So, does anyone on here have any fake qualifications that mean they can put letters after their name, or qualifications they have bought?

I myself am able to put letters after my name....

Sarah ?????? Hkt.B



Edit/ Also does anyone know of qualifications than one can simply buy?

No, I only have real ones after my name

What do yours mean, and why do you want to buy more?

Hello Sarah...

Why on earth would anyone want to put fake letters after their name...I can only see somone doing this if they wish to decieve people...

Not quite sure as to the reason for your post...enlighten us please...do you wish to put letters after your name...if so why? if it isnt true and the person doesn't have the qualifications whats the point

Mine are very special and are top secret

Ok, mine basically mean I am a Hereditary Knight of the Templar

I don't particularly want to buy any, I am just curious as to the availability of these qualifications etc.

Do you actually use those letters at all Sarah?

And at the risk of being rude - did you actually pay for them?

The topic has arisen from someone I know saying how they acquired a fake degree off of the internet for a small fee. I was just curious. I myself am not after letters to put after my name, as I do not agree with it. One should only use letters if one has aquired them in the proper manner.



Haha, no I do not use those letters. I acquired them as a foke after my dad did some research on them after reading The Davinci Code. Of course I didn't pay for them. I have much better things to spend my money on, such as new saxophone reeds

Okay, it all makes sense now!

I was wondering the polite way to ask how much money you spent (wasted? ) on them!

It is a strange yet intruiging concept that people actually would pay money for these things. Especially if you're going to lie about your skills, you may as well not bother purchasing them & just use the letters anyway!

I guess it gives the people who fake their qualification a small feeling that their qualification is real as they had to do something to get it, the something just happens to be paying copius amounts of money in some cases.

You could just put letters on the end of your name and say it was given to you for the work you did helping your mum out at home. It's just that no-one would recognise it.

It probably would be quite easy for someone to put false qualifications after their name - e.g. when advertising for pupils. I've certainly never had anyone ask for proof when enquiring about lessons. I did have to supply photocopies when joining ISM & EPTA & applying for a post-grad course, but I didn't when applying for my job as a peri (but I think I would have to if applying now).

I heard of someone running a stables who always put MKC after their name. Turned out it stood for "Member of the Kennel Club"!

In general terms I cannot imagine why anyone would want to pay for a false qualification - if it's false you may as well make it up yourself. Those who sell them are merely parasites preying on the gullible.

I've worked with a couple of people who had forged real (medical) qualifications though. One of these doctors was simply awful and was detected within minutes by his complete lack of knowledge, inappropriate attitude etc.

The other was actually rather good and was on his third 6 month job in a teaching hospital before, half way through a professorial ward round, he legged it to the back of the ward and down the fire escape about a minute before the police arrived to arrest him. We never found out who tipped him off (& they caught him eventually!) The point is, his MB BS & BSc were all forged - he had never been to medical school or any other university in his life, and yet his last reference was both genuine and excellent: He really was a good doctor and had natural gifts as a surgeon: If only he had bothered to go through the system . . .

I know of a music "teacher" who puts his nursing qualifications after his name on his music website. Joe Public wouldn't know the difference, so it is misleading. He advertises teaching his instruments to a MUCH higher standard than he is qualified himself. Phoney!

Why would anyone want to buy a fake qualification... arent they only cheating themselves??

How can one be allowed to have letters after their name for a "qualification" that comprises of merely joining an organisation? Is that not a bit pointless?

David, can you enlighten us on the entry criteria for the organisations which form part of your Scrabble set of post-nominals? Is it just "pay us your membership and have these letters" or is it "you need to have cleared this academic hurdle before you can join"?

Husband has MA MIET on his business cards. The MA should speak for itself; the MIET is Member of the Institute of Engineering and Technology, who have strict entry criteria, usually a minimum of a first degree in engineering awarded by a recognised university.

Ok, it's a membership, but what is the point in having random letters after your name? What do you gain from it? More pupils, thinking that you're a good teacher because of these endless lists of letters, when infact as far as I am aware you just bought them?

I suppose I could add the letters MIAM (Member of the Institute of Advanced Motorists) for which I had to pass a fairly testing exam, but being a surgeon with something that could be misread as MAIM doesn't appeal.

Come to that, I could add MBADS (British Association of Day Surgery), MAES (Association of Endoscopic Surgeons), MASGBI (Association of Surgeons of Great Britain and Ireland), MBHS (British Hernia Society) etc, full membership of any of which requires qualification, but no-one ever does.

Does India still have the B.A.Failed "qualifiaction" (which was almost as highly prized as a passed one)?

This throw up the whole question of what gives an institution/body the right to allow someone to put letters after their name. Does anyone know if there are any laws about this? Rather than buy some (if they are worthless anyway in terms of their value) it would be simpler just to invent some.

Should I want to get a job on the basis of my qualifications then my would-be employer would understand what my qualifications are and whether they are relevant. (Thoug it's so long since I was at college the information is vastly out of date and all my certificates show is that at one time I was capable of learning stuff and taking an exam).

