As a pensioner enjoying singing and piano lessons I have been reading the money thread with interest. My concern is different - when will the fees increase? I did ask my singing teacher if her fees had increased when I started the second year with her - she said no. My piano teacher hasn't said anything yet but I am just into my second year now.
I need to budget but do not want deprive two wonderful teachers of professional fees. I am not sure if they are not increasing the fees because I have retired.
I would prefer a small increase regularly than a big hike.

Hi BachPensioner.

I do make a small annual increase in fees, in September in my case, after having to make a big increase two years ago when I realised I was falling behind. I teach a retired lady who asked anxiously about the fees increase the first time I made a small one, so I have continued to raise hers by 50p a lesson, even when I increased the others' fees by more, and now think of it as a retired person's rate. She's paying £2 less than my normal fee at the moment. So it may be that your teachers do likewise.

Hello Bach Pensioner,

I am sure there is no great need to concern yourself. I feel certain, like the above poster said, that your teacher is probably aware of the fianancial restrictions imposed on you being a pensioner.

If however it worries you, I would mention it and point out that you have a set income and have been worrying..I am sure that your teachers will put your mind at rest. Andante seems to have the right idea and I think that the tiny increase of 50p is very reasonable and kind...doing it like that both parties feel comfortable with the situation and I am sure your teachers enjoy your company and the fact that you love studying so much...that in itself is a huge compensation given that not all pupils are so willing or that keen.

Keep going but don't hide your concerns if it's on your mind mention it and your concerns.

Kindest regards

Andrew

The musicians' unions and societies usually recommend a going rate which normally (slightly) rises yearly.

Every music teacher will adjust this rate to the area they live in, their experience etc. anyway.
I normally rise my rates when I feel the need it is necessary, but like the others I normally stick to very small increases. It is better for student AND teacher if the yearly increase is something like 50p or 1£ than waiting for years till one has fallen behind the going rates and then having to rise in a big leap.

I am sure your teachers will probably do the same, so don't worry too much ...

I think raising rates slightly but regularly is a sound business practice for the teacher and fair for the student.

An interesting anecdote about a local teacher from whom I have taken periodic lessons and enjoyed very pleasant student recitals with a mix of very interesting fellow students, many serious musicians but with busy working lives:

This teacher, who caters primarily to more advanced amateurs and conservatory students with particular technical isssues, had not increased his rates in almost four years and felt himself getting behind financially. At the same time, the music teachers union had recommended that he no longer work with loose, individually arranged lessons but require that everyone commit to a yearly amount of contractual hours with a minimum of twice monthly regular lessons, in order to ensure his income.

Everyone received an email from him that as no increases had taken place in recent years and as he had just bought a new Bosendorfer, rates were to increase by 25%. In addition, anyone wanting to have the favour of receiving lessons from him could no longer plan individual lessons, but must commit to a yearly contract. The intention was to decrease the amount of active students slightly while increasing the hours (and impact) per student.

The decision was easy for me: no more lessons from this, incidentally very talented, teacher. I let him know that I was simply too busy for lessons. I ran into him 7 months later at a concert. He indicated that business was very poor, as suddenly this year almost all his long-standing students had become too busy to take lessons!

So, next time your teacher asks for a modest increase, as long as it is still within reach, pay it with pleasure. You might be protecting them from themselves while ensuring you can maintain your productive relationship with them.

I like the suggestions about having people pay based on their ability to pay. I know that my current teacher gives half-price lessons to two very talented youths from modest backgrounds who are very serious about their practice.

I try not to raise my fees by any more than is absolutely necessary, but I have also been rather too benevolent towards some students and have now got to the point where I will simply have to increase their fees by £3 or more. These are students who have not had a fee increase for say 6 years or so.

Some of them are good long-term students who are genuinely strapped for disposable cash (just like most musicians), but there are also a couple of students who have recently bought brand new 4x4 vehicles, so I will not be feeling guilty when I put their lesson fees up!

A friend of mine put it to me like this: If you don't put your fees up in line with inflation you are effectively earning less than you were last year! Small annual hikes are fair enough and a lot less painful for all concerned. If any parents (generally sitting in their large house with their two cars!) complains, I point out that attending many other 'proper schools' of music in the city is far more expensive. I can quote prices at them and that generally brings the conversation to an abrupt halt!

