I have recently been approached by the parents of a young teenager who are hearing warning bells about the previous teacher.

The story so far. Young person dabbled around at the piano for some while, decided he wanted formal piano lessons and to take GCSE music at local grammar school.

Local teacher found, lessons commenced in November 2006. By February 2007 teacher wants him to take Grade 5. As weeks progress, the date of the exam is pushed ever further into the year, until a date was set for July 2007.
Young person and parents are feeling a little uneasy about this - all a bit hasty, perhaps.

They tracked me down and asked my opinion. I said that from November to July - Zero to Grade 5 is a bit of a steep incline - is he another Mozart??

I was asked to take him on, to which I agreed. At the first lesson, I asked to see the pieces he was preparing for Grade 5. One of them was produced and to my horror, every note had been lettered. I asked if the other two pieces had been given the same treatment, and his reply was that the other two pieces had not yet been chosen - FOR AN EXAM IN JULY ????
I asked what would happen if I gave him a "clean" copy of the one and only piece, and he readily admitted that he would not be able to play it.
To not bore you with other horrific tales, I move swiftly to the scales.
Scales??? What scales??? The young person had been told that he did not need to play scales. For this board, scales are NOT an option.
Sight-reading -what's that? Aural tests

Then in self-defence he tells me that "the others in the group need the letters on the music as well"
It seems he is learning Grade 5 piano - in a group of 4 - and being charged £12 for 30mins.

Have I missed my way?? Do I lack the art of money-making??

I am SO shocked to hear this... and it is not the boy's fault as such... this is terrible...

eeek!
sounds as though some incompetent thought he could make a quick buck.
Worse than my warning bells I think !

Hope you can rescue the situation for this boy, Diapason.

He/she is no better than the Rogue Traders you see on television

I suppose you get them in every line of work, but it's both shocking and sad when it has such a devastating effect on a child's development. Thank goodness these parents have seen the light, and hopefully word will get round....

I'm afraid it's shocking , but sadly this ort of thing does happen by the occasional unscrupulous individual. Sadly, it is difficult to enforce any quality control. An examiner for the AB I know said she had one notorious brass teacher who would only teach pieces - anything else they managed was a bonus. Scales ? No chance. She said she knew she was in for a bad week of exceptionally low marks when this teacher's pupils came in. Then, in contrast, she'd have a week at Chethams with stunning results. Whether the AB can take action or not when they see a teacher's results coming in consistently low, I don't know.

I've put a suggestion on the Chief Examiners thread - it would be good if the AB could do something.

Perhaps also good teachers could be more forthright in addressing the issue? If all good teachers had web sites and if all those web sites promoted (either directly or indirectly) what parents and students should be looking for in a good teacher, then bad teachers would find it more difficult to make a living out of trusting and unsuspecting pupils. This teacher's pupils probably think that his/her practices are the norm because they don't know any different....

bad teachers would find it more difficult to make a living out of trusting and unsuspecting pupils.

That's the unfortunate thing isn't it? For most people finding a private teacher is a total leap of faith, one which can sometimes go very wrong.

Good luck Diapason...hope he flourishes now with your help.

This makes me so mad!

Hopefully once the parents of your new student see the results he is getting with you, they will mention something to the other parents and word will get around.

This is so appalling. It's amazing people are prepared to pay so much for so little, but they obviously don't realise. I know I've had prospective parents say my fee is so much more than they pay for dancing lessons, when the child is in a group of 20 or 30 at dance class. Some parents have so little idea about music lessons, they can be taken in by somebody so unscrupulous. The trouble is, some people will be taken in because they're "on grade 5, already" & not realise they're not doing it properly. Eventually, people must realise, I suppose, when the whole class fails badly. What an ordeal the exam would be, too, as the pupils start to realise they haven't learnt any of the things they're being asked. I've had new pupils on occasion who have been very ill-prepared for an exam by a previous teacher, but never anything as bad as this.

