They had a head start on the oboe thread, this thread hasn't been around that long!

Have you looked at any theory papers/books for grade 5? If not, I'd recommend having a look before dismissing doing AB exams in the future.

And 'is it easier to pass TG rather than AB exams'? Scaramouche has pretty much nailed the answer to that question for you!

You don't have to do theory for AB grade 6 and above - you can also do grade 5 Jazz or Practical musicianship

that is very true.

It'd be nice if the AB at some stage do grade 6-8 jazz clari like TG have started...

My rhythm is so bad and I can't do proper syncopation, so I can't do jazz to save my life. hehe

Scaramouche - I am interested in why your answer is so definitive to the TG vs ABRSM question. Obviously the grades are at the same level in the National Qualifications Framework and in terms of UCAS university points, but I wondered if you had had any relevant experience from the new TG exams. The clarinet and sax syllabuses look a bit more approachable to me now they've dropped all the diminshed scales and so forth....

I was being a bit tongue in cheek as one can get rather tired of hearing 'such a such an exam or exam board' are easier, especially on here. I haven't entered anyone yet for TG as the opportunity has not arisen. I don't want to enter candidates just for the sake of entering them. Are you saying that just because some scales have been taken off that the whole marking scheme is easier and that less scales will effect the marking of pieces and other areas?

Hi Scaramouche. No, not really. I was just thinking, previously, the scales for Guildhall Cl and Sax syllabuses were quite a challenge and might have put people off - I dont know about how they were marked and indeed they might not have been an actual barrier in terms of marking standards - but I think they made the syllabus look a bit daunting. Now, it looks more approachable on the scale front (and the orchestral extracts as alternative for those who find memorising scales a challenge are a real bonus) - so I wonder if TG are attracting more entrants.

Cheers
Twiddle

Perhaps approachable is the correct word to use here. I'm not going to add to the debate as I don't really have an opinion on the battle of the exam boards!

Anyway, my clarinet went to be repaired yesterday. I've had it a whole year knowing that it needs repairing but not done it until now. It will be having a repad cos they're all a bit manky! I'm so excited though!

Does anyone know what orchestral extracts are? I searched sheetmusicplusc.com but could not find a sample page. Are they a little like scales? Thanks.

Look in the Trinity Guildhall syllabus documents --- as an alternative to scales at the higher grades there is an option of playing specified orchestral extracts. TG publish them in a book, available from bookshops or direct from them. Hope this helps

Hi, thanks but I'm wondering what the orchestral extracts are like. I live in the Far East and there is no Trinity Guildhall book shops or shops selling their books. I know they are an alternative to scales but has anyone ever tried doing it instead of scales? Is it more fun? What are they exactly? A series of notes to be played and are they tuneful? Or are they what I suspect they might be? The melody part in a concerto which has been slightly simplified? If it's something like this, I might want to try the TG syllabus. Playing something tuneful instead of just pure scales is more attractive.

Hi BB,
I imagine that they are extracts from the clarinet parts of orchestral pieces, chosen to be suitable in difficulty for the grade.
A search on June Emerson's website brings up "Drucker/McGinnis: ORCHESTRAL EXTRACTS" volumes 1 - 8,
which should be plenty of examples!

Chris

Well back to square one with regard to reaching the alternative B key I've been playing with the thumbrest slightly higher for the last few weeks, and although it's a bit easier for the alt B key, my right arm from the wrist up to the elbow starts getting painful after I've been playing a while. I don't remember having this problem before I moved the thumbrest, and I don't think I'm playing any more than usual, so it's obviously causing some strain on my arm. I'm going to have to put it back to where it was and persevere with contortioning ( ) my little finger to reach the alt B key.

What I could do with doing is to just change the position of that one key... does anyone ever do this to a standard clarinet??? Is it possible???

A thought re. posture : do you stick your right elbow out skylark?

Well yes I do a bit, now you come to mention it I would say it's out by about the distance between my thumb and index finger when they're stretched apart (maybe a bit less). Should my arm be close in? Maybe with the thumbrest higher up, it's caused me to alter my arm position cos I've not normally had a problem

It just sounded like your elbow was stuck out too far, from what you said in your original post. I would definitely think about the position of your right elbow, and maybe bring it in a little.