Prices for students, the unwaged or retired people on the other hand are totally fair and acceptable. I benefitted from these things as a student and hope to when I reach retirement (in forty years or so...) and like to hear of my parents taking advantage of the various reductions they receive at the theatre etc. I don't have any students in these positions, but if I did (or if I ever do!) I will certainly alter their rate.

I hope you can continue in your musical pursuits Bach Pensioner...I look forward to continuing to read your posts about them!

I think it's important to increase fees annually. That way the increases can be kept to a minimum, rather than a big hike every few years. I increase mine every September, and send letters out at the beginning of August. Students now expect an increase at that time, so it's not so embarrassing. I do get embarrassed about it, but everyone else gets a cost of living rise, so why not me? Everything else goes up - council tax, fuel bills, petrol, dog kennels, mortgage rates. I can't offer a lower rate to students or pensioners, or my income would take a real downturn. Then I would be accepting lower fees for many students, but paying full price for everything I have to buy because I am neither of these. How does that work? And how would I explain it to the next student, who sees the one before her paying me less than she does? (I charge weekly, and prefer it that way.)
Whilst I can keep my books full without giving a discount, there's no incentive for me to offer one. I appreciate this sounds harsh, but many businesses have taken a downturn by not charging the correct rates. And how many music teachers do you know who complain that they do not earn a decent living? I have invested tens of thousands of pounds (not to mention years) in training to get me to the standard that you would want me to be to pay me to sing, or be the best teacher I can be. I deserve now to be reaping the rewards.

I've never increased mine by more than 50p at a time, which goes down fine. I usually give plenty of notice at the end of the year, so it doesn't come as a shock to anyone.

I don't give reductions for the same reasons Ann has given.

Thanks everybody for the useful input - I don't know if my teachers are giving me a reduced rate for pensioners and actually - I do not expect it. I do expect an increase and do not want what was mentioned in one post - a biggish increase after a number of years.
I feel it is important for those who do not add to a teacher's measurable output (can you guess what work I did?) by passing exams to also take advantage of age and pay less. My piano tuner does not reduce fees for pensioners!
The other side of the pensioner debate is that the other concessions I receive (bus pass, cheaper concert tickets etc) help to pay for my lessons.

I think AnnC summed it up perfectly.

The government publishes inflation figures every year. We all know that they're kept as low as possible by clever manipulation and that inflation affects people in different ways.

The best thing is to increase prices based on the local and personal conditions- BUT give details!

If the council has increased council tax by 10%, include it in your calculations and mention it in your letters.

Always show why prices increase.

Steve

PS I remember when council tax had to increase in Herts by a huge percentage. Seems that the councillors all 'needed' laptops, and the police needed more money.

Now that laptops have come down in price, the police are making loads of money from speeding and ..."crime is down in UK" then we'll see a huge decrease in council tax this year!

Or will we?

I put up my rates by £1 an hour each September. So if someone only had a half hour less, then the increase would only be 50p.

I issue my pupils with a notice in advance saying "With effect from 1st September, rates for the academic year 2007/2008 will be . . ."

It's easier than apologetically doing it in person and I have never yet lost a pupil purely from a rate increase.

I'm afraid I don't decrease my fees for students, the unwaged or pensioners. I have bills to pay.

But remember, experience shows that if your explanation for your increase is that you bought a new Bosendorfer you can't afford and you want all your busy, adult amateurs to commit to an inflexible, kid's music school kind of roster, that it might backfire on you !

I don't see any need to explain increases. Eveyone know that ALL prices go up regularly, as do the salaries of those in employment. Why not our fees? I would only explain if increases were more than inflation - i.e. if fees hadn't been increased for some years, so there was catching up to do, extra qualifications or similar.

JulieCSM - if you increase your fees by £1 every September, you are effectively awarding youself a smaller and smaller percentage increase every year!

Russell - you are doing something wrong somewhere!! Music teaching pays more than that!

