Help!

I have several pupils who I am really struggling with and I would value your suggestions. They are aged between 8 and 10 and have been with me for between 12 to 18 months each. Basically, I don't feel that any of them are making any progress at all and I'm getting really frustrated.

I've tried lots of different ways of teaching basic stuff like note names - I've given them rhymes, taught them to count lines, note naming games, cards to practise at home, websites to look at, incentives etc etc. I don't know what else I can do to get them to learn this stuff. Really simple things like note values (crotchet, minim, semibreve) they still can't seem to grasp.

Getting them to practise is also an issue. Again, I've tried charts, notebooks, writing on the music, playing cards with practice tips. Week after week they turn up without half their music and having done no work whatsoever.

I'm reluctant to give up on them and I don't want to keep moaning at them (I have had a grumble at all of them this week for the first time in months). The parents and the kids seem to think that if they turn up once a week it will all just fall into place.

I don't think I'm a bad teacher as I have other students who work really well and have responded to the above methods. Do you think there are some kids who just can't (or won't) be taught? How long should one persist with them before calling it a day? I feel particularly bad because 2 of the worst culprits were some of my first pupils and have recommended me to other people, and one of their mothers learns with me and is a great student.

It feels dishonest to just take their money and not strive for some kind of improvement with these kids. I am getting more and more stressed about having to deal with them. Argh!!

I know exactly what you are going through. I have had many situations like this. Have you tried a practicing chart? or incentives like points towards a grand prize? Talking to the parents? You might want to ask the parents to sit in on the lessons so that they see you are doing everything you can and then advise them to work with their kids at home. Some of my best students were those whose parents sat in on the lesson and took notes. These parents would go home and be the teacher for the week.

Another problem may be is that they don't know how to practice. At the end of the lesson, or even on a particular piece, go through very specific steps on how to practice it and then have them repeat it back to you. Have them record their practice time and bring the recording to their lesson. You might be able to tackle their problem there.

You can also have them record their lesson time with you. This way they can go home, turn on the recording and practice along with it.

If all else fails, you can only do your best! The students can't expect you to make them a great pianist if they won't work for it! Good luck and let me know if you think of anything else that might work!

Have you tried practicespot.com?

What about organising a workshop for all your students. I find this can be a motivator. They choose something they would like to play to everyone else and then they practise it (hopefully!) It gives them the opportunity to meet your other students and hear each other play. I find that a lot of my students know each other but don’t really get the opportunity to play to one another at school. Last year I used the local festival, for the first time, for this means. Not all my students wanted to play but some did and that was good. This year I’m going to try and encourage the ones that were too shy to play last year to team up with another student to play a duet – the festival isn’t until November but I’m already looking at repertoire to see what might be suitable.

At the moment I have a few students dragging their heels a bit. So in June I will take a group of students out to my teacher – those sitting exams but also those ones that just aren’t practising at the moment. We've discussed what they might play and we will see how practise has progressed when they come to their next lesson.

I think suggesting the parents sit in on a lesson is a good idea. My youngest student (7) was making good progress until her parents stopped sitting in on lessons, which at the time I thought would be okay because, as we all know, we behave differently when our parents are watching! Unfortunately, for the last term this student hasn't really progressed. I think her parents must think that as they don't sit in on lessons they don't need to supervise practise at home any longer - my fault though as a haven't been clear enough. On Monday I explained this and said I would like one parent, not necessarily every week but certainly more often, to sit in on a lesson. I have a student that supervised practise worked the other way round for, but that's another story!

Good luck!

Thanks everyone, some good suggestions there.

I think the parents sitting in would probably help, but they aren't prepared to do it. They have a very relaxed attitude to the whole thing and I think the comment about piano lessons being a "status thing" is so true. Unfortunately I'm probably stuck with 2 of them, but I am going to rattle all their cages and have a bit of a sacking session at the end of term if need be. I'm planning to put the fees up in September and that may put a few of the less committed ones off!

It's just disappointing that after so much effort from me, they are no further forward and have so little interest. sigh.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who has had this problem. I don't feel so bad anymore!

In my case it's just one particular pupil, and it's really getting to the point where I don't know what else to do.

I started teaching her at school with a number of other students the same age. Many of these have since done festivals/grade 1, and this girl is still struggling to name "g" in the treble clef. I've tried to find out if there are any specific learning problems, or if she even likes piano (apparently she does), but I know the mother has told me practise hasn't been done and we're "getting back into it this week"

I've been careful to explain how she should set about practising, and why, but to no avail.

