I think it went OK notmusimum : but I was standing there thinking 'I should be playing clari, I should be playing clari...'

I've been loaned a Marsyas palisander tenor (also unkeyed) by a member of my SRP branch who is looking to sell it. She had originally bought it for 813 euros in 2003 - what would be a suitable price for it now?

On another note, can anyone suggest any pieces for recorder + viola? It's the only opportunity I have for chamber music at the moment. I've tried approaching a lutenist who attends the same Quaker meeting as me, but he didn't reply to my suggestion (via Facebook) that we play together sometime. From what I've seen of his playing, he favours improvising over reading the tadpoles, so maybe it's a non-starter.

I played my LTCL (which turned into an LGSMD, but I still can't help thinking of it as the former) using descant, treble and tenor, and here's what I did:

before setting off, I nicked my daughter's hotwater bottle and filled it with warm, not hot, water. I screwed the cap on very tight and wrapped it in a towel, and took it along to the exam with me.
On arrival, I opened my case (I have the one for as many instruments as I need to carry - it will hold three trebles, two tenors and a descant, or a bass with a tenor, treble and descant), took out the three instruments I was going to play, and stuffed them down my shirt, wincing a bit cos it was November and they were cold.
I turned the instruments in my shirt til I'd stopped wincing.
Once called for the exam, I scooped up my bag and the hotwater bottle, and walked into the exam hall with them, placing the instruments I wasn't using on my open bag, and covering them with the towelled bottle. I made sure that the cap end of the hotwater bottle was facing over the edge of the case and away from my instruments, cos I'm neurotic like that. After playing each instrument, I'd place it under the bottle and pull out the next one: there were no fuggings-up, and they all were at a good temperature to play. I did also take a moment to mop out my treble, which I played in the middle then again at the end, as it had had ten minutes' continuous playing before its rest. If you have separate cases for all your instruments, then a multiply-folded towel might do the business for you just as well, maybe laid on a couple of the cases to raise it a bit from the floor.
Piers Adams does similar, but he has a special warm bag for his instruments: he doesn't let the business of fishing out the next instrument interrupt his performances at all .
I am still trying to get round to building the perfect recorder player's performance outfit: the blokes get to wear roomy jackets with big pockets, but it's harder for me as a girlie .

Thanks, anacrusis.

I could try a hot water bottle, I suppose. I could put one under their fluffy sleeping bag case maybe?

What I'd sort-of decided on (the exam's today) was to wear a pair of trousers with lots of pockets - they have two big pockets which I can fit the two larger bits of each treble in (and the foot joint of the old one because I'm not so worried about squishing and scratching it), then little pockets further down the legs which can fit in the foot-joints. It doesn't end up being the most comfortable outfit ever and looks a bit odd but it should work, I think.

Would one of these geegaws you heat in the microwave work as well if not better than a traditional hotwater bottle?

Wouldn't they end up too hot?

(I wouldn't know, I don't have a microwave. )

.........or too cold depending on when you heated them. I was wondering about those things you buy from the £ shop that you shake to heat up. Some are sticky but others are not.

I don't own a microwave, and am unlikely to acquire one. I understand they don't always heat things very evenly, but don't go near the things if I can help it anyway.

The exam went ok and all my recorders seemed to behave themselves pretty well. The new treble started going slightly fuzzy towards the end of the Vivaldi but only slightly and I don't think it was really noticeable. It was fine for its second piece.

What I was really going to say was though was that he offered that I could do the sight reading on descant if if I wanted (I didn't and chose treble). I really wasn't expecting this as the exam is supposed to be for 'treble recorder' not recorder in general like it is for Trinity. Also, I don't remember being offered the choice at grades 6 and 7 - I couldn't have done it for grade 6 though anyway as I only had treble with me.

Are you meant to have the choice or did he make a mistake? We had a look in the syllabus after the exam and it didn't specify treble recorder, but then I don't expect the piano syllabus specifically mentions piano in the sight-reading bit either.

What have been other people's experiences with this?

Well done

I don't recall being offered a choice of instrument for sight reading at grade 8 or grade 7 either.

