One recent birthday present was a clock that also measures humidity and temperature, in two different locations. so I have the clock part on top of the piano and the remote inside the piano. For the last couple of weeks, with all the rain, the humidity levels have been in the upper 60s% for both. Today, it is fine ( ) for the first time for ages, and I can see everything drying up outside. The humidity above the piano is 57% but the level inside the piano is 71%. Is this something to worry about or is it just more information than I had before?

My piano tuner puts a jar of water inside my upright piano as it's about 60 years old, so I guess humidity is better than being dry, but hopefully there's a tuner on here somewhere who might help further. If not, can you ring your own piano tuner to ask?

Putting water INSIDE the piano is a really bad thing to do - it oxidizes the strings and can cause them to snap - to make the atmosphere more humid buy humidifiers for radiators etc BUT DO NOT PUT WATER IN THE PIANO !!!!!

My tuner also advises me to put a jar of water in the bottom of the piano (new in 1971) at the top end !
In fact, if its gone dry when he comes I get told off .
It seems there are two conflicting schools of thought on this !

My tuner also tells me to put a jar of water in the piano. I have just had a quick look on the internet as I had never thought to question it before I read this thread and found this

http://www.pianoland.com/tuning.htm

hope it helps

Not making any personal connection to any of the posters or their tuners, but I believe that ye ol' jar of water in the piano is what is commonly called "an old wive's tale." Problem with jar of water is that when you really need the humidifying it does not evaporate on its on quickly enough to do the job right nor disperse properly to spread to all the areas. Also, unless you are looking inside every day to make sure there is water, it will run out and then go cold turkey from more humid to dry. Worse, when the heating is not on, and the extra humidity not needed, the water may still be there causing condensation, rusting strings and causing wood to expand and contract unevenly. Finally, jars of water can turn over and spill and getting lots of water (perhaps unnoticed) on the wood of a musical instrument is not a good thing.

I think if my tuner recommended me (or scolded me about not) putting a jar of water in my piano, I might question his competence and try out another tuner. It is amazing what a well-educated, experienced tuner with a good ear and/or the right equipment can do with a piano and it might be worth your while to shop around.

Constant temperature and humidity of the room where the piano is kept seems to be the best solution, however impractical. One piece of modern technology which I have only heard positive things about is:

http://dampp-chaser.com/

Personally, I don't like the idea of installing anything into/onto the piano.
We have one of these running during the coldest winter months:

http://www.plaston.com/uc/ats/products/airwasher/aos2055

I do have a dampp-chaser, installed by my technician a year or so ago. It seems to be a very good thing. The piano is now staying in tune between tunings (more or less!!!). However, humidity in the room can be anything between 50 and 80%, one of the problems of living in Cornwall!

As my piano is in the kitchen I have a humidity dial and a dehumidifier for when it gets too high.

What is too high?

i dont check anything in my piano - i just leave the tuner to it! should i be doing anything about it?

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I think it would be the humidity. I have a vase in my piano... though I've read here that it maybe isn't the best thing to do now My piano tuner said that it would be worth me doing that than getting a humidifier and it still seems to work ok.

I *think* BachPensioner is asking what level of humidity is "too high".

http://www.serve.com/marbeth/tune_piano.html

A dampp-chaser worked for me. i think fitted it cost me around £80, but then my technician did a whole lot of other time consuming things which involved having all the keys out too!!!

I seem to remember that he said the worst thing for the paino was fluctuating humidity, when it was high one minute and low the next, which is really bad for the soundboard.

Why don't you ask your tuner / technician for his advice when he comes next? If I had a very expensive piano there is another thing you can fit which regulated the humidity to keep it constant, but that was about £400. As my piano only cost £1100 I settled for the dampp-chaser.

I think Emma C's advice on the dampp-chaser sounds like an appropriate solution for your situation.
Maybe you can wrangle an advance on next year's Birthday present?

Oops, sorry!!!

According to my humidity dial which I got from the people I bought the piano from the 'normal' range is 40% - 70%.

