Ok, the title may have been an exagerration, but this is exactly how I feel. Here's the story:

I have had a student for 3 years now, a girl, who had slow progress in the beginning, but now everything is seemingly falling into place, she copes with rhythms, never gets a note wrong - plays beautifully, won a trophy at a local music festival for a grade 2 piece, and passed grade 2 last november. I am at the moment, working on grade 2 theory with her, bringing up her sight reading (which has improved greatly, and we are always making progress due to the insistance we do 10 mins of sight reading a week) but nonetheless we are working on all sorts of things.

So, due to our hard work, and the target in mind for grade 3 (well some pushing on) we agreed that we would work on one piece at a time, (because she doesn't have the time to practice more than one piece as well as sight reading, scales and other things). So, I gave her the entertainer (arranged) two weeks ago, a piece she liked and wanted to learn, and I gave her a specific target - just over half the piece and gave her tips on how to practice it, but i insisted that because we are only looking at one piece at a time, that i expect the half I gave her to be reasonably up to speed (evidence that she's practiced hard) and few wrong notes.

So, here's what happened:

She came to the lesson yesterday, I asked her how entertainer went, she said with a smile, oh I worked hard on it, and i can play it quite fast without much slowing down...

She played what she had done: the opening passage was full of wrong notes. As the piece went on, no evidence of rhythm attempted (although I thought I had the idea that rhythm is very important drummed into her head from frequent sight reading work). The left hand was very scarce in the whole attempt, and the chords seemed to be guessed. Needless to say with all the wrong notes, it sounded nothing like the entertainer, but a random array of notes.

Needless to say I was shocked at this, in all bitter honesty, very sad attempt. This sad attempt came out of pure laziness on her part and I know this. I couldn't hold my disbelief in. I really couldn't. I asked her how she thought that went, I then proceeded to point to about 8 chords that were missed completely in the left hand, asked why on earth she thought the F which was just below middle C was the one an octave below and why on earth there was an endless amount of wrong notes in the whole piece. However, one good thing about it: had she bothered to work out the notes, had she bothered to attempt the rhythm (although I completely understand the entertainer has a difficult rhythm so would have forgiven her if the notes were actually correct!), and had she bothered to consider that there was a left hand part then she would have produced a good attempt because what she had learnt was learnt well! She played what she thought was right at a good speed and confidently. Evidence of good practice.

I then asked her why on earth, after only two weeks of looking at this piece she wasn't even looking at the music for guidance. The next 30 minutes was spent me pointing at the music, not saying a single word, demanding she READ the music and not look at her hands unless her hands are moving, and lo and behold the entertainer came out, slow, steady but nonetheless the entertainer! I then made it very clear that I do not expect the lesson's to be spent me pointing at the music. She went home sulking needless to say. I love this girl to bits, she was my first student, and the one that always plays so beautifully, the most artistic one. I dont think I have high expectations of her, but I'm sure you will all agree that after 3 years, a student should be able to work on something on their own, and produce something near to what is written!

Am i going backwards with her?! It certainly feels like it.

I would say you are far from the worst piano teacher in the world, but I do think you need to be more careful how you handle this.

Is it possible that your student TRIED to learn the piece and, as lots of mine have done and I did as a teenager, got carried away with what she was attempting? Instead of looking properly at the score she tried to remember the piece and practiced in a heap of mistakes. I don't think a teacher should ever rain on the parade of a student who tries! Correcting it gently and telling her you appreciate that she tried but there are things to be addressed may be a better tactic. Maybe the arrangement you gave her was too hard?

This is something I did with the Girl with the Flaxen Hair over the summer holidays when I was about 15 and when my teacher saw the dog's dinner I had made of it she told me never to play it again. The only effect this had on me was to make me feel REALLY bad and stop me trying to learn anything off my own bat again for a long time because I didn't think I was clever or musical enough. It really put me off playing, and my teacher, for quite a while.

Without meaning to sound too harsh, I have to say if I arrived at my lesson having made an effort and got the reaction your student did, it would put me right off trying again.

(Note: I don't let me students walk all over me in case I sound like I'm too soft!!! I am very capable of bringing out the stern teacher act when necessary!)

Here are my two cents:

1) How long is this student's lesson? 30, 45 or 60 minutes? Spending 10 minutes on sight reading alone doesn't sound like an effective use of lesson time when you are also trying to cover theory, scales, repertoire, and aural tests in one lesson.

2) At this level, a student should be working on two or three pieces at any given week. It might be more interesting for the student to do fewer sightreading exercises and more repertoire. The more pieces one studies, the sharper his/her reading skills will become.

