Hi,

I am teaching an adult pupil some Chopin pieces from op28 and we recently started the Prelude in A. I would like some advice please in how to deal with the dominant 7th chord in bar 12. Is the chord meant to be struck all in one go or is it meant to be arpeggiated?

I'm using the version in Piano Lessons Book Three p63 (Waterman and Harewood) but in an older Oxford Original edition there are fewer notes in the LH and the 7th is missing, indicating that an F sharp, C sharp and A sharp above middle C could be stretched by a large hand, adding the 7th higher up in the RH. However, I have very small hands so I have to arpeggiate. Does it matter in which order the chord notes are arpeggiated and organised between the hands? Would you strike just one note or more in the bass, catch with the pedal and spread the rest? I'm looking for the most effective method please.

On the other hand did Chopin put the chord there as an indicator of a moment in which to improvise with the dominant 7th in free time?

I remember this Prelude used in the ballet Les Sylphides and it was easy to respond in dance movement to the ethereal quality of the music. However, I didn't pay attention to what happened to the chord at the time!

Any advice will be much appreciated.

Memo to self: Must buy an urtext edition of the Chopin preludes.

As it is, I don't have a copy and no doubt someone who does will be able to answer this better, but in general terms it would be a VERY odd editor who added notes to any piece, particularly Chopin, which suggests that the simpler version may have been precisely that - simplified.

Also, I could be wrong, but I think the general practice of writing a note or chord and expecting the player to improvise around it was a baroque convention and not one which Chopin used: If he wanted it done a certain way, that's how he wrote it and if you didn't play what he wrote you were wrong! Allegedly that's why he disliked his pupils playing from memory - they might miss or misplay an ornament or dynamic.

If you can't play it as written you would have no choice but to arpeggiate. Victor Merzhanov playing at the Moscow Coservatory (on youtube) arpegiates the left hand. If it's good enough for him . . .

Thank you for the tip to watch Merzhanov. I watched and listened avidly to the video - fabulous. He made it look as easy as falling of a log didn't he!

I have just looked up some information about Chopin from an OU course. He did actually improvise in performance and often made changes to pieces at the last minute and even after publication. It is very hard to say that an edition represents a definitive version. Not very helpful for us trying to decide how to interpret a chord like the one I'm asking about.

Improvisation was important in Classical concertos as well, for example as cadenzas in Mozart's slow movements - although pianists sometimes had one written out for them or used the composer's version if they didn't want to make one up on the spot.

I think I will get my pupil to watch the Merzhanov video. It was so expressive.

I'm playing this atm. =]] and my hands are WAY too small to play that. but this is what the foreword in my book [its AB dont know what edition sorry] says :

"Avoid the dreadful "spreading" of the chord in bar 12. If you cannot stretch the notes, omit the lowest one in the R.H and the highest one in the L.H. "

hope that helps =]

Personally, I would prefer if the chord was played all in one go. I would suggest omitting notes rather than spreading the chord.

Ah - I think I might some reasoning here. As far as I know Chopin used to compose pieces especially for a pupil with fingerings to suit. I believe he was very keen on preparing a new fingering for a new pupil learning the same music. Could it be that the bar 8 chord in the Prelude is a bit like a 'template' from which to select the notes and choose the fingering that the individual performer can comfortably reach - making sure of course that the essential harmonies are there. I think I might go along with the 'playing all in one go'. I think I heard this before somewhere which is why I started the thread because I really wasn't all that happy about arpeggiating.

I still like the Merzhanov performance though.

Thanks for all your replies. I will print them out for my pupil. Al least she will see i've done some work on her behalf!

P.S. and wow - a personal reply from the composer himself. It looked very strange on the Forum list when it said 'Chopin's Prelude in A op28 - last post from Frederick Chopin!

I hadn't realized this thread was so far down, however:

After reading this thread, and contributing, I ran off a copy of this piece (from an off-copyright website) a few days ago just to play through. Then I accidentally picked it up with the rest of my music this morning to take to my lesson. Guess what was the first thing to fall out? Rather than just put it away again my teacher said "lets jut play through it" so we did. She had three ideas for that awkward spread chord, (all of which involved playing the left hand as written):

1) arpeggiate as two chords (i.e. bottom two notes together, then the other three)
2) arpeggiate as a completely broken chord, a la Russian school (she is ex-staff at St Petersburg Conservatoire)

OR (drum roll, this is the point of the post)

3) if your right hand is big enough, play both the bottom two notes of the right hand chord with the thumb, at the same time, reaching across two keys (you press the lower key with the side of the end of the thumb and the upper key with the side of the metacarpo-phalangeal joint or MPJ). This means you can now play the whole chord as one, with no arpeggiation and no missed notes!

BTW, the MPJ is the second one down from the end, where the thumb joins the hand

Yes, I have always played it as you described in (3). Good editions will actually suggest this fingering where the right thumb takes the two lowest notes in the RH.

Many thanks for this - I've printed off your replies and I'll have a go when I get off the forums and start practising!

Just for fun I've just measured my hand - it's tiny! 6" from tip of finger 3 to the wrist, 3" across my palm, and my stretch from finger 2 to thumb is 4" (5" when I've done some Tankard or some Beringer). I think I might have some trouble but I will work on it

Thanks again for reviving my thread before it disappeared off the end of the list!

In the version I have it is indicated you play both the A# and the C# with your thumb. I can reach from A# to C#[oct] so this allows me to play this, if you can't do this then you will have to ommit notes then yes.


Edit: In fact it's easier to reach A# to C#[oct] if you can depress both A# and C# with your thumb.
Edit2: I see this has been said, sorry.

Looking closely I suspect it is the same with mine - I hadn't twigged what [1 (note the square bracket) next to the notes meant!

From my version, It shows the dominant seventh chord to be played at the same time, and in my opinion, it sounds better then being arpeggiated