I heard at an ABRSM seminar once that the Board can & occasionally does ban teachers from entering in a few cases when they've consistently entered candidates who are very well below the pass standard. I think it was Clara Taylor who said, but I'm not absolutely sure - it was some years ago.

I think I've heard that too. Presumably word will eventually get round about this teacher. Unfortunately, I don't think here is much you can do yourself.

Sorry, slightly off topic, but I can't understand the lack of interest that some parents take in their children's progress. The requirements for exams are all clearly printed in the exam booklets with the pieces - don't they read this and realise that something is wrong?

diapson: I usually hear this sort of thing happen in secondary school music departments i.e. GCSE work, but i'm shocked to hear this. Haven't the parents detected anything bad?

I assume you mean the exam syllabus. Parents with no musical background often don't realise that there is information freely available that they could look at and find out exactly what's required (even without Web access). Most of them probably don't read up on the school curriculum to check up on what and how their children are being taught. I've always felt that I have a specially heavy responsibility towards pupils who are first generation musicians in their families, and towards their parents. It's a new world and a new language for them. As an accompanist I often find myself explaining in detail to the parents of exam candidates what they have committed themselves and their children to. Some teachers are extremely bad at even making it clear what the exam entry fee covers, so the need to pay an accompanist comes as an unwelcome shock, often only a few weeks before the exam.

My reply is more about poor teaching rather than high fees for the same. There are a couple of teachers - Mrs X and Mrs Y who only charge about £2.50 for 30 mins in my town and take on a lot of pupils. Parents sometimes eventually realise the 'lack of teaching' they are getting for their £2.50. Doesn't always depend on exam results though.

So much depends on the pupil as some seem to get by on their natural talent and work hard to do well in spite of the teaching (or non-teaching). I recently took on a teenage pupil who had been with Mrs Y for years and had actually been getting very good results. But - this pupil has no idea of pedalling technique, on how to produce a good sound (her tone is very weak in the RH with a heavy LH) and her fingers collapse with a tight wrist when she strikes the keys. But she is very musical and can sight-read quite well, which has probably saved her in exams. She knows her scales for her last grade but has no idea how to make connections in the learning process. She was 'programmed ' to pass the exam. The parent said to me last week how relieved she was to hear actual teaching taking place and understands that it will take time to address the problems.

Another pupil I took on from Mrs X, had fingers that had no idea where to go, and was trying to strike the keys from somewhere in mid-air! It has taken 6 or 7 years of hard work to eradicate the faults. He is now improving.

As well as the con-teachers out for money, I think there is also danger of poor teaching from those who isolate themselves and probably don't realise the havoc they are causing.

All we can do is stay professional ourselves and hope that more parents/students will realise that piano is not just a casual hobby to be taken on lightly but a skill for life - and they need to research the teacher for teaching quality and not just the fee. The website idea could be a good one to help our cause!

BB

There was something similar occurring locally to me not so long ago - I'd had a couple of people phone me saying their child had "grade 1/2/3/4/whatever"and could I take them on. On meeting the kids it turned out they had a Grade x as named, numbered and certified by the crook who had the cheek to say he was "teaching" these kids, not by the AB/TG etc. NONE of them had ANY bass clef at all......in fact none of them had any KNOWLEDGE at all..........

I don't think it's something most parents would think that they needed to check up on except maybe by asking the teacher what the exam requirements are which wouldn't help if the teacher was not teaching the full syllabus.
What's so wrong in believeing the teacher knows what they are doing? If people didn't then they wouldn't be handing over their money in the first place.

This is a major bug bear of mine!!! I have "inherited" three students from tutors who did this...trying to get them to play without the letters on is difficult. I made myself a set of flash cards to try to teach them. They have no idea what the written note is. Sometimes I have resorted to writing the letters of all notes of the same pitch once on the score, but if there are (for example) ten middle C's then I refuse to write 'C' under each one. We are slowly but surely doing away with this...but then comes the discussion with mum and dad who say I should follow the previous teachers methods...