I am aware of that - basic maths you know. However, it's still above inflation. If that should change then it will go up by more.

Just out of interest... how much do you charge per half hour? Are there any websites, etc. that provide information/recommendations on how much to charge?

I've rather liked dealing wit the numbers and change this year, so am tempted to keep it the same. However what with the recent flooding potentially affecting vegetable prices next year, I will probably put them up in January anyway. Just got to see what happens at the end our current mortgage deal and what happens over food pricing.

I found some ISM documents on recommended fees for accompanists/private teachers:

http://www.peripatetics.co.uk/index.php?op...=4&Itemid=4

Hope you find them useful.

RP

But don't forget these are a couple of years out of date. We are asked to take part in a survey on "What WERE your fees for this particular year?" I've had two increases since the last survey.

Has anyone evr increased their fees after Christmas as opposed to in September? I'm considering that this year, but am not sure if it's normal practice. ?

I used to increase the fees in January but in recent years have changed it to September - parents probably receive the news better at the start of the academic year than after the expense of Christmas. Having said that, I never had any grumbling when the letter went out in January.

Edit: just realised that reads wrong - used to send the letter out in December, to take effect in January

I've normally increased fees for the beginning of January.
I give a month's notice of increase.
I'll probably move it to the start of the tax year though.

my fees go up 50p per half hour every two years and always at easter i.e. near the budget to take effect for lessons in the summer term. I offer a £2.00 discount for the one hour lesson but not many have those so its no great financial loss.

My daughters string teacher put her price up by 50% this year which was a shock!

Biennially?


It's not the same to you, though. In the in-between year that you charged £10 instead of £10.25, you lost 25p per lesson. Now you've got to make up for that. The next year you'd be due to charge £10.50, but in fact you'd have to put it up to £10.75 to recoup that 25p a year you lost by not changing the previous year. So your biennial fee changes would have to follow the pattern 10, 10.75, 11, 11.75 etc. for it to be the same.

At present, you accumulate a 25p per lesson deficit every other year, by going up 50p every other year instead of 25p every year. You'll never recoup that loss during your teaching career unless you change your fee structure to the alternate 75p then 25p increments, or change to annual 25p increments rather than 50p every other year. If you work out the loss-per-pupil it's £6 a year on average, assuming 48 lessons per pupil per year. If you taught 30 or so lessons a week for 40 years, the loss over your career would be coming up to £10000.

Your £10000, not mine .

But maybe he's raising his fees early, not late.
e.g. instead of charging 10.25, 10.50, 10.75, 11.00, he's charging 10.50, 10.50, 11.00, 11.00
In which case he's making £10,000 by your calculations!
(In any case I don't think you can easily calculate the amount of money lost/gained as his rates will affect the number of students + number of lessons taken, some people may not like the price going up every year, others may be discouraged by the larger increases every two years etc. etc.)

I find increasing fees difficult to broach at any time of the year! I feel unable to just say 'fees are increasing...'; I always feel I have to justify myself. Am I pathetic, or does anybody else find this awkward too? It might be because I've got to know most of my parents too well now - I feel a new thread coming on...

I know exactly how you feel, and I guess most of us feel the same. But when I increased my fees last year -and by quite a jump, as I foolishly hadn't increased them since I started teaching here 3 years ago - not one parent complained. I did explain that because I hadn't increased them for so long, I was way under the level recommended by the MU and ISM, so I suppose they couldn't argue with that!

There was a thread here a while ago talking about discounts and someone made the very valid point that you are still doing the same job in every lesson, why should you lose money? If you are charging below the standard rate your parents should view that in itself as a 'bargain' and be happy with what they get. I increase my fees annually by €1 or so, which is reasonably well in keeping with inflation (as a % of what I earned previously) The only time a parent complained about the cost of lessons and looked for a discount I pointed out that firstly I go to their house, which is very convenient for them and secondly if they went to a music school it would cost them considerably more (I could quote prices per lesson, this helped). No one has complained since. (I should point however, that my students are all reasonably well-off. I can see the issue for parents who may have more trouble paying for lessons.)

