Today, there was a student who perform "Fantaisie-Impromptu" in front of our class and he got 20 out of 20. He studied Grade 7 in 2005/2006 (I've forgotten)and has a big handspan. What is the grade of "Fantaisie-impromptu"? On my opinion, it is at least Grade 8. But he can play this song just learning for 3 weeks! Moreover, he has never played a piece with 4 against 3 before! He doesn't have any major problems in my music teacher and my eyes, except he can be a bit more emotional when he is playing. Do you think he is a genius?

P.S. Maybe he gets full marks is just only because the music teacher just require us to show some skills and play a repertoire which is more difficult than our level. Otherwise, I can't think of any reasons why I can also get full mark by playing "Pathetique" when I play a few notes wrongly and just play at a tempo of m.m. 168? But I still feel satisfied to my performance.

There have been a number of other threads on Fantasie Impromptu. Its certainly about Dip A. standard

Yep, about Dip standard. Did he play the whole piece (i.e. Major Section, and revisiting of Section A with ending)? And how long did he take to reach Grade 7 (and what did he get)? He may not have played 4 against 3 on another piece before, but that does not mean to say that he sight-read the piece (that would be impressive). Was there anybody there present of a higher grade or knew the piece well to recognise any mistakes he may have made or poor execution of the piece?

Depending on several factors, he:
a) is a fast learner, and truly can play the piece well
b) spent the last 3 weeks solidly solely learning this piece
c) because there was no one there that had heard the piece before, no one could tell that he was making a lot of errors and playing the piece with poor execution

So, based on these factors, it all depends... But on the whole, in order for the piece to be played well, it should be played among that of a Dip standard.

~Wobby~

I've heard pre-grade 8 people play it, but I think to play it properly you need to be diploma standard

I'm diploma standard and I can't play it properly at a reasonable tempo, which I think it needs.
I spent several weeks - maybe months - trying, and I can play all of it well some of the time, but can never quite hold myself together to make a half-decent job of it all in one go. So I'd put it well past first diploma level. Or is that just me? Do you think maybe it's a stamina thing with this piece?

grade = very difficult to get the notes right, even harder to reach past the notes to the music.

I can get past the notes if you can get past the fact that they're not the right notes.

Can you play all the right notes just not necessarily in the right order?

I agree. I don't find the notes that difficult; I haven't tried learning it, but I've sightread-bashed my way through it a couple of times. If you're willing to have wrong notes, it would be possible to learn it in a few weeks. Regarding the 3v4, well, if you bash your way through LH and RH, then you neccessarily get the 3v4 (ish).

But! To play it well; to get a very high proportion of the notes right; to truly play and feel and understand the 3v4? That's much, much harder. And to do that with true feeling, not just virtuosity? I'd definitely put it at dipabrsm, post-dipabrsm.

So, to play it to a mediocre standard, I wouldn't say you need to be much above grade 7-8. But to play it well, dip to post-dip.

Genius? We weren't there. We didn't hear how he played it.

Though, I have to say, I doubt it very much, and I find the description of "genius" in music a very overused one. To me, genius in music is something which isn't age-related or speed-of-learning-related. It's something where you can distinguish it just by listening to a recording of the musician, and it comes through, whether they're playing To a Wild Rose or Rach 2.

Definitely agree with that! I can play the notes right up until the last section (but about 12 short of 180) and that rather twiddly bit in the middle of the major section, and even the 3v4 isn't too much of a challenge (same applies to Debussy's Abaresque, which is Grade 8), but to get the right touch and feeling to the piece is the part that puts the line up between Grade 8 playing and Dip playing!

On a further note about the 3v4 thing, you should check out a certain section from Gaspard de la Nuit! I managed to obtain a copy, and am currently trying to master a bit in the middle, just for fun (seeing as I have the copy) - the fortissimo bit! Now that is probably a much harder fit than the 3v4 in Chopin. Actually, I'm rather curious to know whether it is meant to be a perfect 7 to 6, etc... or whether it's meant to just be a rough outline to the order and synchronisation of the notes, because keeping to exact timings may seem a bit mechanical?

As for the genius thing, I agree with that mostly too... however, I would put up the exception for a 1 month old child that manages to play Scarbo in quick succession with Clavicemballisticum (I haven't even heard the piece, but I have heard of it, and from what I've heard, it takes a master to play it)!

~Wobby~

I've heard Stephen Peterkin, who some people met at Leicester, play Fantasie Impromptu several times now. Most notably on my Piano after a musical Society post Pant party when he was, to be brutaly honest, completely drunk! Played it very well too.

He seems able to play it in his sleep - amazing really!

I think the hardest bit is bars 17-21, when the stress is on the upper notes of the octaves in the RH rather than the more obvious lower ones. My co-ordination tends to fall apart here if I try to do this well rather than just get the notes right. Anyone else find this?

I find this part is where my right hand starts to ache because I have small hands

My friend's dad has a video of me playing this when I was 15 in a school concert, I haven't really played it since, I must nag them for a copy

Putting marks on musical performance is a vexed issue. Try not to feel bitter about it though....The history of music is full of great musicians who bore grudges against other great performers and it can't be healthy - Bach and Marchand, Mozart and Clementi, Beethoven and Himmel (was it?). Try to enjoy your own playing and your own progress and not compare yourself to others.... Difficult in an assessment situation I know!

I think it has a demanding tempo, and i agree that bars 17-21 are hardest

To play it well, with all of the modulatory changes in a smooth transition, it must be Dip. level