Thanks - that is a help - mine has been 70%ish for the last few weeks - but that is just in response to our humid conditions, which I don't think are normal at all.

Do keep an eye on it though - my piano strings started to rust after about six months, not badly, but enough to make me want to put a stop to it sharpish!

Having had a fairly lengthy conversation with a respected Concert Piano technician for Steinway, the opinion I was given that really given that we live in the Northern hemisphere we really shouldn't need to add humidifiers. He certainly didnt reccomend placing a jar of water in the piano but did mention that some people in the USA use the humidifier system which is named earlier in this thread, but he felt that it was very unlikely that they were really necessary, far better to ensure that the Piano is kept in a moderate temperature, not too close to a radiator or heat source, also that the Piano is not left swealtering in direct sunlight and that it is not exposed to draughts etc. Basically use some common sense was what I was advised and that does make sense...heaven forbid we should become neurotic like our American cousins who though living in a far more extreme climate than us live in constant fear of all sorts of situations "health wise" for their instruments...this gadget that gadget...if you think Pianos are tough to look after you should see their concerns regarding woodwind...its actually quite terrifying. How many of us here, had pianos as children, all of which survived very nicely provided they were treated with respect...we didnt wrap them in cotton wool, we just got on with it and so did our Pianos. I am not disputing for a moment that our instruments are valuable, in some cases very valuable and therfore must be taken care of, so surely a little prevention is far better than cure...if you need more humidity then hang a water tray on the radiator rather than put a possible accident waiting to happen in the Piano itself...there are many little de-himudifiers and humidifers on the market which you can plug in well away from the Piano...I would not advocate putting anything into the paino except your God given Talent.

Just my thoughts, no disrespect intended to any other ideas here or to our American cousins with or without neurosies...god love them.

Kindest regards

Andrew

Andrew, I largely agree.

I am no expert, but I do take my piano technician's advice seriously. I don't have a valuable piano, but I am very atached to it... I am told that I should be grateful that my Chappell has come - second-hand - from Leicester, where it has happily, been much loved, played and maintained for the last 80 years or so. It came to me with shiny 'new' strings and no woodorwm!!! For it's age it is lovely, and I'm very pleased with it. Had it been a 'Cornish' piano of that age it would probably be in a very sorry state - there are few pianos of that age without woodworm or rust. If putting a little heater inside it will help, as advised, I am happy to do so. I think it was money well spent, and I respect my technician's advice.

Everyone's technician will advise on their particular circumstances. Each part of the country will be very different humidity wise - it's 80% in my dining room today, about twice what a piano is supposed to be happy with. I can't remember a day recently when it was below 70. I just want to be careful. I guess you are luckier with your humidity than we are!

Hello Emma,

Yes I fully accept what you are saying, I too grew up in the westcountry, Dartmoor to be exact and we did, due to the southern climate have serious humidity problems which seeing as our climate changes more and more is probably far worse than it was.

Cornwall, such lovely place full of happy memories for me (we had a farm at St Anthony on the Helford River) certainly does have far greater humidity due to its southern reach and the closeness of the sea and sea air..always makes me sleepy even today. So I understand what you are saying about if your piano had been a cornish one it would have been in ruins, the salt would have got to it eventually. I am slightly concerned about you having a small heater in the piano...did you mean in or nearby???

Anyway, have not met you here before so nice to meet you, hope the weather in Cornwall is lovely now..

Kindest regards...


Andrew

Little heater as in dampp-chaser!!!! Equivalent of the heat of a light bulb I believe... I'm not about to set fire to it yet!

Yes Cornwall is lovely. Helford is wonderful, but I'm in the not-so-wonderful industrial heartland.... salt not much of a problem, and I can keep clay dust at bay!!!

You don't see me around here much - more in Viva Voice! Am member of Duchy Opera, which you may have heard of....

Ah ok I see, you have a damp chaser..I was slightly concerned that you were burning something like a small oil heater or fan type heater...set my alarm bells ringing...

