I am confused about the exact meaning of intonation and how this can be applied to the skill of the performer. I found various meanings:

1) The original meaning seems to derive from very early chants for the voice in finding the right pitch.

2) Also intonation seems to be about tuning (mean tone, equal temperament etc. currently being discussed in the thread about Bach's 48).

3) Another definition is from a music dictionary where it says 'the true or false judgment of pitch by a performer is referred to as good or bad intonation' (Collins 1959, 283).


So my question is if 2) is applied to string players does it mean they can tune their instrument accurately or if 3) does it mean they can find the correct notes using aural perception? If the latter does the player rely on recognition of single pitches or the relationship between them?

So if 3) is correct is it possible to say that a pianist can have good or bad intonation even though the player does not physically tune the instrument. Is finding the right note at the right time considered 'true...judgment of pitch' (1959, 283) even though the sound cannot be physically altered by the pianist? Or can it? What about tone and colour and how one pianist can make a piano sound different to another player on the same instrument?

Could be a minefield this one but any ideas would be great.
I know its a Bank Holiday Monday!!

I'm not a string player but I think I'm on safe ground in saying that "tuning" in this case means making sure that the strings sound exactly the correct notes (GDAE or whatever the case may be) when played "open". Intonation is about the pitch of the notes you play when your fingers are on the strings.

I would bet the house that they were not talking about the piano, or the xylophone, or any other instrument where you either hit the right note or you miss it and hit something else. Finding the right note at the time is an important part of music-making but it ain't nothing to do with intonation.

(I mentioned xylophone there as a slightly whimsical example, but having brought percussion into this I should say that intonation is absolutely crucial when playing timpani, where the player does physically tune the instrument.)

Tone and intonation are not the same thing. What you refer to here are major issues regarding piano playing, but they have nothing to do with intonation.

Interesting thread! Very philosophical for a Bank Holiday ...

A brilliantly worded response - thank you very much SonataForm. Some might be thinking I should already know all this having an MA but I think it just goes to show that perhaps one can only properly understand something with practical experience. I'm not a string player and I have only seen the word 'intonation' crop up on my stepson's cello reports without really knowing the teaching and learning processes behind it.

I really admire AB examiners who have to assess all instruments. Do they get training to make sure they can comment accurately on reports. They must be amazing musicians to get through the interviews. Perhaps the AB could make a DVD or the BBC a programme about how music examiners are selected and trained. I for one would find that fascinating.

PS Hooray - I'm now an Advanced Member! - perhaps I'll give it a rest for a few days - this is all very addictive!

Just you wait and see how addictive! *looks at post count in shock*

As for intonation,my conductor is always shouting it at all and sundry, mainly strings but also clarinets if we couldn't be bothered to tune beforehand, or where we go into the top register and have a mini argument over which pitch/fingering is the correct one I've always understood it as the tuning you do while playing the instrument, so pressing the string in exactly the right place rather than a little sharp/flat. That would suggest to me it can't be applied to piano.

Hi Rosemary - thanks for your reply. Your post count is impressive I don't think I'll ever be a top poster!

I will conclude then that good intonation happens during performance through effective breathing or pressing the string in the right place (and a host of other things I'm sure) but it is also about careful tuning and preparation of the instrument beforehand.

This message should probably go on Viva 'something else', but as a pianist I want to understand and feel confident about discussing issues which concern other instruments. It could be useful to know how to help a student if in an accompanying situation as well.

It certainly could, but you're probably more likely to have to help with the basic tuning before the piece starts. I've had to do this a lot at festivals (always with wind and brass players - never strings so far because the teachers have always been there to help) and it's a good idea to know at least the basics.

Most people know which bit to adjust to change the tuning but not necessarily which way to adjust it. The rule of thumb is that you pull the relevant bit out (increasing the tube length) to flatten the note and push it in (reducing the length) to sharpen it. It's then up to you to suggest how much either of these things has to be done. Make sure they blow reasonably hard - at least a good strong mf, because if they play ppp it won't be relevant to how they then play the piece, and you might find the tuning is way out from the very first note.

Watch out for transposing instruments (an A played on an Eb instrument sounds F#, for example), and bear in mind that a lot of wind and brass players actually tune to a concert Bb rather than a concert A. It's worth asking what note they usually play when they're tuning (and transpose if necessary) but sometimes they don't know that!

If all attempts at tuning still mean they're playing slightly flat, it may be that the instrument hasn't been warmed up enough, and it will probably come in tune during the piece. However, I did once encounter someone whose clarinet wouldn't get within a semitone of the correct note, so I had to transpose the whole piece down a semitone! Transposing is not my favourite sport, so that was a bit of a trial ...

That's all really useful - thanks again! I'm off hopefully for that 'breve' rest I promised myself as of tomorrow for a couple of days - there won't be a computer anywhere near me. Just the sea and a good book!

Have fun! I'm hardly a top poster though - you should see CE's post count! Glad mine was useful - good for you, wanting to know about other instruments! I would wander around the other viva forums - you'll pick up such interesting things as the agonies of reeds for us woodwind players, for example, and probably a lot of more interesting stuff that escapes my memory right now!