But for those who don't know, what do the following mean
DipRSCM, DipMusComp(ICMA), CertGSMD(T), CertRSCM,CertHE(Wales), LNCM, AVCM(Hons), CertSocSci(Open), ANSCM, FIGOC, FASC, FFLM, LGMS, MNCMSoc,
I can work out Wales!
Thanks
Tricia

So what entitled you to a LGMS then? Do you actually have to meet criteria that is not the norm? What I mean is, that a lot of people have undergraduate degrees, so could quite easily buy a FGMS. Is there any part of the entry criteria that wants you to stand out and actually deserve the letters? Depending on what else they ask for, if I graduate next year I could buy an FGMS - utterly ridiculous, because I haven't done anything differnet with my life to earn it.

I'm a member of the ISM & EPTA, for which you do have to prove you are suitably qualified & be elected to join. They are directly relevant to my work as a piano teacher, but they do not (quite rightly, in my opinion) entitle me to use any letters after my name. I could, however, advertise for pupils in one of their boxes in the yellow pages if I wished. In my professional capacity, I would only use qualifications which are relevant to my work.

The ISM will take anyone recommended by two members. The requirement to prove your qualifications is to get on their register of teachers. You can still join without qualifications - you just need two people to back your applications, but you won't appear on the teacher's list, that's all. I know two qualified teachers who are ISM members but who are not on the register as they don't want any more pupils.

David - I think everyone here respects you as an experienced and gifted teacher

Getting back to the point I would add that in the end it is experience that counts. I am proud of my own qualifications and would certainly included the 3 in my signature on business cards or adverts if I ever return to instrumental teaching.

The idea of pretending to be a BA or MA or whatever is ridiculous. The only person you are deceiving is yourself and very few other people actually care. A post-nominal is confirmation to oneself of achievement and development.

Despite having LRSM after my name, a well played opening few bars of the Moonlight is usually sufficient to satisfy any potential pupil (or parent) as to your playing capacity

Keeping a database of past pupils' exam successes is also a useful source of information to interested pupils.

I was required to send copies of my qualifications, although I was not applying to go on the register of teachers (I have more than enough work already, so don't need to.) They generally expect full members to be qualified musicians, although they can make exceptions in special cases - the fact that you are recommended by 2 people doesn't mean you're automatically elected.

I'll dip my toe into these murky waters..

.. I think buying any set of letters with the aim of deception is wrong. Buying a PhD, MA, BSc or whatever "for a laugh" is one thing, but using that as a bona fide qualification without having put in the legwork is abhorrent.

As for societies which give letters for payment of membership fees without any rigorous application/qualification process, well that probably says more about them than it does about any members who have a genuine interest in the aims of that society.

As you know, I am a letters tart but I think it behoves the possessor of armfuls of postnominals to be careful the more trivial ones don't overshadow the ones that were achieved with hardwork and talent...

In the UK, things which look like degree postnominals are protected by law - so one cannot buy a BA/BSc/MA/MSc/PhD/DSc etc. etc. There's a loophole in the US, though, where an organisation can declare themselves to be a church of some faith, and award degrees - because church organisations can award qualifications in America. Most of the Internet sites from which one can buy degrees are US based, and in the small print one can see that 'Hardwood University' is associated with one of these 'churches'.

What is okay in the UK is for an organisation to give out memberships which entitle the holder to postnominals and academic dress. Membership levels look a lot like music diploma levels - one can be a Fellow of an organisation and put Fsomething after one's name. So, for instance, dcmbarton is a Fellow of the Academy of St Cecilia and puts FASC after his name accordingly - this means he pays a subscription fee to be a member of the organisation. It isn't a qualification - the membership criteria are quite broad, and at least would require one to be 'simply as an enthusiast' about Early Music'. So perhaps they could include a voucher in the complete Byrd Keyboard Works box set .

So if you're curious about how to go about awarding membership postnominals, all you need to do is draft up a constitution and away you go. Some time ago I did one for the 'Bouffant College of Music', which can now technically award postnominals just as other societies can: FBCM, LBCM and ABCM. Feel free to edit it to suit, and start your own society to bolster your collection of postnominals .

The key to getting membership postnominals respected is to make them difficult to attain - FRS, for instance, is merely a membership, but carries much weight because one has to do a heck of a lot to get it. The first thing I do upon seeing postnominals I haven't heard of is to Google them - and have a chuckle if they're desperate enough to show off that they have tenner-a-year no-strings-attached memberships masquerading as qualifications .

Thank you - that's useful. I might yet be tempted to create an online qualification in my field (not music) in a desperate bid to encourage collegues to learn some basic facts they ought to know by now.

Alright, I'll confess.