3) At this level, a student should not be asked to practise something on his/her own unless the piece has been gone over during the lesson. Since this student is weak at sight reading to begin with, she is probably unaware of the errors that she makes when attempting a new piece. I think it is better pedagogically to have the student try the piece hands separately, go over the difficult rhythms, and try certain bits hands together at the lesson before she has to work on it at home. It is not good enough just to give her tips on how to approach a piece.

I disagree with this. I encourage my pupils to 'have a go' at pieces completely on their own from the very beginning (or at least once they know a few notes). Some will do this anyway, without being encouraged, and will come to lessons telling me that they've tried several pieces on their own. I take this as a sign that they are keen and enjoy playing. My policy is to praise, praise, praise when they do this regardless of wrong notes, wrong rhythms etc, because they've taken the initiative and had a go themselves. We can then look at the piece in question and sort out any wrong notes/rhythms. They go away feeling they've achieved something on their own and that I'm delighted that they did so.

I expect she 'knows' how the entertainer goes and so has had a good try at doing it by ear. She may have been really pleased that she was playing a piece she recognises, in my experience we don't often give our students that opportunity.

' i expect the half I gave her to be reasonably up to speed (evidence that she's practiced hard) and few wrong notes.'

It sounds to me like the bit she heard was 'reasonably up to speed'. And are you sure that playing up to speed after ONE week is 'evidence' of practice? Perhaps evidence of practice may be that she's playing the right notes at the right time - speed really is the last thing to come.

At only Grade 2, and being a bit slow anyway, I would agree with others that she needs to go through with you during the lesson what she needs to practice at home.

I agree. I think it is important to ensure the student has a good understanding of the piece before they practise it at home. It can be very difficult to undo mistakes that have been practised for a week!

I would always try to have gone over things in lessons before letting a pupil loose with them at home at this stage too - though not always! If we've been through the first few lines of something together, and the next few lines look easier, rhythmically, I might suggest they see what they can make of this bit on their own. Grade 2-3 can be a bit of tough stage, I find, as it's possible to have learnt very much by rote up to this point, despite the teacher's efforts with sight-reading and so on. It doesn't mean you're a bad teacher; it just means it's getting harder for the pupil, and it's worth lowering your expectations for a while, giving smaller chunks to focus on at home, and homing in on sight-reading more in lessons. Early successes can be followed by discouragement at this stage when things start to get more difficult, so I'd agree that encouragement all the way is important. Making a good job of a smaller portion of a new piece might give more of a sense of achievement than attempting it all at once.
Good luck! There are ups and downs with all pupils - don't blame yourself!

How old is this girl? I've found that asking younger students to go home and learn a piece from scratch is almost useless. I really encourage my students to do for themselves, I can teach them the tools, how to read music, technique etc.. But still, most children up to the age of about 12 - 13 don't have much experience of independent study in other areas so they find it hard to sit down and "work" on a piece.

With my students we've been talking about "good" practice. This doesn't mean sitting down at the piano, then putting the egg timer on for 30 minutes and playing whatever piece it is on loop. At the back of their notebooks we have a practice dairy which is started in the lessons. At the end of the lessons, I get the student to play through the piece/pieces that they've been working on then they write down

1) something they thought they did well

2) something to work on tomorrow. Sometimes being really specific here helps when starting a piece, work on fingering in bar 5 or learn 4 bars hands together (assuming they practice 5 times a week, that should in theory mean 20 bars!) But then when the piece is more confident note wise you can work on phrasing, dynamics etc.

3) how long they practiced - this satisfies my curiosity more than anything.

Then they read it the next time they practice so they remember what it is to work on instead of just playing through. It also makes them listen to what they're playing. Have you come across chidren who play without listening, just getting from A to B? I am constantly amazed by this. Then there is a 4th column..

4) have you learned something new? When this is yes, the student can see that they've accomplished something and it makes practice more rewarding. If it's a no, why not? was it too ambitious a target or was there something else on their mind, it's a good thing to discuss in the lessons.

This helps when talking about practice technique, you can see if the time is being used efficiently and so can the student. It is heartbreaking when a student has taken home a "fun" piece worked on it and worked on it and then it's just competely wrong. I don't know if it's through lack of listening or what.

I'm curious, what do you do when this happens? I assume you don't want to take the enjoyment away by tearing the piece apart but at the same time make the student aware that what they're playing isn't what's on the piece of paper in front of them.

Then do you persevere? It takes so much longer to correct lots of mistakes than it does to learn it correctly in the first place. I don't think stopping a piece because it was too difficult to fix sends a good message either (although I must say I've certainly "forgotten" about pieces occasionally)

Good luck with the entertainer, I'm sure if your student enjoys this piece and is prepared to practice it the tune will be driving her parents nuts soon enough!!