Well done, and I'm glad it has gone well: I wasn't asked descant or treble for grade 8, but in any case the examiner had made a mistake and put something in front of me which wasn't a grade 8 bit of sightreading at all, only just noticing before I started to read it through in my head . A pity, as it had looked really easy... in any case you were offered a choice rather than having one imposed on you: but at the higher levels, one does play recorders, not the recorder, and you would normally expect to be able to sightread on either, even if it's not tested. I'm pretty sure my grade 8 certificate says "recorders", plural.... *goes to look* ...yup, it does .

On my other certificates (and on the syllabus), it's down as treble recorder and the steward checked that I was doing treble not descant when she was asking what pieces - she'd obviously forgotten you can't do 8 on descant.

Good to hear your exam went well, Sarah.

Perhaps the examiner noticed that you'd done one of your pieces on descant and thought he would mention that it's OK to do the sightreading on either descant or treble. Presumably as sightreading skills are more to do with getting the right rhythms and the feel of the piece he wasn't worried which of your instruments you used.

Hope the result is all you wish!

Well done Sarah : best of luck for the result!

Glad it went well, Sarah. What I don't understand is where the examiner would have found a Grade 8 descant sight reading piece for you to play. The specimen tests are certainly all for treble, and Grade 8 is definitely a treble recorder exam, with the option to use another size of recorder for one piece only.

That's an interesting point actually. It would have been interesting to see him try and find one. I was about to say that I should have asked for the descant one just to see if I actually could have it, but then I just realised that I'd given my descant to my piano teacher to take out with her as I didn't need it any more, so couldn't have done it anyway.

Random question:

I'm thinking about taking a couple of recorders to Stalybridge on Saturday, but space is a bit of an issue as you are only allowed to take 3 bags/items onto the train and Transpennine can sometimes be a bit strict with this (the trains are small, so they actually see everyone who gets on and off - I've witnessed occasions when people have been charged extra for having too many bags).

I'm taking my flute and picc in my flute gig bag and can fit my descant + it's soft case in the main section of this. I'd also like to take my treble but it's case is nearly as big as my flute case. I can't work out how to fit this into my other bag with my clarinet, music and lunch (my violin may be carried on as my 3rd item - I haven't decided yet whether I'm taking it or not). I'm probably going to leave both my sopranino and tenor at home, because I don't think the sopranino will be wanted and the tenor is a bit big and heavy.

Do you think my treble would be okay if I put each section into a clean sock and then put these (without the case) into the back pocket of my flute gig bag? The pocket is padded a bit, but obviously doesn't offer the same protection as the hard recorder case, and would be against my back when I'm carrying the gig bag. I don't want to damage it...

I took seven recorders on a course to Lyme Regis earlier this year: not one of them in its case .

The sopranino (packed under protest, I hate the things) was wrapped in a silk scarf and stowed inside the barrel of my bass, and the rest of them were carefully rolled in a large towel, the tenors in two pieces each, the bass in its constituent parts (it's crook-blown, not a knick instrument) and stowed vertically in my rucksack. I also fitted clothes for a week and my wash-bag in there: it's not a huge camping thing, just the sort of bag kids use for school these days. I'd not pack instruments with major keywork in this way, but the beauty of recorders is that they are relatively robust - the only thing to be absolutely sure of is that nothing can wedge its way into the window to damage the fipple. Put it this way, my £650 treble (my most precious one) survived this beautifully, as did all the rest. Once at Lyme on the course, I just assembled all of them and stowed them upright in the rucksack - the bass in two bits - to carry them round, and the towel draped over the top to protect them in transit.

If you've got some of those sports socks with a towelling surface inside, use those, cos they also give a bit more padding. Try it all out well in advance of travelling, and see what seems to work best for you.

How do I tell when my ebony recorder needs oiling?

It's just struck me that it's unlikely to go pale/greyish inside like paler woods do and I can't imagine it would go rough on the inside either which is the only other sign of needing to be oiled that I can think of. So, how do you tell?

Well, I've finally confirmed to my favourite Mollenhauer dealer that I want one of the new Canta Knick Great Bass instruments, and asked her to order it.

I'm a bit excited by the whole idea

It's not so much the inside which goes pale, as the cut surface of the end of the middle section - so the simple test is a comparison - is it paler than the inside surface? Yes, boxwood will go very pale, maple pretty much white, but even ebony will be paler at the end grain than the side grain.

Ok, thanks. It's obviously fine for the moment then.

