I am teaching oboe, but I guess this question will apply to other woodwind instruments and probably brass as well.

I have a girl of 12 who's about to do grade 2 this time (she's skipped grade 1), and has been playing since last September. I've never put anyone in for this low a grade before (lowest was 4). I think she is doing pretty well for the stage she's at, but one thing that is bothering me a little is how much emphasis the examiner (who's possibly not a wind player) is going to put on dynamics. Her dynamic range is mf-f - which is fine by me, as it's actually *hard* playing soft on the oboe, as it requires much more diaphragm support and control. I find it perfectly reasonable that she can't do much with dynamics yet given the amount of time she's been playing. The rest of her technique is fine.

I haven't been teaching all that long (a year and a half), and all the other beginners I've experienced so far seem to have exactly the same issue. It seems like they don't really get enough control to play soft until about gr. 4/5

Should I relax about this, or should I make a real effort to teach her to play softer?! I'm fretting that she will be marked down for it.

Hi Claire21

I have a baby oboist too doing Grade 1 this time. She's just 9 so tiny to be playing. Her dynamic range is also currently mf-f and, if we're really lucky, mp!

Yes, it is partly the territory of the instrument that the finer points of dynamics aren't fully fixed by Grade 1 to Grade 2 and I think that would be the same for many instruments, not just oboe. My own view has always been that provided some dynamic contrast can be heard in the piece and the playing is musical overall, the results will follow. If the examiner says no dynamic contrast was offered, when I know pupils have tried something (as I play for mine I hear what happens in the accompanied pieces) I usually just smile a wry smile and tell my pupils they did their best and not to worry. They'll get better at it.

Does this cost marks? Well, I suppose it should - the criteria mentions something about dynamics I think. However, it would IMHO, be a tough, miserable examiner who'd penalise a low-grade wind player severely because their dynamic range was narrow.

Hope that helps and bit and good luck to your pupil.

I think that's tough - I find it so hard playing quietly on sax! I'm sure oboe is the same

Just make it blatently obvious when your getting louder! Thats what I do with my sax playing!!

I find it hard playing loud on any instrument. My oboe teacher keeps telling me that my dynamic contrast would be perfectly acceptable if I would only play the forte passages louder.

Have you tried playing long notes before you practice - don't tongue the note, just use your breath, start from nothing - right up to forte and back down again?

Yes, I do this every practise session. My problem with forte passages is psychological rather than technical - sometimes my teacher plays with me and gets me to match my dynamics to his and I can play very loudly when I do this. What I can't do is play loudly when I'm playing by myself.

That's interesting, sorry I don't have any other suggestions! I could never play loudly until I got a new teacher, and now apparantly I need to work on my quiet range gah!

When I first started I could only play loudly. When I went to my lesson after I finally learnt to play quietly (it just suddenly clicked) my teacher looked somewhat bemused and said that he hadn't really intended me to play everything quietly.

Now he says that he sometimes wishes he'd never taught me how to play quietly.

I have flute pupils with the same problem.

And how do you solve it?
(Or perhaps I should rephrase that: Are you successful in getting them to do anything about it? and if so how?)

I think what tends to happen is that other parts of their playing get more automatic, and then they're able to switch their attention back to working on both the loud and quiet aspects of their sound.

Given the choice, I'd rather teach a player whose natural sound was loud rather than one whose natural sound was quiet, but it might be the other way round for teachers of other woodwind instruments. What say you, Scaramouche?

I'd prefer them to play loudly if I had to choose yes. I guess one can tell pupils to shush (lol) it's only a matter of control, but if one just can't play louder then it's more of a problem, in my opinion. Luckily I played quiet but one day it just clicked, think it was perhaps to do with me being afraid of playing loudly in a way.

Oh dear The more the rest of my playing gets automatic, the quieter I seem to be getting. (My daughter cheerfully told me that now if she goes two-flights upstairs and shuts the door she can longer hear me practising!)

I think part of my problem is that I don't have a proper perception of how loud I am playing. Quite often I think I am playing loudly and then my teacher says "That part is supposed to be forte."

I used to have the same problem with the piano and the violin as well.

Just out of interest, why would you rather teach someone whose sound is naturally loud?

As Scaramouche says, it's easier to tone down a loud player than to get someone who is naturally quiet to play out. Often it is a personality thing as much as a physical one - I teach a lot of girls in their early teens who seem scared of being heard. I often don't have the same problem with the juniors.

Do you mean getting someone who is naturally quiet to play loudly is hard because it is not just technical but involves trying to change their personality?

And, I suppose linked to this, are naturally loud players always extroverts?

It's more teenage self-consciousness, i think. I teach a very quiet 10-year-old who scarcely says a word, but who plays with a lovely projected sound and takes part in any performance opportunity offered.

I know a lot of 'performers' (those who enjoy acting for example) who are introverts.

I haven't been a teenager for more than twenty years but I am still self-conscious about playing loudly

I'm not sure teenagers necessarily grow out of it!

A variant on Claire21's original question about oboe dynamics.
I am playing a duet in a concert with my teacher on Wednesday. He has told me to forget about dynamics and aim to play everything fortissimo. His theory being that 1) my idea of fortissimo is not the same as his, 2) trying to play loudly ought to counteract nerves and will in any case insure that there is enough air going through the instrument for all the notes to come out, 3) it is hard to remove all dynamics from a piece you know well, particularly in a duet where the other person is putting them in so I am bound to put some in in spite of myself.

I don't know that I am overly convinced by his reasons but I will give it a try.

Let us know how it goes

I think examiners are often not aware of the particular difficulties in different instruments, since they have to examine the whole lot. This might mean you get some unreasonable comments about dynamics, but it might also mean you get extra marks for something which sounds impressive but is actually very easy. I have a theory that the marks are more likely to vary widely between examiners on unusual instruments because the examiners are less likely to know what to expect, whereas they all have to be pianists to play the aural tests so a pianist has no escape.

Don't get stressed about the lack of dynamics, although if you can get your pupil to put them in, so much the better. It's not going to cost very many marks, and if the examiner writes something about it on the mark sheet you can just explain to the pupil that since he wasn't a saxophonist he didn't know how hard it was.

I have generally found (with the exception of this year's results ) that the level expected for lower grades on recorders at least, is surprisingly low.

I'm slightly less worried now - bless her, she went away for a week, practised loads and came to her last lesson doing a pretty good p.

Isn't it great when students do what you suggest and actually *practise*?!

Yes!!!!!