It's not a case of being 'forced' to read the thread. It's quite a big one and sometimes, if people have time on their hands they often read threads that they might not usually.

I agree with Lexa though. If Sophie is unable to deal with one comment then surely she should go and see a professional counsellor. Talking does help, I know that, and she is within her right to moan about it all on here, but (I think) he's been away for a bit of time now and it needs to be dealt with. Lexa is right in saying that the entire world cannot tread on eggshells forever. Things will be said sometimes, and yes on occasions they are said without thought, but it just seems that any form of comment upsets her greatly. Can nobody see that she needs more than people going " aww it's ok ". If she is still suffering months later then it seems to me that she needs more that a forum topic to help her issues.

Being 16 is hard, yes, but one could argue that any age is difficult. Life is never going to be free of problems but they need to be dealt with, people need to be strong. I have a brother in the airforce and before he left he told me he could eventually be stationed in Iraq or Afgan etc. That shocked me a bit and I thought eek, but it's not taking over my life. I don't get upset over someone mentioning a country in a conversation and talking about people dying over there. It's his choice to go and I have enough on in my life without it being taken over by being worried sick over my brother. It does not mean I am not worried, it merely means I am not letting it affect my life in such a great way like it seems to affect Soph.

This post is not meant to have a go or be taken really harshly but the opposing opinion needs to be brought up sometimes. A lot of Soph's posts are rather worrying. She doesn't deal with anything soldier related well, she never thinks she's capable of anything - especially A-level related - if she goes to university what will happen then? I know everyone goes through moments where they don't think they can do something, that's life, but to me it just appears to be taking over Soph's life and surely at 16 it's time to realise that and get some proper help to sort it out. It'll only get worse otherwise.

This is a general comment, not aimed at anyone in particular...

I don't think any of us should judge Soph, or make her feel that her way of dealing with the issues in her life is wrong. If someone is struggling to cope with the problems of life, you either kick them whilst they're down, or you try and help them get up. In real life there are many who will kick her, but in this thread, we try and help her get up. If anybody doesn't want to support her, that's fair enough, but to kick her is really quite unkind and contrary to the spirit of the forums.

None of us can change Soph and suddenly make her able to brush aside hurtful remarks. All we can do - albeit in a small way - is try to improve her self esteem and confidence so that hurtful remarks affect her less. Making her feel that she's doing something wrong by posting here or by not coping as well as others think she should is just adding to the problem. Many of us have tried for months to encourage Soph to talk to her parents or a counsellor, but at the end of the day, it's Soph's decision and we should respect that. Trying to impose our views on to her and making her feel bad for not doing what we may think she should is a form of bullying, in my opinion.

All Soph wants to do here is voice her worries. People have rants all the time, and many talk about their personal problems and nobody criticises them for it. But for some reason, some people don't seem able to let Soph be herself here. I think it's for other people to deal with why it bothers them, rather than for Soph to think that's there's something wrong with it.

Soph, I'm sorry to talk about you like this, I hope you don't mind. If it's helps you to post, then I hope you will continue doing so, and if you get criticised because of it, I hope the mods will see it as bullying and deal with it accordingly

But nobody is kicking her. All anyone has said is that she needs more help than the forums can give in order to get herself up. I tend to agree with Scaramouche. We don't know Soph and can't/definitely shouldn't judge her, but from what has been said I agree that it seems as if the help so far given has not been sufficient.

No one has actually criticised Soph for feeling this way- all that has been said has been aimed at methods of dealing with the feelings. No one is saying that she shouldn't be worried, either. And no one is bullying. I think that is a bit harsh. Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind, no?

Nat, that clearly came from the heart and you should be commended for it. You are not "having a go", no way.

This may or may not be true in real life, it depends on the circumstances. But here on the forum, in these circumstances, then no, it is not our place to be cruel, whether the intent is to be kind or not. We should accept Soph as she is - as all other members are accepted

Skylark - well said - in post 453 particularly

Yes, but 'accepting her as she is' is a bit of a woolly thing to say. Are we not to encourage anyone on here to change anything then? As far as I was aware, people are only trying to help and encourage change in a positive sense. At some point, concern for people must over-ride the fact that we have to stay 'in our place'.

But as you say, it is not our place to make anyone change. That is why alternative sources other than the forum have been suggested for help(I thought...).

