No problem skylark. I'll post some comments (on a separate thread in this forum) soon.

I have to play B above middle C, then the b above, and back again etc. but its Forte and I can't do it without one note sounding out of tune or one not sounding as good as the other! Its slurred. Any suggestions?

Alter the notes . Is that an exercise or Forlana?

Forlana .. And I can't alter the notes as I'll be using it for my A level performance! (perhaps)

I'm horrified I knew that, I am so sad. You're not shying away from the top B are you and letting it go flat?

It is flat, but in trying to make it sharper the tone goes down the drain...

That was my initial thought too. My inclination would be to play the higher B, on its own, a few times, to get in your mind what you need to do to get a nice warm note. Then slur, really slowly between both notes, listening all the time. When you can do that, do it in context, ie the Forlana.

In the Forlana, in the offending section just after figure '4', the temptation I find with people is to make the high B quavers both a bit too loud and a bit too short. Make the section a nice warm forte, no more, make the quavers good and full. and you may find it easier to give the middle line Bs just a little extra diaphragm support, and carry that through to the higher Bs.

Best of luck!

Sorry skylark, just seen this.

To be as simple as possible, the bore of a clarinet is the shape and dimensions of the inside of the instrument. Different bores will change the sound ever so slightly. French clarinets tend to have a narrower bore (and a darker sound) than American or German clarinets.

Undercut toneholes get slightly wider on the inside (as opposed to straight toneholes, which don't).

German clarinets have a different keywork system too - so I'll ask another question - has anyone tried out an Oehler system clarinet?

Thanks Barry, that's really helpful for when I come to upgrade as I don't think I would want a darker sound.

Presumably undercut tone holes improve the sound, but I'm not sure you'd get that on an intermediate clarinet. It's something I can look out for though, thanks.

The B12 has undercut toneholes : you are far more likely to come across undercut than straight skylark.

I wouldn't get too hung up about darker/brighter tones skylark - play the clarinet, see if you like the sound, if you do, go buy!

Yes, you're right, and it's not as if it would be any great hardship trying out lots of different clarinets!

well done skyers


I'll be interested to read any and all reviews of the books!

I'm not sure, but I know my dad learnt to play on a strange one - I'll find a pic and you can see if thats it

OK Rosemary, that'd be interesting.

This is just like what Dad learnt on, apparently We were going to get it to fix up, but it got a bit too expensive for that!

That looks very much like an Albert system clari Rosemary.

Have a look here, particularly at the instrument in the top picture.

Some of the clarinettists at the jazz festivals I go to grew up with the Albert system and still use it, and they get the most amazing sound out of it!

Many of the great jazz clarinettists used the Albert system.

Your favourite, Sidney Bechet, did.

Yup, I've seen a few jazzers using the Albert system - although I asked one what it was and he said it was 'Simple System'! So I was still confused

Go back to the link I left in the post above, click on 'Home', scroll down, and all will be revealed!

These were some of the instruments used by the clarinettists at the Whitley Bay jazzfest this year...










I think they're Boehm, but I'm not sure about the metal one... from the book I've got I would say it's a "full Boehm" system as opposed to the standard Boehm, but I'm only going by the diagrams, I've really no idea!

I would if it would let me load it.. My internet connection has been patchy ever since Dad took it into his head to upgrade it!

Edit: They're all Boehm. Not too sure about the difference between standard and full boehm, if there is one!

Is it fair to say that Albert is to the simple system what Hoover is to vacuum cleaners

My book ( ) says all sorts of things, most of which are too complicated to take in without spending a fair amount of time studying it all. But a couple of things that show up in the photographs is the extra tone hole above the finger holes on the lower joint (I presume my clarinet is a standard Boehm which just has one tone hole), and the key mechanism on the lower finger position on the top joint (mine just has an open hole rather than a key mechanism). Does this make sense?

Ah yes, so I see!! I didn't notice it before.. I wonder if Barry could explain further?

Top 4 clarinets are standard Boehm instruments.