The next 30 minutes was spent me pointing at the music, not saying a single word, demanding she READ the music and not look at her hands unless her hands are moving, and lo and behold the entertainer came out, slow, steady but nonetheless the entertainer! I then made it very clear that I do not expect the lesson's to be spent me pointing at the music. She went home sulking needless to say. I love this girl to bits, she was my first student, and the one that always plays so beautifully, the most artistic one. I dont think I have high expectations of her, but I'm sure you will all agree that after 3 years, a student should be able to work on something on their own, and produce something near to what is written!


You say you "love this girl to bits" but I'm worried about what that 30 minutes must have been like for you both. It must have been so tense and uncomfortable. I'm sorry, but I think your expectations were too high and agree with others that it's just too much to expect a young student to go away and get things right on their own. Please give her lots of encouragement at the next lesson. As has been said so many times on this forum by experienced teachers - it should be all about the joy of music.

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I think that it's poossible you've just asked too much of her.
I tend to advise breaking the music into manageable chunks and not moving on umtil each small(ish) section is ok.
Sometimes it can take me a month to get a few bars of something tricky going!
If this is a new style maybe she needs more time to learn how to deal with it.
I agree that asking for it up to speed was probably not the best idea.... speed is the last thing to work up.

It can be difficult to judge how much to push someone, I'd put this down to experience and try to learn something form it. I'm constantly adjusting the way I approach things.

I admire your courage in posting your description of your difficult lesson. I have had moments like this, especially in my early years of teaching and I used to worry about the implications of a poor lesson after the pupil had left. Usually, everything was fine by the following week - either a new approach by me after much reflection or the pupil had forgotten and had moved on - a week is a long time for a student in school.

However, teaching is always a learning curve (sometimes we get a steeper one to climb now and again) and I believe we all walk quite a thin tightrope. I mean it can be so easy for things to go wrong with a pupil we know well and have been teaching for sometime (maybe years). There is lot to do with pupils' feelings about their lesson and music. Its possible for parents and pupil to put the teacher on a pedestal, thinking we are wonderful and can do no wrong. In a way they can become too dependent on our teaching.

The couple of times that I have lost pupils through one bad lesson, were pupils I knew very well. In one case I recall I decided to give the pupil the reins and hit a brick wall when I just could not fathom why she was not coping (and of course I inwardly reproached myself because she couldn't do the task). She could usually play so well and fluently but admittedly only on pieces she knew well. I think it is so important to make sure that learning has taken place in a lesson as it is easy to be fooled as to a pupil's real ability. I mean we need to constantly check how much understanding is really there. For example, I am finding recently that my Grade 4 pupil still needs help working out key signatures, even though she had a big success at Grade 3. A high mark in an exam doesn't guarantee that the pupil has a thorough understanding.

You obviously care a lot about what happened - use the experience to reflect on next time which is probably more important than always giving a great lesson

In this lesson, who learnt more: You or her?

Thank you all for your replies, I appreciate them all, and I have read them with a fresh mind and see things from a different point of view.

The arrangement of the entertainer was not a difficult arrangement, I immediately thought this but the girl played all the right notes and made a very good attempt at the rhythm within 30 mins in the lesson with me (without me telling her the names of any of the notes, but just helping a bit with the rhythm).

Contrary to my post, I did praise her for her attempt! I told her what she learnt was well learnt, and also praised her a lot after her 30 mins with me, where she played the piece with right notes and her rhythm was there. I made it clear at the end of the lesson that I was only merely a presence, and that she could do it at home by herself.

I dont believe that children as young as 10 shouldn't be given pieces to do on their own. I have a 9 year old boy, who frequently comes back with pieces we haven't gone through in the lesson. With this particular girl, I have many many times gone through pieces in the lesson with her, but (as has been discussed in other posts) she will come back and the piece is worse than the week before, because she hasn't looked at it. She believes we will just go through the piece in the lesson, so I have stopped "spoon feeding", it wasn't getting us anywhere. Hence, I am now stopping the "practicing" in my lesson, because I want to concentrate on other things rather than just the notes. I would think after 3 years (and would definitely expect) right notes, even if the rhythm was slightly difficult.

I dont believe 10 mins of sight reading is too much. How do the students learn about rhythms? How do they learn to look ahead? How do they learn to approach a piece, look through at patterns, play with different key signatures? Look ahead for accidentals? All these things are important skills in my book. They notice a scale pattern, and they tell me the key, and from that they tell me, oh that bar will be easy when i get there. But most importantly, where else will a child approach a piece of music in this way? If a child isn't a competent sight reader, they will be fearful of every new piece they learn. So, 10 mins of working on sight reading to me is the absolute minimum I will spend on it. My student (who is 9) is a very competent sight reader. I believe this is why, he went away with the entertainer (not a single word said by me) and came back in 2 weeks (after a week's holiday with cub scouts) and could play the WHOLE piece. After I told him to slow it down (he was just a bit too excited about it), and pointed out a few rhythm errors, he gave as good as an attempt as I could ask for. This particular student is never fearful of any new piece. That is why I spend one sixth of my lessons on sight reading.