I have an ATh and am an ordained minister. Can't remember who the ATh was from, it was a matter of printing off a piece of paper and cost nothing. The "Rev" is from what used to be Trinity Evangelical Ministries (now called something else) and if I moved to the US I could conduct weddings and so on. It's worth about the cost of the paper it's printed on. As it happens, I had a cat and a hamster ordained by an even more dodgy outfit called Universal Life Church. They too were permitted to do weddings, funerals and baptisms - but specifically not circumcisions

Liz




I know most of these but not LGMS, MNCMSoc, ANSCM, FIGOC FFLM and FASC. Come on, the holder, enlighten us!

Liz

There is that. I also wonder if there are rules about not giving out another organisation's postnominals - for instance, could I write a constitution for the recordings site and award 'Forum Recordings Site Member'? .

I agree with elidatrading - enlighten us .

Go on... You know you want to!

I can't go into details, but when I started my present job, I had a terrible time having to prove all my qualifications and they even wanted proof of where I was working 20 years ago. I had to explain that the place in question was now a housing estate and it might be tricky.

A few years later, our Director left for a new job as a government advisor (not the UK). Then a newspaper revealed that his PhD had been bought from the USA. He didn't lose his job!

One law for them.... another for us?

Steve

Manek - your post is offensive. An apology might be in order.

Me too! What do you have to do to get them? I asked several pages ago, and am still awaiting a reply. I hope you won't think I'm trolling if I state that if it's not explained I'm likely to think the worst (and am also likely to reprint my business cards to incorporate my HonFBCM ).

Liz - circumcision by a cat or a hamster? I'm VERY glad that's specifically prohibited!

Brilliant YAP!

Meanwhile, I googled the qualifications I don't recognise, and have listed them below.

MNCMSoc - Member of the National College of Music
ANSCM - Associate Norwich School of Church Music
FIGOC - Fellow of the Irish Guild of Organists & Choristers


I'm not so sure google produced the results I was looking for with these -
FASC - Florida Association of Student Councils
LGMS - Local Growth Management Strategy
FFLM - "The ultimate PC-based fantasy football software program that can create a custom web site for your league"

So if you were asked to list your qualifications, would you include your memberships? Or would you think this was misleading?

I guess in some regards a membership listed as a qualification would be a 'fake qualification' of sorts, in so far as it might look like one when it isn't.

Having letters after your name does not mean they are qualifications. David made a very good point when he pointed out how they can be used to draw attention to certain interests and organisations.

How is it any different from many of the 'signatures' in the forum.

e.g. Mr A.N. Other Dip Clarinet, Grade 2 comb 'n paper, peri teacher... etc.

They aren't qualifications but serve to tell people a little about this person.

As long as it's not done to commit fraud, you can put anything after your name.

Some letters do represent a qualification, but may be obtained indirectly. If you have a degree in Biology (or related) you can join the Institute of Biology and use the letters MIBiol and CBiol. You can also gain them without a degree, but by proving to the Institute that you are of sufficiently high standard.

Like wise with the Institute of Linguists. A degree in a language can get you a MCIL.

When do most people use these? Unless you're a show-off, have an inferiority/superiority complex, then not very often, and not in everyday life, but when you're writing on a specific-interest forum, then I think they're very relevant.

Just do a google search on David's letters. Very interesting!

Steve SCFPS (swimming certificates from Primary school)

Good point,

(with the proviso that you don't use letters which are legally protected)

Things which start with "F" seem particularly useful. I have a FHC (Food Hygiene Certificate) from a Business school and a St John's Ambulance FAC (First Aid Certificate). Next I shall be looking at courses which start with "F" and have four or more words in the title as these seem more impressive.

Alicia FHC(Bus), FAC(St John).

In what way??

Good for you David. Why you should be under any obligation to defend or explain yourself is beyond me!

David, I didn't see where you had said that you didn't want to post them. I had read your comment of

"I have worked hard for the qualifications I have gained. I've enjoyed doing them and invested a lot of time and energy into them. Surely, anyone in the same position would want to show this?"

and assumed you wouldn't mind at all. You should be proud of qualifications, and if they are displayed as your signature then obviously you aren't shy about them. Also, I would hope you realise that the last half of my post was meant as a joke (Surely no one would think that you are listing a local growth management strategy as a qualification!)

Nic,

The FASC is from the Academy of Saint Cecilia. The patron is Sir Maxwell Davies! In fact, David explained this over a year ago on this forum!

Fellow of the FLM and Licentiate of the GMS are both recognised faculties and guilds. Your Google search wasn't very good.

Steve PGG (pretty good googler)

Thanks Steve, although I don't believe David wants these posted (see a few posts above..)

Kind regards,

nic VbG (very bad googler!)

Which is why I didn't say exactly what they were. Anyone who wants to know can ask him via PM.


Steve FUN GUY (Fellow of underated Nerds & Guild of Unbearable Yobs)

So would you, for instance, write them in the 'Qualifications' box on musicteachers.co.uk? My interpretation of that box is that they are 'specifically asking for qualifications'....

I know someone who not only lists memberships in the qualifications section of a music teachers website, but also puts that they have Grade 5, Grade 6 and Grade 8 in their instruments under 'qualifications'.