I was actually going to start a thread before I saw this one. A very similar thing has happened to me this week. I was approached by a mum whose 7 year old son has been learning for 3-4 months, but was slightly concerned about progress.

They came to meet me and for half an hour I sat with the boy at the piano finding out where he was. It felt odd as I didn't want to be openly critical, yet things kept coming up that made me want to say something!

He has been started straight onto John Thompson 2. He seems musical, but he's an ordinary 7 year old boy and I can't quite fathom the reason for hustling him along like that. Again, every piece has every letter name written under each note.

He can play two tunes from the book, with absolutely no rhythm besides the little he probably guessed from happening to know a tune like "3 Blind Mice" anyway. I gave him a very simple piece of treble clef music, 4 bars containing only middle C to G and he couldn't read it without the letters written in... Yet, he is being asked to play a tune in a book that goes way beyond these 5 notes.

He had never heard of a scale.

Mum sat in during this first time, and at the end asked if I would take the boy on. As long as they finish with the other teacher first that is OK although I felt a bit awkward. Luckily I don't know the teacher.

I've only been at this for a couple of years, and never thought I'd be in the position of wondering about someone else's teaching, so it feels odd to me.

I have to admit though that I was slightly reassured, despite being so concerned. Everytime I asked him something I kept thinking that after 3-4 months, any pupil who had started with me would have had no problem reading those notes, so it gives me a bit more confidence that I must be on the right track.

In principle, absolutely nothing, but unfortunately this thread has shown that not everyone who sets themselves up as a music teacher is worthy of that trust. It can take a long time for parents with no musical background to realise they are being robbed, because they don't know what to expect. I'm afraid matters are likely to get worse because music teaching in schools has been so undervalued and patchy for so many years now that there will be parents who have never experienced classical music at all, and probably wouldn't know where to start to find out about it.

I started teaching piano in a private school two years ago and inherited a bunch of kids who could only play piano with the notes written in.

I had to virtually start them at the beginning again, with a different book so I knew they were reading and not just playing from memory. One parent actually had the cheek to write in the letter names on the pieces I had set for that week in the child's book. I promptly rubbed them out and gave child a short lecture on WHY writing letter names in isn't helpful long term. Not child's fault so I wasn't cross with them or anything, just made it clear that that isn't how I work. It didn't happen again.

On reading this thread, I ask myself the question "don't people ask to see teachers' qualifications before hiring them?" I have a humble LGSM, which I proudly display, framed, above my piano. To get this, I had to take a practical exam, at least of grade 8 standard, a theory exam, beyond grade 5, plus sight reading and aural, and rigorous questioning about teaching methods and lesson planning. If I were a cowboy, I couldn't have passed this, so why don't they check?

If the parents haven't ever studied music, then they wouldn't understand what the qualifications mean. I was chatting to a non-musical friend recently who asked me whether grade one was higher or lower than grade eight. To me it was obvious, but I understand why she needed to ask. First class stamps are better than second class, so why wouldn't grade one piano be better than grade two?

If even the grades aren't obvious, then how can a parent hope to make their way through all those acronyms?

Also, lots of qualifications doesn't automatically equal a good teacher...

when you have parents enquiring about lessons, and they are puzzled to find the child needs something to practice on, it's hardly surprising that they aren't aware of the exam structure or of qualifications I guess.

Also Nicki is right - even some of the more - erm - clued-up parents are keen to find someone who interacts well with their child, rather than someone who is well qualified. This is not to say that qualifications don't count - but in fact I'm rarely asked about mine.

As a parent (and not a great music expert - but perhaps a bit more clued up than some parents, having played piano myself), I must admit that I chose my son's piano teacher on the recommendations of friends, and a gut feeling that he would get on with her, as well as my impressions when I met her. I am not sure about her qualifications, but she teaches up to Grade 8 standard and has been teaching for 25 years. She had a detailed discussion with my son about his musical requirements, which set my mind at rest, and has started him off with a good book - Microjazz (beginner book) - he has started doing scales and is also doing composition. She told me that she teaches theory, and I know that her pupils do well in theory exams. I would have found it embarrasing to quiz her on her qualifications (I am sure a lot of parents feel like this) but in my humble opinion all of the above factors point to her being a good teacher. She is very enthusiastic, and my son likes her.