I have never said ranting is bad or deserves criticism, and I also hope that no-one actually got the impression that I was bullying Soph through my post . I can't speak for anyone else but perhaps part of the problem that suggests it's always Soph getting criticised is that she does post an awful lot of threads which relate to her lack of self-esteem. I can't really name anyone else who does that. By bringing that up I am not bullying, I am stating fact and giving my opinion that something actually needs to be done about that.

It's all well and good that many people post in here or in other threads of hers and trying to help her and improve her confidence, it's great that you're all so kind enough to do that, BUT, has it helped in the long run? I personally don't see any improvement which is why I have said that she needs to see someone in real life who can deal with it properly. I'm not trying to force her or whatever, I am just stating that I feel this is serious enough for her to require help that people on here can't give her.

I find it rather amusing that no-one can seem to be 'cruel to be kind' in a way. I know nobody like arguments or rudeness, or being horrible, but come on, is the opposite view never allowed to be brought to attention for fear of people thinking it's bullying and unhelpful, when all it is, is an opinion?

Well said. But Soph isn't a piece of meat. Maybe we should all stop discussing her.

This is also not aimed at anyone or anything in particular...

I believe in giving people confidence and I want people to be happy but I am also one (I hope) that is realistic. I am not referring to this thread when I say this but is there any point in saying something is wonderful or everything is great when quite clearly it isn't? People wonder why they get rejected from somewhere or don't do well in exams when they thought they would, when sometimes it's because they've been given false hope all to aid confidence. Maybe this is just me, but sometimes I'd love someone to tell me to shut up, stop moaning and get on with it, and say that was utter rubbish. Rather than aww everything will be fine, you'll pass no problem - then wonder afterwards why I did so badly. If that makes sense .



True, I may now bow out before I get accused further of bullying when I'm stating facts .

For what it's worth, I don't think that you have been bullying.
I think you have made it very clear that you don't want to upset anyone.

Maybe we should all stop discussing her.

YES. Please.

I think that might be a very good idea.

Best get the thread locked then, since that was the point of it really....

Well, I hope nobody ends up hating me for this, but I tried to get this thread locked yesterday...for Sophies sake more than anybodys. I can see it going round and round getting nowhere except for ending up in a big slanging match. Hopefully now the mods will take note.

Soph knows the people who she can PM and msn and who will be there to support her. I think now any support needs to be done in private.

Sorry Soph xxxx

This thread in its current status is doing Soph no good whatsoever.

All the best Soph if you read this (but I wouldn't be surprised if you've stopped.........)

xxx

Well said. We only get a two-dimensional view of any person and their problems on a forum, and it is only those who know the individual best who are really in a position to help; whether that help involves symapthy or a friendly 'Wise up.' is beside the point.

Soph, it's your thread - if you want it kept open, then hopefully the mods will keep it open. If you want to express your worries here in a way that - for whatever reason - you can't in real life, I hope you will continue to do so. I don't think it's asking too much for you to have a place to go where you can find support - that is what this forum is supposed to be for, and you're as much entitled to expect support as anyone else.

I know some people find it hard to understand why you can't/don't deal with your problems in a different way, but you no doubt have your reasons and again you're entitled to them.

Please everybody, just let Soph be - we can't solve her problems, or persuade her to do something which she doesn't want to do.... all we can do is offer a sympathetic ear and leave it to her real-life friends/family to help her through the difficulties she's having, some of which we may not even know about

My concern is that in trying to help Soph on here, the long term effects may be negative rather than positive: by providing support on here, Soph may be discouraged from seeking help. She can escape to here, rather than talking to people in real life. People may mean well, and I'm not in any way discouraging those who care for Soph and have been there for her on here, but the Internet is not a suitable tool for providing long-term emotional support. It is hard to judge what someone really thinks or how they really feel - we don't see body language, vocal inflections, eye contact.... The difference between being ordinarily emotionally perturbed and having problems which need professional help is orders of magnitude harder to pick up without these cues. As Dulciana says, we only get a two dimensional view.

Ultimately, if Soph has problems, she needs to talk to people about it real life. People have made posts to try and encourage her to seek help from friends or family, or go and talk to her GP about her problems. However, whilst doing that on the one hand, on the other they have provided such extensive support on here that they are effectively discouraging her from seeking help. Soph needs to realise for herself if she needs to go, we cannot force her to go after all, but the extent of the support on here will be stalling that decision.