The metal clarinet is Boehm, but with the addition of an extra ring (which allows an alternative B flat to be played) and also an extra pad/tone hole (and associated 'banana' key). This is called an 'articulated G# system'. It allows you to play various trills in different ways, amongst other things.

Personally, I find a clarinet with all these extra additions both a bit awkward and a bit on the heavy side - the standard Boehm is the best compromise, in my opinion.

So thats whst an articulated G# looks like! I can only think of 1 piece where it might have been useful, and I had other problems at that time...

So, my teacher is suggesting that I buy a new clarinet instead of renting the student Yamaha I'm using right now. It's a rent-to-own, but she says that I shouldn't do that because it's really not a good instrument (It's a plastic Yamaha Advantage...) so my mum wants to buy one and not waste money continuing renting it. So my teacher said to buy a Buffet C12, but I've looked everywhere and it seems like it's nonexistent, practically? Plus, she said to buy it online because the stores around overprice by A LOT.
(I'm sad to say that even if any of you guys have suggestions of online stores or any other stores, I won't be able to go/purchase from there because I live in America!)
I looked on the website she suggested (woodwindbrasswind), and they only sell E-11s and R-13s. I just remembered to tell her this at my lesson and now she says one of her students is selling a used R-13 with a "really really good mouthpiece that isn't even made anymore" (I don't know what kind it is, I forgot to ask, sorry!) for under $1000. (About 490 pounds?)

Whew! That was a lot. Anyways...does that sound like a good deal? I emailed him to ask if he still has the clarinet... I'll probably ask next lesson what kind of mouthpiece he has.

That sounds a very good deal!! On the howarth website they go for 3 times that! Okay thats new, but even with a full overhaul if its needed you've got a brilliant deal

I've never heard of a buffet C12, but I have heard of the B12 Which is a very good student instrument, although plastic again. How long have you been playing? And whereabouts are you? I know where a few music shops are hidden over there, though you probably know better than I do!

I've never heard of a Buffet C12 either, so I did a google search for it and a link to this forum came up 3rd on the list

Someone started a thread about it a couple of years ago - Buffet C12, can anyone give me some info on it. The poster subsequently made the following post in a thread on Wooden Clarinets.




You could try asking on the www.woodwind.org bulletin board, which is an American forum One of the posts in the above thread said that the C12 was no longer sold in the UK.

I've been playing for roughly 4 months now, but because I had lots of experience in violin and piano my teacher says I'm moving quicker than the average beginning student (with no experience)...

When I did a search for the C12, I got a link to this forum too!

Sadly, I got a reply today to my email and the owner said he had already sold it.

I think I will post on woodwind.org...I'll keep you guys updated though, for this mysterious Buffet C12! I'm really excited though...my teacher hates the metal ligature that the Yamaha came with (it always slides up by itself even if I tighten it nicely), and I tried out some of her leather ligatures and it really improved the tone greatly! I also tried out some Vandoren mouthpieces and they helped a lot too. She said I should wait until her shipment of Vandoren M30s come, because she said that when her other students try that one out, they immediately want that one!

-sigh- So my search for a new clarinet continues... I think I might just go with a new mouthpiece and wait until I can get a job so I don't push the price of an expensive clarinet on my parents. It won't be too bad because the Vandoren mouthpiece made my clarinet sound SO different!

Sounds like a good plan A good mouthpiece can make all the difference!

I wouldn't know what to look for in a new mouthpiece, and buying either a new mouthpiece or a new clarinet really worries me! I once borrowed a different clarinet when mine was in for service and I couldn't get any sound at all out of it, presumably because of the different shape of the mouthpiece

I'm using a Vandoren M30 mouthpiece now with a Vandoren (strength 3) reed but I find it very tiring. Need to put in more strength to blow! My teacher does not recommend a lower reed because it becomes difficult to hit the high notes. I guess I just have to get used to it.

You shouldn't be putting any effort into blowing. Playing the clarinet doesn't involve blowing hard (or at all).
If you aren't getting any sound then it's probably your embouchure (are you managing to bite less?).
If your new teacher doesn't start by looking at that then it might be worth asking him to do so.

Agree.

