Having been put right on my shameful ignorance of the violin bows (now being rectified) are there any such nuances about which rosin to use or is rosin just rosin whatever the colour or shape?. I remember using a black one many years ago - the one I have now is golden-brown.

I once heard that it's a bit like teabags, everyone has their favourite blend and you won't know what that is until you've tried a few.

There's obviously the cheap-and nasty....ie the stuff which comes with basic violin kits, sheds lots of sticky dust on you and your instrument. The only place it stays stuck is under the strings, on the body of your violin and on the strings, where it can build up to such an extent that it can interfere with the vibration of the string (in extreme cases).

Then there is the super-expensive stuff that some people will swear by that most of us can't tell the difference from 'average' rosin.

In between you've got quite a few brands, some of which are marketed as more suitable for certain types of strings.

In addition there is some rather expensive specialist low-dusting and/or hypoallergenic rosin which may be more suitable for string players who have an allery to rosin dust (becoming more common, I believe).

From there, it's up to you.
When you do try another type, the best time to do it is either straight after a rehair or after cleaning the old rosin off your bow.

Muchos gracias, Minstrel. Thought I'd better check. Mmm never thought of people being allergic to the stuff - that must be a bit of a drag.

I just use any old Rosin...

I use Pirastro Goldflex - it seems to suit Obligato strings very well. It contains gold dust, hence the name, but is not outrageously expensive. When I had Dominant strings I used the newish Dominant rosin, to good effect.

Hi Goldfinch, I use Pirastro Eudoxa to go with my Eudoxa/Olive strings, but I started off just using Hidersine from my local music shop and to be honest the main difference seems to have been the price so far! I think my dodgy playing will mask any real benefit for a while yet.
N

I use ArtCraft rosin and I find that using the dark or the light makes a difference- dark rosin tends to be coarser. I have been through a large selection of rosins and I like this one the best

I suppose as long as it creates the friction there can't be that much difference but 'gold dust' - you've gotta be kidding? That just has to be the ulitimate accessory! All it lacks is a butler to apply it. Wow. Does it come in a diamond encrusted box? I want I want

Maybe that's the market they're aiming for! "for the violinist who has everything"??

I can't imagine how gold dust could make the slightest difference

It is pretty... .... http://images.music123.com/products/origin...astro/63997.jpg

I trade this product in the Chemical Industry ! What is used as violin rosin is known as WW Gum Rosin (it comes from gum bearing trees like acacia etc), I could sell you a few tonnes broken (kibbled) in irregular shaped pieces! Its used in the adhesives industry, and to add grip on tennis court coverings etc. String instrument rosin will only be a tiny part of the market.
Best quality is Portuguese WW Gum Rosin, but theres a load of inferior Chinese stuff around which has more impurities.

How long does Rosin last?

When I played as a child/ teenager a cake of Rosin would last about 6 months at most before becoming kibbled (thanks for the technical term - never knew I was doing something scientific) and ground underfoot to add grip to the parquet floor of the school hall.

Since restarting as an adult I have had one cake of Rosin which has lasted about 3 years so far. It has worn down evenly without developing a groove (and I have developed a mild obsessive condition about that too, but thats another story) so at current progress I reckon I could get about another 3-5 years out of it.

But does Rosin age and become less effective? Can I carry on with my record breaking attempt or do I need a new cake of WW Gum mixed with Gold Dust.


(By the way Sarah-flute Pirastro Goldflex is far more beautiful than the picture suggests)

The rosin is a very stable product chemically, it hardly reacts with or dissolves in any solvent or water.
A piece should last until its completely worn down .

According to Pirastro, as rosin gets older it slowly dries out, and they recommend that it should be used within one year.

Also according to Pirastro, rosin is made from the resin collected from pine trees, which is heated to evaporate the water and to remove impurities. The pure resin is then heated and other ingredients (including oil) are added before the rosin cakes are formed. Different formulations of rosin have different ingredients added in this last stage, and it is these that give different rosins different characteristics.

Violin and viola rosin is drier and harder than the stickier rosin used by double bassists.
Different types of rosin also suit different types of string. Steel strings can be better played with dry or harder rosin, synthetic strings with medium and gut or gut wound strings with a more sticky rosin.

Dry rosin is best in tropical climates and soft rosin in cold climates.

Oh dear!

re: age of rosin - I have to say I agree from experience with Pirastro. Not sure about using it within a year, I think that is excessive, but certainly the rosin that was in my violin case from when I was at school was not usable 5 or 6 years later. It may not chemically change, but it dries out and just does not work any more.