Not familiar with the Duchy Opera, I am guessing that it is something to do with the Duchy of Cornwall as in HRH...it sounds lovely, what voice are you? Soprano, Mezzo, Alto? do you perform regularly ?
Might have an internet peek at the site if there is one...

Kindest regards

Andrew

I sing first soprano with the chorus - Duchy Opera We've just done Tosca and are raising funds for Semele next year. I'm only a newbie, but it's great fun. Looking forward to lots of concerts in the autumn / winter - some in some very posh places requiring posh clothes. Suits me down to the ground!!!

Good for you Emma it looks wonderful, keep us posted when next you are performing, I may well be in that neck of the woods and will try to come...it looks like a wonderful group...I have tons of posh clothes which will come as no surprise to some here

Kindest regards

Andrew

I'm wondering if you have a model number for your Dampp Chaser and if you're still happy with it?

I'm toying with the idea of getting one, not because my piano is valuable as such, but because it's survived 100 years or so before I got it, and I don't want to be responsible for its early demise after it's been subjected to my central heating and fluctuations in temperature.

Do many other people have one?

This thread has scared me a bit... Not looking forward to all the worry when I get an acoustic!

Do people leave their central heating on 24/7 to maintain a constant temperature or something?

If you get a new piano then you don't need to worry about these things, it is only for an older piano. At least that was what I was advised when I bought mine and I don't have any complaints.

I think I'll be buying around October, all depends on how things go with moving, I need to try to find somewhere with room for a small grand within my budget and with no, or accomodating neighbours... I suppose I'll have to knock next door when house-hunting and ask them how they would feel about it!

It's very possible that I'm being over-anxious, like an expectant mother before the arrival of her first baby ... I feel excited but a bit nervous about getting it ... and I'm worrying about doing the equivalent of dropping it

The humidity in my living room varies between 30% on cold winter days (dropping down to 25% at times) and 70% or so in summer.

From what I've read elsewhere, the ideal humidity for pianos is around 40% to 60% and that keeping a piano within this range helps with tuning stability and well as preventing damage to the instrument.

It's difficult to say just how critical his all is here in the UK (though it is well known that the low winter humidity in centrally heated houses causes cracking, etc, etc in antique furniture - so I would guess it's not a good thing).

This is something I have been thinking about as, if things go well, I am thinking about getting a decent acoustic piano. Depending on what I eventually get, I would seriously consider installing the official 'Dampp Chaser' system but not, emphatically NOT, some if the cheap low wattage heaters that are sold as "damp chasers" and have no regulation (and which would exacerbate the problem of low humidity in winter).

http://www.pianolifesaver.com/english/uprightsystem.php

However these systems need to be installed by approved agents and I think I saw a cost of about £600 (I might be wrong there).

Otherwise I will probably use a room humidifier with humidistat control in winter.

We have an 11 year old U1 which may (or may not) be very sensitive to humidity levels in our house. We are currently investigating this issue.

Based on the outcome of the tests we are doing, we will either A) Have to replace the piano (which the dealer has a replacement arriving any time now) or buy a damp chaser system.

I have now played many U1's and they all sound so different. I love the sound of our piano and want to persevere to solve the problem but it's no good if it cannot hold its tune for more than 4 hours grrrrrrr

The replacment piano might hold it's tune but we might not like the touch and tone. It's an annoying situation.

So if anyone is interested in the Damp Chaser system, they are welcome to see how we get on with it if we go down that route. Big sigh....


I have been quoted £375 fitted by an authorised technician



We currently have one running. The sensor on the humidifier maintains 60% humidity, whilst my other Hydrometer thinks its 15% lower. Who knows what my actual humidity is, all I know is that it can drop as low as 25% in the winter and be over 60% in the summer.

Incidentally the problems with our piano only started occurring as autumn set in and possibly when the humidity dropped (as we hadn't put the heating on.) It was fine for the first 3 months (during summer)!

Mini_mo,

I've sent you a message!

John