I sometimes get the same problem as you skylark - but never when I have someone sat next to me, so I'll try keeping my elbow in Thanks!

I'll try that before I move the thumbrest again then, thanks Barry, and it sounds from what Rosemary's said as if that should work

Just another thought on posturey-type things.... in what way does a sling help, does it take the weight off your right thumb? I find mine is getting quite painful. (Maybe I am overdosing on the playing after all ) Any comments on slings anyone?

I use a sling.
My problem was more my right shoulder than the thumb. 5 minutes used to cause a lot of pain.
Now it sometimes starts to hurt towards then end of a 2 hour orchestra rehearsal (not non stop playing )
but I think that's pasrtly due to the way I sit when sharing a stand.
The only other problem I have sometimes with my right hand is that occasionally I grip too hard and that can hurt and I have to stop.

I just bought a new sling so if you want to try one out I still have the old one which you are welcome to have to give it a try.
Will bring it when I next see you.

That would be great, thanks

Orchestral extracts are extracts from orchestral works. The name's a bit of a clue... ;-)
They may contain scale/arpeggio passages, just like anything else. But other than that the only link to scales is that you can use them as an alternative in TG exams.




They're not simplified and they're not usually the solo part from a work for clarinet and orchestra. They're the clarinet part of sections of symphonies, overtures, suites, concerti, etc. and may be the melody but often aren't (or are in some places and not others). They're what you would play if you were playing the clarinet in an orchestra that was playing that section of the work concerned.

Using them as a way of getting out of doing scales is not going to help you develop as a clarinettist at all. They're useful in their own right, but you should still learn and practice scales even if you're not doing them for exams. I use orchestral extracts as a regular part of my flute practice /in addition to/ scales and arpeggios.
Even for an exam, they're not necessarily an easier option than scales. You need to be careful not to play them as if they were solos. If you were playing them "for real", you'd have to keep in step with the rest of the orchestra and not drown out other parts (especially the tune when you don't have it). So an examiner will be expecting you to keep in strict time and show awareness of how your part fits in to the overall scheme of things.

They're useful to work on if you want to play in an orchestra, they can be good fun to play and they can help you work on some technical points. Plus it's interesting to see how your instrument gets used in orchestral works. But if you're planning to get to orchestral standard, you should keep going with the scales as well.

For flute, there's a useful series of books called The Young Orchestral Flautist. They contain real orchestral extracts, but chosen according to difficulty. (Book 1 is nominally grades 1-3, Book 2 grades 4-5 and Book 3 grades 5-7, but I'd disagree with some of the relative difficulties.) They're also chosen to highlight particular technical points and give you a chance to work on them using 'real' music. They're also pretty short - just a few lines long - so they're quick to learn and easy to slot into your practice routine. I normally have four of them to work on - my teacher circles the numbers of the ones I'm doing and then ticks them when she's happy that I've mastered them. Each time I get one ticked, we replace it with a new one and start by using it as sight-reading. Sometimes I'll play through a few old ones too. Basically, I'm using them as studies.
Most books of orchestral extracts are aimed at higher level players and contain longer, more difficult sections.
I don't know of an equivalent to the YOF books for clarinet, but hopefully someone else will be able to make a suggestion. I would love to find something similar for clarinet myself, as I find them very useful for flute.

T.

Thanks Teigr,

I've been doing my scales regularly. Will try orchestral extracts if I can find them. But they're not going to be fun if they don't sound great because they belong only to an orchestral piece. That's why good tunes are better.

I have just got the horrovitz sonatina for clarinet and piano.

just wondering if there is any easier fingering to go from top a to the top f# (in the Con brio)

seems very tricky to get the f# out when played up to speed.

thanks

Which fingerings do you use for both notes at the moment Elleeee?

Could anyone tell me the range of notes that one would usually expect to find in clarinet repetoire of up to grade 8?

Silly question really...