Another interesting snipped gleaned from my occasional samedi afternoon at the local lutherie as a helping hand (what fun I'm having!):

Don't trust the colour of rosin - people often think that darker = more grip - not so. Many rosins nowadays are coloured with dye (The American market prefers green rosin for some reason...) - the thing to look for is how soft the rosin is - the more 'pâteux' (can't think of a suitable English word... sticky, squidgy...) it is, the more grip it will have and the harder it is, the less it will have. Some very sticky rosins can be very light in colour and some particularly hard ones very dark.

My luthier reckons to change rosin every six months, which seems to be consistent with all other French luthiers I've spoken to. I am totally convinced this is purely marketing!

I use mine for about two years, or until it runs out - whichever comes first.

Allan

I have a thing about the cross-grooves on my rosin; the one that started off has to always be the deeper - they must never meet in the middle. I also use the other parts of the top so that the grooves don't get too deep - I know exactly the depth they may be and no more. I always tap the bow on my knuckle after putting rosin on although I know there's nothing loose to fall off I also have to take the rosin out of the case before the shoulder rest even if I'm not using the rosin. Then once the shoulder rest is out I can put the rosin back in ... it's like my little ritual

But I'm otherwise perfectly sane and have no other OCD symptoms

Incidently, the rosin in my Dad's violin case is over 30 years old... maybe I should buy him a new (gold-dust) one for his birthday???? Is it expensive?

Sounds like a great present - a quick browse shows it's about £7 or £8 online, e.g. Think Music, Bristol Violin Shop

You made me chuckle! I also have my 'little rituals' I too have to do things in a certain order...first I tighten by bow and put rosin on if needed (6 strokes, no more no less) then put the shoulder rest on (but like you the rosin comes out regardless), I always pay attention to use the rosin evenly so that it is always 'flat' and not too overused on one side rather than an other...

is it a 'string instrument' thing? I certainly do not have any 'rituals' with piano (same ritual goes on when cleaning violin at end of session etc).

The rosin that some 'claim' to be the 'creme de la creme' is: Liebenzeller Gold Rosin Violin
it is £15.50 and available here (this is the cheapest I could find, some places sell it at £30 )
http://www.vivaceviolin.com/pp/Accessories/Rosins/Gold.html

On the site it says:
This rosin is obtained from pure larch (Larix europoea) gum. The addition of gold during the manufacturing process creates a tone which has been described as alive, warm and luminous.

The Gold rosin has well balanced properties. The tone produced is full, round and warm but also has clarity and brilliance.

Crumbs! For fifteen squids, I don't well balanced, I want Maxim-Vengerov-playing-a-Strad type sounds to issue from my fiddle!

So is my luthier stingy? I rented a 1/8 cello for my daughter for a year and then from the same luthier bought a 1/2 size cello. He deducted three months' rent from the price of the 1/2 cello but told me to take the rosin out of the 1/8 cello and keep it. He didn't offer to give me a new one.


And imagine if you dropped it on the floor. In the first few years of playing the violin I used to get through several blocks of rosin a year because I kept dropping them on the floor and they would smash into a thousand pieces.

I'd quite happily buy this for Dad but he's only got about half-a-dozen hairs left on his bow and I wouldn't want the rosin to be worth more than the bow

Actually, I don't know how good his bow is but he's not had it re-haired for probably over 40 years ( ) He is also currently resisting my offers to have it professionally re-done for him, or even to buy the hair so he can do it himself! He says it's "comfy" just as it it. Any fewer hairs and it won't be making any sound at all But then he's also refusing to change his 25yr old strings. He had the packet for them in the case but the paper fell to pieces years ago so I don't even know what they were...

Talk about 'aul' mannies' stuck in their ways

Awww, Lottie, your dad sounds like a sweetie *grin*

I've found gold rosin to be a good present for adults who don't play as much as they used to (retired violin teachers etc!), especially because they also probably haven't had a bow re-hair done too recently either.

And as for old strings...I know somebody not a hundred miles from this forum who REFUSES to let me buy her new strings for her birthday, because she vastly PREFERS her 25-year old strings. She tried some new ones and took them off and put the old ones back on, apparently. Better the devil you know, I guess?

Lottie, I would arrange a violin-case kidnap for your dad's birthday and do the deeds!

Absolutely. He won't believe the difference a rehair, new set of strings, and new (even without gold dust) rosin will make.

Cost about £60-£65 all in I should think if you get the strings and rosin on the net. Or if your budget would extend a bit further have a luthier do it, giving you some advice on the strings, checking out the setup and smartening up the varnish a bit perhaps

I told Dad I was taking his violin to Glasgow in September to have it valued. He was okay about that. Then I suggested to him that I have his bow done and new strings put on while I'm there and was met with silence .