In addition to sbhoa's good advice, I would recommend getting your teacher to have a look at your breathing technique too - I'm sure your new teacher will have lots of good advice, because, as sbhoa quite correctly said, playing the clarinet doesn't involve blowing hard.

I've had a good teacher...

I haven't actually tried the M30 (waiting until my teacher gets her shipment!), but I tried another model from Vandoren and it was much easier to blow! I was going to get it, but my teacher told me to wait until I tried out the M30. I'm using Rico Grand Concert 3s right now.

So I posted on the woodwind.org clarinet bb, and I got some more information about the C12!

"The C12 was only in production, approximately 1984-1992, so you're lookingat a limited production. I have one, though, and if you'd like I could goand mumble on about all the differences between it and my R13 (1993) andR13 Prestige (2006)...it is a 1984 C12."

"The C12 is only available in Bb and is the model between the E13 and theR13 - both of these being more popular than the C12."

I guess I'll worry about a new clarinet later. =)

Oh yeah, and my teacher says that everything is going nicely and I'm having no problems but the one thing I should work on is endurance. Towards the end of my 30 minute lesson, I get a bit tired and you can hear that. This is my first wind instrument so I don't have much experience towards breathing and such, but I think it'll get better!

....you must be doing very well then DuoMusician. A lot of the endurance will come with experience - the more you play, the more endurance you'll acquire. Well done you!

Thank you!

Somebody replied with lots of information about the C12! It's a bit long, but here:

"Well, if you've read the blurbs on the C12 online, then you knowapproximately where they fit into the scheme of things - supposedly rightbelow the R13, above the E13 and C13. So, it's either a high intermediate(the highest Buffet intermediate) or a low professional model. I tend to feel it is a high intermediate, but a very good one at that.

Now, I might be repetitive with info I've found on this board, so I apologize. I believe it was only a couple hundred cheaper than the R13throughout it's production, so it's very close. I have been told that itwas the "band" version of Buffet...I thought this was a bit goofy, but itdoes have a very nice, stable, solid, tone. So when it's marked"Conservatoire" model, maybe that has gotten twisted.

I should blurb in here that my 1993 R13 has a bright, maybe I should saybrilliant, ringing sound to it. It has cork pads on top, and maybe leatheron the bottom - with some gortex to eliminate clunking noises.

Now, knowing that every instrument will sound different, I can give youwhat mine sounds like. The C12 has a robust, full sound; I feel that itlacks the "ring" that both my R13 and R13 Prestige give me. The tuning isvery stable, but it tends to run a bit flat overall, even though it has a66 barrel. Well, it looks 66 in a quick comparison to my R13 Moennig 66.The high notes are good - I have to say that my Prestige is gorgeous andclear on top! But for the $, the sound is really nice. The most I can sayis that it lacks a bit of ring. I recently bought an E12 1983 for mycousin, and this instrument I would consider more mellow and a bit sweeterthan anything I have - also lacking the ringing tones I have in the R13s,but still nice. The new E12 I recently tried out was shockingly good - ithad the ring, but lacked some of the power. I would consider my C12 agreat deal for the money, and would be a fantastic clarinet in high schoolor studying in college, but probably not enough if you will be a performance major.

The keywork feels very solid and springy, not like an intermediateinstrument - but I did have about $225 done in repairs....and got somefree corks put in the top tenon. So, it is not quite as springy, but I'msure that's due to age, wear, and that I didn't have a complete overhauldone to put it in as tip top shape as my others. So, mine cost around$600-625 total, and I believe it was definitely worth it. I bought itoriginally to "save" my R13 from having to play in Park Bandoutside...although I've been using it for these sit down concerts forabout 8 summers, with zero cracks or problems. I bought the C12 as abackup....along with a Vito V40....and my Yamaha 26. So, for $300, I wouldsay it is completely worth it, even if you have to put $300 into repairs.If the WOOD is in great shape, most everything else can be repaired.Bends, pads, case. It depends where you're at in your playing - and whereyou want to go. If you're looking at E11s and C12, go for the C12! I hadtrouble with extremes in dynamics, developing musicality on it, and it wasjust not as nice a sound.