'Cruel to be kind' has been banded around, and I think it is true: short-term cruel, by stepping back and realising that here is an inappropriate place to attempt to provide a substitute for proper help for someone with long-term problems; for long-term kind, in that the sooner we do that, the sooner Soph will get the help she needs and gets her life back on track.

I might be criticised for this post, but I am unwilling to compromise on this issue. Far too often have I seen friends and family leave it later than they should have done before seeking help; and the longer it is left, the longer recovery takes.

YAP I don't dispute the logic of your post at all. I can't really say any more than that, other than I've already weighed up that argument and decided that in view of private conversations I've had with Soph, it's better to keep supporting her here on the forum

Without wishing to offend you, skylark, if the extent of Soph's problems are as great as her posts indicate, few of us are equipped with the knowledge and experience necessary; and, has been pointed out, the Internet is unsuitable for the task. There is no shame in admitting that one is out of one's depth, and that a person's long-term problems exceed what can be effectively managed by a virtual hug and judicious use of the smilie.

YAP, I don't want to continue discussing Soph in public - I'll PM you

*hugs to Soph*

I've not contributed to this thread much/at all, and I know I'm not really active here much, but I just thought to let you know that I'm thinking of you and your family. My pm box is always free if you want to talk.

<3

I'm not discussing Soph, I'm discussing how forum members interact with Soph: my comments were directed at everyone other than her.

Yes, sorry, I didn't mean my post to sound like it has done! I just meant I would acknowlege your post by PM rather than on the thread as I didn't want to prolong a discussion

Ok... My first point is going to be, that 'talking' as if I am not there...

Secondly, for those who happen to actually be interested in anything other than criticising etc me, I have this week being sorting things out!!

I am not as has been stated a piece of meat...

And to be honest, I always thought the forums were where People could talk freely, if you have such a problem with it then DONT READ IT. I appear to be the only one who gets judged by it!

And you know what, before you got slating me, and discussing me, just remember or think how would you feel if you had a brother out there!!!

And as for discussing in pm's

Only I can choose what I do with my life, and how I go about it, and I am just thankful that I do have people who SUPPORT me.

To be fair, I only have this thread about my brother now, as I chose to keep one going.

AND NONE OF YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO JUDGE ME!!

Good for you Soph, well said

Sorry for my part in the discussion, it's sometimes not easy to know what to do for the best

Hope today has been OK for you....?

I achieved a lot today, I am really pleased.

And whats more, I am not going to let what has been discussed today spoil things for me!!

If you start a thread and draw specific attention to yourself, do you not think it is inevitable? This isn't a dig, just an observation on the immutable outcome of such activity...

I'm very glad, on both counts

Hope you have a good day tomorrow too

I have started a thread as and when I have neede advice... the last one I started was about A level, and I sorted out the problems I had with that.
I have only ever started a thread on here when I needed the advice. Despite what you might think... however dont worry, I wont be doing so again.

My point - as stated - was a general one. You have taken it personally. Is this the nub of the problem?

The problem, is you and a few others who criticise and judge everything I say. However I am sorting some things out now, and dont worry I wont be bothering you again!

That, Soph, is life. You can't expect everyone to agree with what you say or see things from your point of view. If you learn that lesson then perhaps happiness is just around the corner...

Now I know that I have people who are supporting me, You know what maybe it is!!

Hi Soph,

I cannot imagine anyone not supporting you. People can be terribly hurtful in the things they say. Anyone with the slightest human compassion will feel terrible on your behalf. At least that's how I feel and I hope you will always have the company of people who are more sensitive to you in this difficult time.

Here are smilies to cheer you up:

That is brilliant! ... Oh and well done MrB.

You know Sophie as a mum I sometimes have to show my boys "tough love" , its heartbreaking to see them upset, but I have to think of the long term picture too. I'm here for you, but I'm no therapist nor am I a miricle worker.

Take care, and keep thinking positively!

Jo

Soph, if someone says anything insensitive to you , then you need to just answer that their remark was rather tactless and that you are worried about your brother. Nothing more! Please stop brooding about things and try dealing with them there and then. You would probably have had an instant apology from the person concerned. Barry Thain wrote a fantastic reply. Please re-read it. Often people will say things without really thinking about the effect that their words may have on others and most of us are guilty of that. It happens! It does not make them bad people, just a little thoughtless at that moment. Put it behind you and move on.