However, today I was telling him all about gold rosin and he quietly asked when I was going to Glasgow - so he's curious and beginning to come round to the idea his fiddle is seriously gorgeous and warrants loving care and attention. The whole deal will be his birthday present and I think he's really quite excited .... and yes he's a real sweetie

Does he still play regularly Lottie?

That's the sad thing. Very occasionally he takes it out and plays a bit of Grappelli but always to himself, he never even plays for me. He has arthritis in his thumbs so I think it's quite difficult for him. He's always played just for himself (he was more interested in building and repairing fiddles really) so I've only heard him very, very rarely. It's a shame because he's an extremely knowledgable person.

He's told me I will inherit his violin in time but I want to get it fixed up for him now so that he can enjoy it all the more on the occasions he does play. I'm hoping that new strings and bow-hair might encourage him to play more and perhaps even teach me a few things. I have no intentions of taking his fiddle away because I play a 7/8th Gama and completely love it.

I'm interested in how much difference rosin can make.
I've just been away for five days - just before I went, I changed rosin brand. Now, having come back, my cello sounds much nicer than I remember! Is this the rosin, or the shock of not playing for five days? How much can rosin make a difference?

I used to use ArtCraft rosin on my violin but about 10 years ago switched to the Liebenzeller gold dust on the recommendation of a friend - it only cost £7 then, though that was still nearly twice as much as the Artcraft. I thought it made a big difference to the sound and now I would never use anything else. I am very careful with it and still have half left, so the actual daily cost is minimal for a very noticeable improvement in sound - almost a free lunch, as far as I am concerned!

aaawwwww, I am sure it will bring a 'sparkle' in him and he will 'secretly' start playing more often, shame he does not play more often in 'company' but so far that he enjoys that's all that matters!



I have heard many people saying this, I think I will end up buying the Liebenzeller rosin, like you said it lasts a long time so it won't put me out of pocket too much in the long run, and I might be pleasantly surprised!

Lottie, I think a violin 'service and MOT' would be a wonderful present. It's a shame when physical problems mean playing can't happen as much, but that's no reason not to have the equipment in good condition. I'm sure he'll enjoy his playing so much more with everything given a tidy up.
(If you read the Adult Learners forum, you'll find lots of adults being self-critical. So for some adults, there's no point in having top-quality kit because I'll never be a professional / it's just for fun / I'm not that good. Obviously none of that may be the case here, but just thought to mention it - not least because I'm the sort of person who would be thinking those sorts of thoughts).
Also, these are the sort of 'practical' presents we rarely give ourselves; my mum knows that for my birthday she can always buy me a haircut! It sounds daft, but most of the rest of the year £25 can be so much more usefully used on almost anything else I can think of! For an occasional player, a bow-rehair, new rosin, new strings and so on can fall very low down the priority list.

£15 for rosin is, in rosin terms, expensive. I know I'm thinking in cello terms, but with a £1000 instrument, a £250 bow, a £175 case, and £80 for strings (a set of dominants)...£15 on the rosin really isn't that much! And if you're going to make a sparkly violin, why not have sparkly rosin to go with it

It's winter...son Viohazard is using some Japanese-made rosin that is 1)Designed not to be too sticky in hot, humid weather, and 2) oldish - a hand-me-down from his teacher, who now uses a hypo-allergenic rosin. The rosin is crumbling very easily when rosining the bow - it's reputed to contain wax as well as resins, and that may be why...

Our house is old and cold - easily drops to 5degC (40degF) in unheated rooms even during the daytime - but during the summer, temps can just as easily soar past 35degC (95degF).

Would love to hear recommendations for violin rosins that people have found easy to use/play with in either cold, dry conditions, or steamy, hot conditions.

Thanks .

I use Melos rosin, both light and dark varieties.
http://www.melosrosin.gr/
It's handmade and produces the most wonderful pine scent when you apply it to the bow.

The light is good for warmer/more humid conditions as it isn't too sticky, produces very little dust if used properly and doesn't clog the hair.

The dark is more grippy and better for cold/dry conditions, you can also mix the two types on the bow so as to tailor the feel to your own preference.

I tend to use to the light for general playing and the dark for fiddling when I might need to 'dig in' more.


Melos retails at around £9.95 in the UK.

I use Bernardel and love it! It produces hardly any dust is very fine. Also it's light enough to endure really humid weather and produces a nice, clear sound. A friend of mine wanted to buy Liebenzeller but was recommended against it.. according to the sales person it's not much different from most good rosins and wasn't really worth the exorbitant price. Don't know how true that is, though.

