the Playing with Colour books (see thread in
Teachers Forum). The notes are colour-coded according to the finger and the stave lines are
numbered which somewhat cures the lines moving about problem because you can keep track
of how notes relate to other notes (the intervals).

Anyway, I've observed that if I play one of these colour-coded ones, somehow my eye-brain
connection gets "set" and I can then sightread something in the grade 4 Harris/R@S books
(the ones I'm currently working through).......almost without difficulty. So, what gives here?
How is this link built and broken? I must be breaking it somehow.

It's much worse in my lesson -- I'm visibly tense about it my teacher says, so clearly there is a
stress-related component. But I'm also observing there are themes to when it gets bad, eg
Repeated notes, big spaces between notes (vertical and horizontal).

So my style as a learner is staying aware and being totally pig-headed about achieving something.

Loops, finding what works for you is what's important. And if using colour helps, then great.

Getting the right focal length reading glasses is a tremendously sensible thing to do (note to self, must go see optician soon).

Getting stressed in lessons suggests you've got some sorting out to do with your teacher. Have you explained about the colour thing and the new spectacles?

Thanks katyjay. But I don't think there is a problem with my lessons! He is tremendously
patient and non-judgmental. He was just noting what I note in my own students, that
they can get unduly fussed over some things, in this case the little duets we do. We don't
do sightreading exercises in lessons, only duets. He simply observed when we started a duet
that my shoulders rose and got tense, indicating a mental block. He thinks sight reading isn't
compulsory, it's a good skill e.g. for session players, it does take years, but that I panic when I need not.

Maybe I do panic? It's just that there I am happlily playing a Mozart sonata and a highly syncopated
cuban bolero (total fun) from memory, and then the duets involve only the same notes on left and right hands
and only one hand position and in the middle of it I suddenly don't know what finger is on what note or even
what the note is.

By training I'm a problem solver and I find how the mind works completely fascinating so I observe myself
having a difficulty as a kind of scientific experiment; does this theory/method work or not, can I answer why, and so on.
He's the one who pointed out that repeated notes trigger the problem, so I guess he's catching on
to observing the problem.

I was an apologiser for about 2 lessons.

Every time the teacher corrected me I said sorry. It annoyed them so they stamped it out of me. Every time I said sorry, they said back "NO sorries."

So I stopped that. I've been told I am a little negative in respect of my playing and I guess that's fair. I'm, not an "I'll never get it" learner at all.

Basically, I do what I'm told as I know nothing and the teacher is god

I know this feeling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lexa's statement is obviously right. Otherwise why would we need teachers ?

I'm definitely in the "it was all right when I played/sang it at home..." camp. Because teacher wasn't there !

The teacher is the referree, as in football, or more precisely, as in rugby. Teach young players that the referree is always right (as in Football) and you are teaching something they know to be incorrect, so they ignore it, they learn dissent and you end up with foul mouthed yobs. Teach them that the referrees decision is final (whether right or wrong, as in Rugby) and they can live it. Kids can cope with unfairness: They understand it - it's lies they resent.

Like any pupil I know my teacher is human and therefore may be wrong occasionally. I may question the reasons for her opinions, and this can lead to interesting (and illuminating) discussions, but in the end, like a rugby ref, her decision is final: I do it her way.

good point

I have the same teacher for two different instruments and we have completely different style lessons depending which instrument we are tackling.

With piano, I'm confident and proactive, basically asking for advice on specific technical or interpretive issues. On the organ, I've only been learning a relatively short time, I'm pretty useless at it and I get really frustrated, leading to a combination of moaning and giggling. I think having learnt piano first with the same person set up an unrealistic expectation of my abilities with him. I had to keep asking for easier music and it took a long time to get him to realise how much I really am struggling with the organ.

I have 2 adult students. One is definitely the "I'll do it my way type". After 18 months, she has spontaneously started looking at theory and aural and is coming round to my way after all! She rarely cancels and is very keen, determined to get through exams etc. I was very uncertain how things would go in the beginning as she was very dismissive of theory, scales etc - basically anything other than playing the bits of music she liked. Interesting that she has now seen the light!

My other adult is a giggler - she dissolves as soon as things start to go wrong. Somewhat irritating, and she is definitely lacking in confidence, but actually very musical and progressing nicely. She has also surprised me by changing tack from jazz to classical in the last few months. She eventually admitted to being terrified of improvisation, which may have been a factor and I'm trying to do a bit of both with her now.

Haha, just seen this. Yes, perfect example, although pretty much the same as me! Demon swearer and fits of giggles! Mrboffant would agree with that !