The reason why I may have sounded "impatient" or "discouraging", is because this girl HAS taken a piece home and come back and given a really good attempt, and I have showered her with praise and on the marvellous occasions - given her chocolate. I dont want any of you to think I dont praise my students, because I praise them till the cows come home, and they walk out usually with a great big smile, and a mouth full of chocolate. This girl probably sulked going home because she wasn't praised as she normally is. This girl does play beautifully, and I have on numerous occasions told her this. This girl can learn two lines of a piece in a week without going through it in a lesson- she has on numerous occasions done this. The opening part of the entertainer (apart from the main bit which comes in) is not at all difficult, it is in fact in this arrangement hands separately - I can tell you this student knows the difference between an A and a B, so i cant understand why she suddenly forgot this when she practiced this piece.

The speed thing, which many of you commented on, is not something i demand. I say to my students, as a rough guide (although I will tell them in future not to take it literally) that they should practice 4 or so bars and play them over and over again, until it STARTS to quicken up. But i have never told them to play it up to speed - this is only suggested once they have learnt the notes.

Also, as a last comment, in order to try and move this student on, I have had to, on many occasions, "practice" with her in the lesson. This became so frustrating on my part because she was coming back the next week and it was in fact worse than the week before - she probably thought once a week practice with me would be enough. I spoke to her a few months ago, and said that the "practice" spent in the lessons would decrease, she HAS to practice the stuff at home, that's when she said she wants one piece a week, saying she would focus all her attention on the one piece, i agreed.

I can say, without a single doubt in my mind, that this girl knows how to practice. We have spent enough time in my lesson going through how to practice, and we have spoken about ways of approaching it before. She tells me she ALWAYS does hands separately first, goes over it a few times, then approaches hands together. This is what we did in our lessons. This girl has gone home, practiced, and come back in the lesson with good attempts at her pieces (sometimes extremely good attempts) and the worst thing she has ever done is either forget the key signature, odd wrong note, or odd wrong rhythm.

I dont think I had high expectations of her. I dont believe the piece was hard, she produced a good attempt with me in the lesson after 30 mins. However, I have taken on board all the replies that were given, I agree that maybe I shouldn't have made a big deal of it in the lesson, I should have taken a lighter approach with her, and will make sure I do this next lesson, regardless of what she produces. I did feel guilty when she went home unhappy, she normally enjoys the lesson, so I will make sure she gets praised next week.

It's normal for children to push the boundaries from time to time.
Maybe this is what has happened and if so then it probably was time to read the riot act.

Hi Juicy Jen,

I think some people are being a little harsh on you here. After all the hard work you've put in with this child, and the improvements you've made, how can you possibly say that you're the worst piano teacher in the world?

Let's be honest - we all have the child that can drive us crazy from time to time. You were hoping she would go away with a tune she was familiar with and come back and play it the next week.

The problem here is your expectation, not your teaching skills. The entertainer, even when arranged and simplified is a complex syncopated nightmare. It sounds jolly and fun, but it's really difficult to play. And no amount of practice will get it done in a week. In my experience, you give children many smaller bits of different pieces to get the hang of each week because the brain will not assimilate all the notes and the capabilities to play it in such a short time. The reason we all think it's easy is because we've all played it, have the skills to play it well with no problems, because we learnt it ages ago!

You say the child only has one piece a week to learn. I think this is the problem. You don't sound that happy about it and nor should you be. Even if you give her some really simple bits to learn at home on her own, she will be doing independent reading. It sound like it's the reading that's the problem here. Get her reading up to speed, then she will have more time to practice.

Keep your chin up lass. We all have those days, and yeah, you might have got a bit uptight last lesson, but it's unlikely you put her off flr good just yet (wry smile here!) and there's always next week. If she likes the jazzy stuff, try pam wedgewood's jazzin' about or Piano time Jazz series. Some great bits in there which teach the art of syncopation without so much trauma!

Take care, God bless!

Ewan

Great advice Ewan

Often I've found that with "The Entertainer", the kids have already got their own "version" either from ear or taught by someone else.

Then they find it hard to adjust when they have to play a slightly different version from the music.

I made up a simplified version of "The Maple Leaf Rag" a couple of months ago and that goes down well, as it's completely new to most of the young ones so they don't already have an idea of how they think it should go in their minds. I also prefer it to "The Entertainer" anyway

Solace is another Joplin piece that kids like (especially when they get to the last 2 sections that they may have heard somewhere before!) It has lots of space and goes slow, so although it's not as easy as it sounds it can still be fun. Bizarrely, I learned to play it on a guitar before a piano!