I have heard that Bernardel is not bad for humid conditions - thanks!

Ms. Fiddle, did you prefer the dark/stickier Melos to, say, the No. 2 Liebenzeller or Millant Deroux (which in Japan has the reputation for being a bit too sticky for summer, but OK for winter)? I'm just curious, because Melos is not that well known!

Hi
I use Liebenzeller Gold II having used Dominant rosin before and I noticed the difference. Only trouble is Liebenzeller is very expensive (Mr Blackbird got me some as an Xmas present) so I hope it lasts ages

I hadn't tried either of the rosins you mention so can't comment I'm afraid. I also can't really state an opinion on any particular rosin's suitability for your climate, sorry.

Before using Melos I used Jade, both Jade and Melos being recommended to me by other players.

Sorry to be so curious, I just hadn't heard of anybody who'd actually used Melos before, and couldn't resist asking questions!

Thanks for the comments - I'm compiling a shopping list for next time we're close to one of the big instrumental shops in Tokyo!

I got a question. I bought my Viola a while ago (over 6 months) and I have been using the cake rosin that had came with it and everything has been good. Well a few weeks ago the rosin broke and I decided to buy some new rosin from my teacher. He insist that I take some of the rosin that he has laying around, its awfully generous of him but the thing is the rosin is from the Violin kits and I'm not sure if I should clean the strings first, then apply the rosin or should I just put it on.

I've finished suzuki book 2 (Still playing out of it though) and I really like playing Viola, I might try to play professionally but I don't know. Do you think this is a good idea? (Another weird thing he said during lesson this week about rosin is that Violins,Violas,and Cellos all use the same rosin but the double bass doesn't, why would they sell specific rosin for specific instruments if they all more or less worked on all the instruments except bass. My teacher suggested I get a new more qualified viola private teacher, and I am and I don't want to go to my first lesson with obvious sound problems that I should have fixed by then)

Thanks everyone.
(I'm a bit sick, sorry about my grammar)

Normally when switching rosins I just wipe the strings, it's not that important. I'm more concerned about the mixup of rosin powers on the bow hair, so I just try to 'play off' the old rosin as much as I can and then apply the new one.



There are 2 main types of rosin, light and dark. Generally violins use lighter rosins but the bigger instruments like the cello need softer and darker rosins which as stickier to help grip the strings better. Violinists also alternate between light and dark depending on seasons and weather sometimes. So I assume your teacher is referring to the dark type, because it can be used on violins, violas and cellos. Double basses use a special type of rosin which is very very soft because it needs to really grip the thick strings.. and this rosin isn't used on the other instruments.

Hope this helps.. I hope I wrote all that correctly.

Most rosins these days have commercially produced colour put in them - this can make them dark when they aren't actually any stickier than the light version (some are produced in different colours for different markets, apparently green rosin is very popular in the US...) - so the colour is no longer a true indicator of the stickiness of the rosin.

A good quality normal rosin will be suitable for everything from violin to cello these days, with the Double bass ones being slightly stickier. Some people, however, prefer a stickier rosin (as the last poster pointed out, violinists in dry conditions, some viola players and some cellists, for example) - and in this case, you should be careful to purchase a specifically heavier rosin, rather than just a darker coloured one.

It's just personal preference though - rosin technology has come on a load.

My luthier 'prefers' to change rosin only after the bow has been re-haired (or been washed thoroughly with meth and rinsed and dried)....
He told me this when I went to have my bow rehaired and he said my bow was perfectly fine and didn't need to be rehaired just yet (it's been one year I play with it), so I felt guilty about leaving without buying anything and was going to buy the Liebenzeller gold rosin off him and he said 'I won't sell that to you yet as it's best to change rosin once you have re-haired the bow, so in 6 months or later, when you come back for the bow you can buy it !'
Bless him, I like him because he's so honest

That's a good thing. My luthier won't sell me anything that he doesn't think is worth buying even if he has tons of it in stock. Yeah the green rosin, it's called Jade isn't it? I've seen that before.. wonder if it works well. It's really pretty..

Speaking of rehair, my teacher doesn't believe it that. She just uses water to clean her bow hair when it gets dirty and then hangs it out to dry. Has anyone tried that before? Seems risky, and my luthier strongly advises against it because you might damage the wood. But I'm tempted to give it a try.. it's a good alternative for poor students

Hey Sphiff, I use the Jade stuff and I like it. Give it a try, I don't think it's very expensive - 6/7 euro, maybe?

This may be silly but you're supposed to use lighter rosins (usually more brittle) in the summer, and darker, gummier rosins in the winter (when they won't leave any rosin on the bow).