General rule of thumb -you could get anything up to and including altissimo A.

umm currently register key top two fingers for A

and then add 3 right hand fingers to get to F#. Not even sure if that is the correct fingering for F#

ellie

Best get working on my higher registers then...I really struggle with anything past E....any suggestions? Does the reed strength make much of a difference or do you just need to strengthen your embouchure?

You do need a good reed, an overly soft reed (as a rule of thumb, strength 2 or lower I regard as soft), or a worn out/split reed isn't going to work well for altissimo.
Beyond F#, experiment with fingerings, different people/clarinets will prefer different fingerings, and you'll need a strong, yet flexible embouchure (altissimo A I play with the same fingering as altissimo E ie RK/thumb, then fingers 2,3 LH, Eb key RH, which tells you that harmonics come into play up the top of the clari).
Don't bite, and practice lots!

Thank you as always barry, great advice

...so your altissimo F# is RK/thumb, then LH 1,2; RH 1,2,3.

It's a valid fingering (although I'd add RH Eb key), but F# has a whole host of possibilities. As indeed do all altissimo notes. My fingering of choice for most altissimo F#s is RK/thumb, then LH 2, RH Eb key only. But do experiment.

My choice for F# would be as Barry described, but RH C#, not Eb. Of course it depends on the notes around it. I originally used overblown Bb with RH Eb but that was unreliable.

Thanks

will give them a try

I haven't got the music to hand and can't remember the Horovitz very well.

I'd probably go for the same fingering as Barry if the F# is fairly short/moderate volume. I find the overblown Bb the most reliable for me.

My favorite altissimo A fingering is the same as the E below it and add the right hand sliver key to pull the pitch up a little.

Don't think you have to have a really hard reed to get the highest notes - as Barry said (I'm agreeing too much here!) it can't be too soft but it is embouchure that gets you up there.

It is fairly quick at ff.

I just squeak at the moment isn't too bad.

I shall try a few ways and see which sounds best

thanks

Well it's only taken all summer, but I can finally play the E minor scale with the alternative fingering, and what's more, I can do without it sounding as if I was strangling the cat I'm having to do it with a straight little finger whereas my teacher bends it, but at least I can now play the scale relatively comfortably It remains to be seen whether I can play it OK in my next lesson though, or whether I'll be saying "well I could do it at home"....

RH B is not too bad, just a bit of a stretch. It's still the LH C that I have trouble getting.

When I do my LH C, I use the tip of my fingernail of my little finger. It seems to help but there is always the danger of slipping. I'm not fully grown yet so my fingers aren't large enough to be truly flexible.

There is no way I could do that. My main instrument is piano so my fingernails are kept short.

My nails are also kept short. I was actually demonstrating how I hit the key. I push the key with the very tip of my little finger which I'm sure is not the correct form but I can't do it the normal way because it will affect the rest of my fingers since my hands are still quite small.

I have small hands that were even smaller when I 1st took up the instrument. I was taught the LH C before the RH as I could reach it more easily.

If you are having difficulty reaching it check the angle of your left wrist to the instrument. You may be able to lower it a little to put your little finger closer to the key.

It's not that it's too far away, just I find it's in an awkward place to get to.
The main problem if I do get a direct hit on the right key is that my hand moves so that the lower LH hole is not properly covered.

This has probably already been answered somewhere already, so i apologise, but when do the ABRSM graded books for clarinet come out? Or are they available already?

Thanks

All being well, they should be out later this month PianoSecrets.

Thanks Barry

According to an email I've just received the books are out today.

They were indeed! I treated myself to the grade 1 and grade 5 clarinet books today. They look very nice publications. I'll have a play through all the pieces in both books, and will let the forum know in due course what I think of them.

Thanks for bringing them to MH for us to have a look at Barry.... look forward to hearing your comments

I've seen a couple of phrases recently to do with clarinet manufacture - one is a reference to English bore and French bore; and the other is a reference to undercut tone holes giving a better sound. Could anybody explain what undercut tone holes are, and the difference beween English and French bores (I feel sure there's a joke there for somebody )