When I think about when I set up as a teacher, I was extrememly concerned that I would have the skills to bring on pupils and teach solid technique in all of my instrument. Instruments that I took at degree level, and with the musical knowledge a music degree can provide. I read, re-read, too advice from colleagues and now am pleased with what I have built up.

However, as Diapason has found out, not all music teachers approach the job with this amount of care and discipline. It's clear that here the contributers who do teach do. This was one thing that drew me to the forums, the opportunity to share with like-minded people teaching dilemmas, practice dilemmas and stimulate debate.

Back to the topic, I hope Diapason sorts this problem out. I feel very sorry for the lad at the centre of this. Be prepared to use letter names. I don't know about you but I keep coming out with stock phrases such as "you can see your face in the spaces when the stave has a treble clef" I sing note names at pupils, play along with them reinforcing all aspects of reading music. With gentle coaxing I'm sure you'll win Diapason.

There is a local singing teacher who I have similar concerns about, so you're not alone. I've inherited some of his pupils and have had to do a lot of work sorting out placing.

All the indicators are good here, Chris!

I agre - As a teacher I am hardly ever offered about my qualifications so I now make a point of telling people about them - not to brag, just sort of in passing to reassure them that they don't have to initiate that conversation - it IS difficult to bring it up in a nice friendly one to one chat! I don't display certificates prominently but I do put letters after my name on letterheads and such, although those letters - what do they all mean anyway? Most parents and pupils definitely think grade 8 is the pinnacle of achievement and there is nothing after that.. . I also always try to be clear about exactly how lowly my ALCM is!

Kind of related - I told my flute student's parents I would be entering her for her exam with a lady who does a local special visit, and that the entry would have to go in about a month before the exam.

I didn't realise how completely I had been misunderstood till her dad got hold of a copy of the syllabus and regs and asked me, a few days before the closing date for entries, "did I realise the closing date is on Friday?" Student hadn't done a flute exam before, and I think they probably had only just found out that the syllabus etc was freely available. It is a new world to some parents, even if their offspring have done exams before, and even to those who are very interested in their kids' progress.

Why? You worked for it! Also, putting yourself down (by devaluing your qualification) may send out the wrong message to parents. I think you should be proud of your letters, you worked hard to get them and deserve to enjoy the results!

Until I came on here I didn't know there was anything higher than grade 8... had never even noticed the letters after my teacher's name on exam certificates - I was pretty lucky I think, to find a good teacher by chance..

I was going to say exactly the same thing. I took my ALCM years ago back in 1987 and it was a very rigorous assessment. I had to do a three hour rudiments of theory, harmony and counterpoint paper and I didn't put my head up for air for the whole time (I left the exam with a neck ache from the concentration). The practical involved all the scales and arpeggios, (upside down and right way up, every way you can think of), sight-reading and a hefty aural section, as well as three pieces. A complete Bach Prelude and Fugue from the 48, a Haydn sonata (first mv) and I chose Schoenberg's Six Little Piano Pieces.

I practised for three hours every morning for a whole year and I had a wonderful teacher or I would never have passed it.

Okay the diploma has now been up-dated and priorities have changed to more holistic approaches, but be proud of your achievement and don't listen to people who say the ALCM isn't worth anything.

I have an ALCM too - be proud of what you have achieved

Snap! My ALCM dates from 1988 too!

We're giving away our age!!

Did you go to 48 Marlborough Street for the exam? I remember going to have lunch afterwards in Libertys to relax after that theory paper!

Exactly, it was very civilised and I rewarded myself by wandering around their dressmaking department too (I think I felt that I would hopefully have some extra time on my hands )