Overall, the wood grain is quite nice, but has a spot of "knots?" or um,swirlies? Very small, but I can see them if I look closely - so the woodquality probably didn't quite meet the R13 standards. It was Made inFrance, so the number should pop up the instrument's information in theBuffet website - which, now, makes me think that they are more of a lowend professional, since the Buffet site only lists those instruments Madein France, and thus above the K (D, B) models. Hmmm.

I bought mine off E***. Yup. I figured as long as there were no cracks, Icould it fixed up. They are quite tricky to find. I'm glad I got mine whenI did! So at $300 - I'd grab it!! Also, though, find out how dry it is. Youmight have quite a long break in period, or re-humidifying period beforeit's truly playable without cracking possibilities. If it's been in use,there shouldn't be as many problems.

I can't imagine anyone above 8th grade having smaller hands than I have,and I find no problems on any of the Buffet Bb/A clarinets!

Since production stopped in 1992, the only place to buy them is...to get lucky. I'd guess the best bet is an auction, other than searching Craig'slist or other used item sales. I bought mine earlier this summer, and waswaiting to buy one for my cousin, and gave up not long ago because I saw one go through E*** and the wood looked pretty rough.

OK, I've mumbled for long enough. Did I answer anything? It's a nice horn."

Thanks for that - always nice to know a bit about the less common instruments!

The only thing I find strange is that when I tried out all the Buffets I liked the E11 best, precisly because the tone was less bright

Does anyone know the answer to this question about the new clarinet syllabus....


For Grade 4, List B includes a choice of No 1 or No 3 from Ferguson's Four Short Pieces,Op.6 published by Boosey & Hawkes/MDS.

For Grade 5, List B includes No 4 from Ferguson's Four Short Pieces,Op.6 published in the ABRSM's Selected Clarinet Pieces.


So does anyone know, if you were to buy the B&H edition for G4, would you be able to use the same edition for G5, or would you have to also buy the ABRSM Selected Clarinet Pieces?

Should we ask Clara Taylor?

You can use the B&H edition.
There is sometihng in the regulations that covers this.

That's good, thanks

I'm putting my next shopping list together

Just wondered if anybody had tried any other make of reed apart from Vandoren (Classic or V12) or Rico (basic or Royal)???? And if so, what you thought of them?

I've tried quite a few including La Voz (hated), Mitchell Lurie (hated), Steurer (Eb, loved for when I needed to hit some outrageously high notes, bit too strident for blending in otherwise). I quite liked the Gonzalez reeds (regular cut didn't like the FOF cut) but found they took forever to break in then didn't last very long.

I've tried most Rico reeds, really liked the Grand Concert Evolution reeds I got as a sample at a festival, was dissappointed by the boxes I bought afterwards and never really liked any of the other Rico reeds on clarinet.

I mostly stick to Vandoren both blue box and the Rue Lepic but not V12 which don't suit me/my mouthpiece. I know that the person who made my mouthpiece plays blue box Vandorens so it makes sense that they work well with the mouthpiece.

I use the Vandoren Rue Lepic as well, with a 5RV mouthpiece Other than that I havn't tried any other makes apart from what you mentioned. My friend tried a plastic reed and he sounded like a honky tonk! Twas funny Although it had the advantage of not growing mould on it...

Vandoren blue box is my general reed of choice, though I do quite like the Reeds Australia Vintage reeds too.

Not struck on Vandoren V12s, or really anything that Rico have produced (Grand Concert Evolution included).

Have also tried an orange flavoured 'Flavoureed'. Not really struck on it...

Hi,

Why is it that I can never seem to blow my clarinet with vandoren reeds? I'm using strength 3 and I'm OK with Rico strength 3.5. But with vandoren, strength 3 is unblowable.

Thanks

Vandoren and Rico aren't the same when it comes to strength. If I recall a Rico 3.5 is near enough the same as a Vandoren 3. Don't worry if you can't play on a certain strength reed.

Buy a few different brands of reed and strengths and play about with them and see which one suits you best

And playing a stronger reed isn't necessarily better