I have an 11 year old student who will be doing her Grade 1 exam in July. Her lessons have always been something of a challenge because she's very moody and difficult to communicate with and cries very easily. (I mentioned her recently on another thread.) She's an only child and mum likes to sit in on every lesson. I've taught this girl for around 3 years and her progress has (obviously) been slow. There have been quite a few times when I've suggested to her mum that perhaps she should take a break from lessons, as she just doesn't seem to enjoy playing, but I've been assured that she does. I suggested trying for Grade 1 because I thought it might motivate her and give some structure to her lessons. They both agreed that it would be a good thing. She is managing to play two of her pieces fairly well (although still not up to speed), but is struggling with the third one. Her scales are weak, despite lots of work on my part and her sight reading is also poor, though improving slowly. Her aural tests are worryingly weak, because she has absolutely no confidence and at the moment she won't even try to sing and can't seem to even tap a beat. Today she brought her granny, who is visiting, to her lesson (she had told me last week that she would) and I had thought this would encourage her to do well, but after 10 minutes, she was in tears again. I should quickly add that I'm a very kind, patient teacher (in case you're all thinking otherwise!) and the most important thing for me is that my students enjoy playing. She's the only one who reacts in this way and, as you can all imagine, it's not a nice experience for me. When she left today (with both mum and granny looking quite annoyed with her) I was left wondering what I can possibly do to turn things round before the exam.
Any suggestions would be most gratefully received!

Yeah, you are highlighting about 4 weak areas in the exam, out of six; that's not a particularly good prospect. Are you sure it's wise to enter her at all? I fully respect your motives and the original idea that prompted the decision, reached jointly between teacher-pupil-parent. However, though I'd be inclined on principle to go for it if there are two weak areas, four might just be pushing it rather too far - for June I presume you mean. December might be a more feasible alternative.

As I may have said before in response to yourself or a similar poster - maybe about the self-same girl, it just worries me that two other generations of her family can sit in on her lesson and not be distressed when she is obviously distressed. I would be inclined to make the point more strongly that this girl needs a break from your lessons - you are a kind, approachable and understanding teacher. If this is the effect you have on her, it doesn't bode well for how she'll cope in the big bad world. You said that "you were reassured" that she enjoyed playing etc, well does that mean that you heard it convincingly uttered from the girl's own mouth, or were Mum and Granny the puppeteers?

LR

maybe the mum is the weak link? i certainly wouldn't want to have had my lessons with my parents sat in the room. have you suggested that maybe she should try lessons without the mum there?

Get rid of the mum and the granny and then see how she behaves. Try to make her giggle a lot at mistakes rather than cry too. I find tht doing silly voices helps when things go wrong! It usuallu raises a big grin rather than tears, but not so easy to do if a parent is there!

I find tht doing silly voices helps when things go wrong!

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who does that!

I agree - see how she gets on without anyone sitting in on the lesson! When I was a child I'd have been absolutely horrified at the idea of doing aural tests etc. with my mum sitting there watching!

Tell the mum that as her daughter will have to do the exam on her own she must get used to being in the room with just one other person....

Yes, I did suggest to the mum a few weeks ago that the girl might do better without her there, but the next week she just turned up as usual. I think I have to insist now and just see what happens. By the way, today was the first time that granny came to the lesson - she's visiting them at the moment and I was asked last week if she could come along, so that she could listen. Apparently she's paying for the exam. I must admit that she seemed unmoved by the girl's distress and, as I said, they both seemed annoyed with her at the end. Horrible situation.

I agree with the comments that the mother (and grandmother) need to be removed from the room. I find my students are more relaxed, more open and more confident without a parent there.

With my aural students who don't like to sing, I put my hands over my ears & sing very loudly for the first couple of times so that they can hum quietly to themselves & once they realise that they can sing in tune, or pitch the notes I'm playing they don't mind me hearing them. (I think it also amuses them to see their teacher being so immature! )

One more thing ... if she cries easily in a friendly lesson situation, surely she is going to lose it completely in the exam environment? Even if the mother has paid the money, I'm sure she would agree that it might be better not to put her daughter in a high pressure situation that she can't cope with.