I charged by the half-term one year and most of the parents (there weren't many at the time!) said it was far more hassle than paying me three times a year. Giving out bills that regularly was a slightly uncomfortable experience. And these days with standing orders and all that available, people can always opt to pay you monthly rather than in cash.

David, just wondering what happens about missed lessons for the ones who pay weekly in cash?

In any case, you are all very well qualified and dedicated teachers...you shouldn't worry about asking to be paid properly! Parents on the whole don't mind paying for good service!

How many people pay their teacher in cash? Is it the choice of the pupil or the teacher? What are the advantages - are there disadvantages?

I find having to get a five pound note every week quite difficult (to add to the £20, in case anyone thinks that is all I am paying!)

I pay my teacher each lesson in cash but I could write a cheque if I wanted.
I used to pay her monthly as this was easier for me but now I have fortnightly lessons and pay each lesson.
Does your teacher never have change?
As a teacher myself I charge monthly and some pay in cash, some by cheque.

I am paid pretty much half and half. Only had a couple of bounced cheques but these were honoured soon after. I prefer a cheque though. Cash is too easy to spend. I can hold on to cheques for a wee while and use them when I need to. Private lessons are paid monthly, school, termly.

I have advised my schools of a 50p increase as of next term. It is due anyway. Not puffing myself up but got wonderful feedback from HOD's last year and could see for myself that the effort put in by some of my peri colleagues was minimal. Very disorganised and had HOD's frazzled.
I do offer a very professioal 'service' and I am reliable.

My son takes guitar lessons from a young man who graduated this year. He had been charging £5 for half hour, most reasonable, no exams and the like, just chords and songs. I have been advised that his lesson will now be £8. Same lesson but I wonder how he can justify the hike. I have been teaching for 25 years and am thinking about 50p!!!

I think £5 is much too little for anyone to charge, even a newly qualified teacher. £8 sounds about right.

It makes business sense: if the parents have the option of paying in cash per week, rather than in a complete block, because it's to your advantage to have a complete block you need to give them an incentive to do this (or, of course, insist that they're not allowed to pay weekly, that's the other option). You gain a lot from doing this: firstly, you get paid for lessons not attended (and hence get better attendance), get a secure larger income at a certain time, have the money up-front earning interest for you, plus not having the inconvenience of handling money all the time and the increased costs of cashing individual business cheques. They don't really stand to gain much: they have to pay up front and find all the money at once (difficult for some); you get the interest on the money, not them; and they find it much harder not to pay for a lesson in the event that little Johnny had a football match that was more important than their lesson. With this in mind, many would want to pay weekly, the discount gives them an incentive to do what you want. It happens in many businesses: buy in bulk and make a saving, we don't question why those two extra free toilet rolls in Tesco should be free, they didn't actually cost any less to make, we just buy them!*

* My apologies for comparing instrumental lessons to toilet rolls!

Edit: just another thought, instead of thinking of it as a discount for paying in bulk, one could think of it as an extra charge for paying in weekly installments....

.

I get paid on the day. It works out about one third cheques, two thirds cash. I make it clear I don't mind either. I get paid for missed lessons - it's in my Ts and Cs - and get no complaints, in fact I don't even have to ask, they bring it at the next lesson.
They've all just had their letters about the £1 increase next month (for 45 minutes). As usual, no one has commented. Because I do it EVERY September, it's expected. I give no discounts.

I agree. There's no need to justify an increase. It is simply a cost of living rise, together with an increment for accrued experience.

I ask pupils to pay by cheque (monthly rather than every lesson) and most do. It seems to work out better that way - hunting around for change is a pain and eats into valuable lesson time. It also means the money makes it to my bank account, rather than me spending it all first


Absolutely.

Yep. I have no quibble about the fee persay, my son is learning and he enjoys his lessons. His guitar teacher isn't actually a qualified teacher. Again, not a problem as such for me. I was thinking in line of the fees thread. I am qualified. I have many years more experience and I am good at what I do. (No I don't have a swollen opinion of myself ,) . But if I am honest, I do have a gripe with such a hike, when I consider what I offer my pupils, compared to what my son gets. I'm cheap labour . Any wonder music teachers feel hard done by. Does ANYONE get my drift?