I did think of another possible reason though. The school I taught the girl at before, employs a different method of "teaching" from state schools, where the kids don't learn to read/write formally until about 7/8. On asking this girl to read an instruction about a hand change, she had difficulty reading the word "position" (she's nearly 10). I think perhaps she doesn't yet know how to go about learning anything, as the school obviously don't press the issue much?! Then again, I've had children from the same school do fine at piano, but maybe they are getting more help in learning at home?

Sue - The only reason to feel guilty would be if you hadn't told the parents about the situation and carried on regardless. If they are happy enough to send the child that's fine even though no practise is being done, that's up to them. It's not as if they don't know what's required.

I know how you feel too, and I think that in the end you have to trust your instincts. If you can honestly say to yourself as a teacher, that you've done everything you could, and there's still no progress, then I think the time to call it a day with these particular students has come.

Yes - sadly, there are some that despite our best efforts don't get very far, for whatever reason.

I was looking back the other day, as I'd found a couple of previous concert photos, and I was struck that there were three or four pupils all learning at the same time who had never moved beyond the early stages. We struggled for two years roughly, and one of them actually managed grade one, but didn't go beyond - in fact played at the last concert and decided on the same day to give up. One of them finally clicked (so I thought) only for mum to send a message at the start of the spring term this year saying she didn't want to continue. Another child didn't show any enthusiasm and I suggested she had a break etc etc.

And in retrospect it was probably a relief with each one of these. Maybe they went on to learn with other teachers and did well - who knows. Maybe piano just wasn't their thing. In some cases there were clearly problems with practising, eg very little time at home, busy household, noisy younger siblings etc. It is all too easy to get bogged down in the mire with a child who just doesn't move on. I am struck by the fact that the batch of beginners I have at the moment seem to be moving ahead so much better, and that some of them, despite being younger, have achieved more in a term and a half than some of the others did in two years plus.

Hopefully SueHM you will gain some ideas from this thread and something may provide fresh thoughts, so don't let my rather negative post persuade you to pull the rug immediately. I have learnt a lot in the time I've been taking part in the forums, and I'm sure this has helped me to come up with other ways of doing things when the going is hard. Also yes, Practicespot is full of great ideas and some of them have borne fruit with my pupls.

But on the other hand, if by the end of this term you still feel the same, you might feel that you've done all you can !

My experience tells me that we all have pupils who seem to go nowhere very fast. We also, hopefully, have those gems of pupils who work hard, have spurts and more measured moments but, on the whole, make excellent progress and do well (ie the ones who keep us going )

It's partly self-motivation, parental support, background, demands on time, interest...... so many things. As a teacher you can try and think of all the ways you can to get someone going (carrot and stick) but, if they don't want to learn or they won't put in the time to practise, you are slowly going to grind along, if not halt.

I've just about reached the end with one of my pupils. Parents are insisting he keeps going until he's got Grade 3 on the piano (by then, apparently, he'll be an accomplished pianist - their view not mine) and then they've told him he can given up!

Actually, I wish he'd give up now. I tried suggesting to his parents he should. He's just not interested, plain and simple and after four years effort of trying with him, he's still grovelling around Grade 1. I'm trying to pluck up the courage to give him his marching orders but, as a boy, he's a naughty but likeable rascal, so I feel bad about doing so. However, I also have a long waiting list and I know some on it are really eager to learn which enhances the dilemma.

So, SueHM, you are not alone! Hope you resolve your difficulties with your student.

Oboist

I tend to put the onus on the student parent on whether to continue or not by poiting out that without the practice they might want to think about how much they really want to carry on.

With a slow moving reluctant prqactiser of mine (age 10) I've had some small success by firstly suggesting they consider whether they want to continue with lessons. I did this when coming to the end of a book letting them have time to think about it before paying out for another book.

I had temporary success with practice charts.
I discussed with the child (giving her the responsiblilty rather than the parents) how to find time to practice and got her to agree to aim for a minimum...... 10 minutes on 4/5 days a week but with no more than one day between.
I also get her to comment on how she thinks she has played her pieces and to suggest ways to practice to improve. I then add a suggestion or 2 of my own (I make a point of asking if I may). That way she has set the agenda and thought it's a bit hit and miss still there has been some improvement.