Phew what a relief to know it's not just me!! Am much less inhibited when no grownups are present.

I only have one student whose dad stays while i teach, and that's because he's only 6. If they are not willing to support you in trying to make their child an independant musician, then i would seriusly question continuing with the teaching.

It also sounds to me like Mum is probably quite pushy. Removing her might give the child a chance to do better, but if she is simply not getting any better, then you have to call it a day. Remember, music lessons should be rewarding for all parties. I'm a music teacher, not a dentist. I don't want to pull teeth hour after hour.

so true!

My daughter started the cello when she was 6 1/2. I didn't want to sit in but her teacher asked me to. On about the 3rd lesson I had to leave half way through (to pick up other daughter) and the following week her teacher said that actually it would be better if I didn't sit in at all as my daughter was a lot more relaxed when I wasn't there (which is what I had said in the first place). The teacher just used to ask me to come in for a few minutes when the lesson was finished to explain to me what my daughter was supposed to be working on.

Jenny, one thing no one has mentioned is practice. If the mother is there then she is in the position of being able to tell you how much the student is practising and whether or not she is doing the work you set her in the lesson.

Do you speak with the mother (or the student) about this? What is the response?

As someone who cries easily, and also as a student, I have to say please try to get rid of the mum! If you can see her reactions when hermum isn't there, and you can maybe reassure her that people aren't going to be angry when she makes mistakes, she might relax a bit and progress better.

I have a friend whose mum sort of pushes her into too many things, and I know that she has regular panic attacks and breakdowns at the prospect of disappointing her mother... maybe if she's convinced her mum will never find out about mistakes she'll panic less... Also if her mum's not there you can check how much she's really enjoying lessons....

My son is 13 and having piano lessons (taking grade 2 next month) and his teacher actually prefers it if we sit in. I think this is unusual.

When I was 12 (ish) two of us went to the same teacher and our parents car-pooled, so she had no-where to go during my lesson and vice versa (most frustrating to listen to - she went from scratch to grade 8 in the time it took me to go from grade 4 to grade 5!). Even so, the teacher wouldn't have us in the room for one anothers lessons: She put a chair in the hallway of the house and we had to sit and wait there.

I talk quite a lot about the importance of regular practice and have gone into detail about how to practise, especially since we started on the exam work - all the usual things, like breaking down the pieces into sections and working with seperate hands first and then slowly with both etc. The mum seems to take it all in but the girl herself doesn't talk much anyway, so I just have to hope that she does too. I have felt that because mum has always been there, at least she sees the problems and can hopefully help at home with reminders. I've no idea what goes on at home - we all know so little about our students really, with only seeing them for such a short time each week - but mum assures me that regular practice is being done. But I have to admit, there's little to show for it.

Having lost sleep over this (you'll see that from my time of writing!) I've decided to talk to the mum today and tell her how concerned I am over the situation. I'm going to insist that she drops the girl off next week and leaves her on her own and that I'm going to use the lesson to find out if she's really going to be able to do the exam. I'll then try to find out why the girl reacts like this, which probably won't be easy. If I find that she doesn't really want to do the exam, I'm going to tell mum that I'm pulling her out. I fear, as you do, that she could completely break down in an exam situation. I've never experienced anything like this before and I've been teaching for a long time.

I think that you're quite right to do this. I also agree with pulling her out of the exam. Then in a way you can start again on a different footing without mother sitting in, and see what happens.

Do you have little concerts for the pupils to play to each other? It would be interesting to see how she coped then.

sorry to hear it's costing you sleep Jenny ! but I agree with Susie - I think you are right to insist on what you have outlined. Good luck and let us know how it goes !

I would tell Mum that, at her next lesson, you are going to give your pupil a "mock exam" and, as the exam room is a place for the candidate and examiner only - very important by now that Mum understands she won't be allowed in the exam room or, if ABRSM regs are followed outside the door - you want to give her the next lesson without anyone present except you. Then stick to it - if Mum turns up insist she leaves or you won't teach.