It may well be that Soph would have already put this behind her, were it not for the nature of a forum thread; one person responds to another - like I'm doing now - and the original poster is sort of forced to respond again and again, so it looks like it goes on and on - although not that many of the posts are actually Soph's. They are from all those who would like to sort her out, and she has to respond! I think the only answer in this one instance that will allow Soph to let this go is for the thread to be closed - but that has to come from Soph herself.

No more from me on this! I stayed out of it until yesterday, until the nature of the discussion began to move away from the original tactless remark to whether or not this two-dimensional linear ramble is the right way to deal with personal emotional issues, and I don't think it is. It's too open for too many people to throw in their 2p's worth, and even the sheer volume of replies can blow the whole thing out of all proportion.

I do respond when a comment is made, as I did the other day, and also to a remark made today.

Maybe you are saying to deal with it, but at the end of the day you dont know yourselves how upsetting it can be!
I have achieved a lot this week, things I never thought I would do... I am going to carry on dealing with things without the people on here who do enjoy criticising me.

If you have a problem with this thread, then as requested a few times, then dont read it!!

How do you know that no-one else knows how upsetting it is? Are you the only other person suffering and getting upset by things? I suspect not. Please don't assume that you are the only person who understands.




Great, I hope you continue to achieve whatever you need to. However, we are not criticising you, but I think that's part of the issue really. You won't let yourself see that we're actually not, and actually trying to help in varying ways.

Maybe I am assuming, but I still dont understand why those who have a problem cant ignore the thread and leave me alone.

I am just glad that I have found people who I can talk to, and people who do understand how hard the comments are to receive.

Its good you had a positive week. I've stuck up for you and this thread this week, however I can see where a number of people are coming from. I think its about time you asked for this thread to be closed. I think it would be much more halpful in the long term. You do have plenty of outlets within this forum should anything else occur that catches you off guard.

I dont intend on telling anything on the forum any more. I am fed up of defending my every move!!

Sophie

You asked how people would react if something was said to them. That was your question.

For some people, the answer is 'mortified, like you' or variations thereon.

For others, however, the honest answer is "I'd have shrugged my shoulders and walked away, and so should you".

You didn't ask that only people who agree with your reaction should post. You asked what everyone thought. I understand you don't like some of the answers but, as others have said, you cannot expect everyone to agree with you. Life isn't like that. There aren't many threads here that express only one point of view.

You are as guilty of 'judging' people as anyone else. You accuse those who don't spring to your support as being critical and lacking understanding. Pot, kettle, black Sophie. Perhaps you will judge me harshly too.

To go back to your original question, what do you think your 'friend' meant? If they meant Afghanistan is a dangerous place, what is the problem with that? We hear it on the TV and read it in the papers every day. Afghanistan IS a dangerous place and I sincerely hope your brother returns safe and sound. There's nothing inherently offensive in saying Afghanistan is a dangerous place. If you think they meant something else, then what?

If I were in your shoes and someone had said that if they wanted to know about a near-death experience they'd ask my brother I'd have said (to answer your question) "I hope you get the chance."

And that would have been that.

Remember, Sophie, there are people in the UK who find the presence of the British Army in Afghanistan offensive, immoral and unjustifiable. Iraq too. It's a sensitive issue. You cannot expect to raise it without inviting a wide spectrum of response.

I am sure that everyone here hopes that your brother comes home soon and that you don't have to worry about him so much any more. I expect we all also hope that whatever good things have been happening for you this week continue to happen so that more and more of your posts can be about the good things happening in your present and the positive outlook for your future, especially in terms of your music.

Best wishes

barry

You know what... I arent going to fight back.

All I want to say is, I am sorting things out now, I have the help and support I need. I am feeling a lot more positive than I have in a while... and I arent going to let anyone spoil that.

I've kept out of this thread, but Barry's reply strikes me as a very thoughtful, well-considered and accurate one.

My suggestion is to let this thread die a natural death. That way, if Soph decides she wanted to read through it again or open it up again, the option is there, but she doesn't need to relive the original problem every time someone posts.

I realise I'm going against my own suggestion by posting in here. But I do think that people should stop posting here for a while.

My feelings exactly. Apologies for continuing the thread by posting this!