I think that if despite a teacher's best efforts to make learning, lessons and practice fun there comes a time for the teacher to call a halt. I have not had to do it often, perhaps three times in many years of teaching, but I certainly would not continue to teach a pupil who had no interest in playing or in practising at home. I would suggest that they try another instrument and tell the parents that the piano is not their thing. I had to give up on an entire and large family once because of the total lack of structure in their home, and the lack of understanding of what practice entailed on the part of the parents. Their children were more than capable of learning but things were stacked against them doing so. They were being home educated by totally clueless but well meaning parents and their practice was done on two pianos at the same time within three feet of eachother!!!! The pianos were old wrecks and the noise must have been hellish. A long story for another time perhaps?

Have you talked to the parents about them basically wasting money if the kids won't practise?

Have you asked them why they are learning? What are they interested in playing and then helping them to play what they want to do? For example, do they want to be able to play a particular pop song - you could teach the melody by ear / or do they like 'mucking about' - how about teaching improvising / how about learning some simple songs by ear? For notation they could notate the rhythm of a simple song using short / long bits of paper to represent crotchets & quavers. NYCOS publish very good song books (for Early & Middle Years with lovely simple songs in them). Also they could compose their own simple songs and notate them.

As for the rhythm, how do you teach it? Do the children experience rhythm through movement, for example through walking while you play crotchets / jogging as you do quavers, striding as you play minims etc. It is lots easier for children if they experience these things before they see the notation.

How about singing the note names before and as they play, this often helps.

For practising I have found it helps to tell the child to play the RH (or whatever) 3 times a day perfectly (in sections, of course). If it's not perfect they have to start again, if perfectly is too hard, then 'best effort'.

Some really interesting ideas here. It's so important to discover what captures the student's imagination.

I think one problem can be that they may feel they're not making progress, The reason they may feel this way in the first place may be the natural shape of a leaning curve: To start with it's steep - progress is easy to make and easy to see. After a while the curve starts to flatten out, and progress becomes harder to achieve and harder to see. Some days or weeks you will even notice backwards movement. The pupils notice this too, so become disheartened and don't practice, so they don't make progress, and the whole thing implodes: To coin a phrase, when the going get's tough the tough get going!
I't s easy to say, but it seems to me you have three (hard) choices.

First, you need to find a way of putting them on the steep part of a learning curve again.

Second, you need to find a way of getting them motivated to carry on when the going gets tough.

Or else, third, you lose them.

Help!

I have several pupils who I am really struggling with and I would value your suggestions. They are aged between 8 and 10 and have been with me for between 12 to 18 months each. Basically, I don't feel that any of them are making any progress at all and I'm getting really frustrated.

I know exactly how you feel. I used to experience the same problems with many of my students. I have come to the conclusion that these children are generally struggling with note reading. Although they understand how to go about reading they find it too taxing and daunting. Since I have been using Playing With Colour books I have not experienced any such problems. These books take the hard work out of note reading. They end up reading perfectly well but have learnt in a slower and steadier pace. At the same time the coloured notes enable them to progress well with their playing so they dont become bored. I would certainly suggest you take a look at the website. Good luck.

I've been in this situation too, and I'm sure that many other teachers have as well. It does make you question your own ability a bit, but in fact is not your fault at all. The very fact that you are feeling so about it speaks for itself.

I've encountered parents who say that they don't want their child to feel any stress about learning the piano, to do it just for enjoyment. They seem to think that the information can in some way be diffused into the child without any effort. I used to agree gently with the parents and proceed, duly tearing my hair as the pupil didn't practise, learnt note names very slowly etc. But now I'm firm. Enjoyment of piano means that you put in the effort to learn and practise and therefore you become able to play competently and hence, enjoy the piano (and the fruits of your work). It doesn't always work, but presents your philosophy firmly, is true, and makes you feel better.

Could you set the pupils a goal - a concert, or the Prep Test, or LCM Step 1 or something appropriate, and explain to parents that you really feel that they need a goal to galvanise them into action. Maybe for some a different book might be appropriate as someone has suggested, although you seem to have been fairly thorough.

I sympathise - I have a whole school full of kids like this, 18 of them! (kids that is.) Luckily I have some star pupils at my other schools and privately, or i'd be totally depressed. Entering them for an exam, however basic, often brings them on, as they put the practice in when there's a goal to work for. Also make opportunities for performance, although that doesn't always work, some kids at this school have done some truly terrible performances! I'm going to try "Star of the Week" certificates, 1 for the most improved pupil each week, i'll see if that helps.

I like that idea, too. Do you make your own certificates or have you got a website that you use? (Sorry if I already asked you this on another thread!)