Then, assuming Mum goes, give the child the exam (as best as you are able, just running methodically through each item in order and saying nothing but "thank you" at the end of each bit) and see how she copes. You might even give her a "mark" based on how she's done. That should either encourage her (if she does well) or help her to realise she's got a lot to do if she's going to pass.

From a distance it's very hard to assess what's going on here but this looks like a child with major problems in the family - some people cannot show affection and love publicly and, sadly, even in private to their children. Interestingly, I have the opposite problem with one of my Mums, who's just lovely really but who insists on kissing her two daughters goodbye and wishing them luck and joy when she drops them off for their lessons. Now, that was fine when they were 10 and 8 years of age but now they're almost 16 and 14 they don't appreciate it quite so much and the children (and I) are often a bit embarrassed quite frankly. Still rather that than a cold attitude any day.

Please try to stop losing sleep over your pupil - but bless you for your concern for her. I'd try the very firm approach (sometimes it's the only one parents understand) and see where that gets you.

Good luck and keep us posted.

If the entry has already gone in then it might be tricky trying to pull her out.... unless you are prepared to refund the exam fee yourself. I wouldn't be prepared to have paid for something then not get it! Though if the girl is really struggling you may be able to convince the parent that as the effort has not been put in the girl is not really as ready as you'd expected and it might be kinder to pull out.

As far as what the girl takes in of your instructions goes I generally get my younger ones at least (and older ones if i don't think they were listening) to repeat the instructions back to me. I do this whether the parent is present or not and if I think the parent will be helpful I also ask whether they undertood what I've said.

I hope you get the situation sorted out soon.

I think that you're quite right to do this. I also agree with pulling her out of the exam. Then in a way you can start again on a different footing without mother sitting in, and see what happens.

Do you have little concerts for the pupils to play to each other? It would be interesting to see how she coped then.
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Yes, I do have concerts - the next one is coming up quite soon. I actually changed the date because it was planned on the same day as her birthday (I hadn't realised) and she cried when she found out. So she has played in front of an audience on a few occasions. She is quite nervous about it, but has never refused to play, but I choose her pieces carefully and make sure she plays something she's comfortable with.






Will do - many thanks to you all for the advice. It makes such a difference to share problems with others who know what you're going through! I'll give the idea of a mock exam some thought - at least it would give her a taste of what to expect. Will let you know what happens at her next lesson.

To keep you all in touch - I just had an e-mailed reply to say that the girl will be dropped off next week for her lesson and that whatever she and I decide about the exam is fine by mum! She sounded very supportive and didn't seem to mind about me pulling her out of the exam if that's what I decide. She said she just wants what's best for the girl and promised not to get upset or angry with her, whatever she decides.
I must admit I wasn't expecting her to respond in that way. Too good to be true? Or I am being really cynical??

Just to let you know I gave the girl in question a lesson this morning.
Mum dropped her off as promised and I spent the first few minutes trying to get her to talk to me about how she was feeling. There were some tears at first, but she opened up more than I had thought she would. There are some family problems (as we all suspected) and also some health problems. She admitted she felt "scared" about the exam. I suggested that the exam could wait until the autumn and she seemed to like the idea. Then I told her that I would go through all the parts of the exam with her and would write down my thoughts about how she would do in each section if she did the exam this time. We agreed that if we both felt that she wasn't ready we would postpone the exam until the autumn.
To my great surprise (and pleasure) she did much better in every section than ever before. She seemed much more relaxed and I kept it all light-hearted. Even the aural tests were okay - I got her to whistle instead of sing, which worked really well. She could see that she is ready to do the exam and is now willing to do it. When mum came to pick her up, I called her in and told her exactly what had been said and done. She seemed happy. And the girl went away smiling!
It's obvious that being here without mum made a big difference and I feel that we had something of a breakthrough.
Many thanks for all your support!

Fantastic! Well done for sticking to your guns and insisting on seeing the girl alone. She will probably do really well in the exam, now that some of the pressure is off - do let us know what happens! Mum seems to have got the message too. Sounds like you handled it all really well.

Good result! I expect you feel a lot better now, and probably your pupil does too, so best of luck for the next few weeks - I'm sure everything will be all right for the exam. At least you can get some sleep now!