Brilliant news - how long will you have to wait for it & will you bring it to one of my lessons for a demo once it arrives please?

I've taken it upon myself to rehearse a Telemann concerto for treble with some top F#s. Still undecided whether I'm better off sitting or standing to play them. Also, can anyone remind me of the alternative fingering for top F# that only works when slurring down from G?

Thanks in advance!

A lot of this depends on height, ability to balance, and general co-ordination: for LTCL, I had to do a couple of F#s, one of them the second note of a descending scale of semiquavers, and had marked my music with when to start balancing on one leg in order to get them to work: it took a lot of practice to make them reliable though. My recorder teacher prefers playing them sitting down: I really don't like sitting to play at all, and only do so at recorder orchestra.

I only know a fingering which works slurred from top E: it involves taking fingers 4 and 5 off the E fingering and blowing like stink - it cropped up in Bach's 4th Brandenburg concerto, and was far harder to get to sound right.
Which Telemann concerto is it you're learning?

I've now been told that it'll be coming after a three week wait. How will I wait three weeks.....

That's not long : once Chester's done and dusted, you'll be thinking it's only a week and a bit away...

oooh, is that one going to be in cherry wood too?

*wants a bass badly, nearly as badly as the voice flute she also wants *

No, Anacrusis, the Great Bass will be in pearwood rather than cherry.

Ah, yes, makes sense, the very big instruments are more often in pear. It will make a lovely noise...soft and, well, great bass recordery...

C-major, four movements (Allegretto - Allegro - Andante - Tempo di minuet) in the Moeck edition nr. 1065.

Ooh, that's a lovely one - having looked at it, though, I suspect I'd be knee-stopping those, I'm afraid. It's not as horrendous to do as I'd feared - haven't learned that one properly, but the Bach flute sonata I was talking about had its top F# hidden in a run in a similar way so I'm fairly sure I'd use the same technique again.

At the SRO on Sunday, there was a photographer, taking lots of lovely pics of recorders, and rather less photogenic but very characterful photos of us - I've since had the comment that the one of me playing a Paetzold contrabass looks like I'm trying to play the central heating system .

A comment from the Aberdeen concert was the Paetzold contra I was playing looked more like a periscope. Intriguing!

Sorry I missed it on Sunday.

I've always thought the Paetzolds look like the geegaws dentists stick in your ear to x-ray your teeth.

It's arrived

It's beautiful

I've played it today and can't play it any more until tomorrow

That's a shame. But with all that time to spare, you could take a picture of it

Hello everyone, and particularly the SRO peeps. I made it to a few SRO practices but I couldn't manage the journey and then all the playing and journey home again - I'm not a well bunny. Edinburgh SRP is at a bad time for me with kids and all, but if anyone fancies making a little ensemble I can join you on any size, although I don't read bass clef as well as I play the others I am sure I can get better. My 'home' instrument is definitely alto. Drop me a PM if you fancy a blast, and keep me posted of any playdays and such coming up!

Quick edit to let you know things I have. I am happy to have a go at anything you have music for. What I own myself is a few single part of Corelli trio sonatas - some require own transposition for recorder! - Sabre Dance I believe is for SATB but possibly SSAT, my daughter is asleep on the music, Pachelbel for SSSB, Brandenburg 4 if you are happy to imagine the tuttis and violin, or indeed provide a violinist, and a few random things, Tambourin (Bonsor) and a load of string and flute music that can be adjusted - I am happy to read alto clef if you want to play some of my violin and viola duets. Whatever combo you fancy, I can play violin, viola flute and baroque flute also.

Does anyone know where I can get the violin parts for the vivaldi concerto on the grade 8 syllabus (RV 108 in A minor)? The version I have only has the piano reduction and I'm guessing this hasn't got all the proper notes that would normally be for the violins. (Also, I have a confused violinist who doesn't like picking notes out of chords.)

I wonder (and by no means is this anything like a certainty) if this is available as a free score to download somewhere? Might be worth a quick google.

Random titbit - Piers Adams and few other recorder players appear on the soundtrack to Fantastic Mr. Fox. Was sat watching the film and heard the occasional sound of a recorder and who's name should appear in the end credits.

As for the film, I really enjoyed it, but I've never read the book and like Wes Anderson's films apart from The Darjeeling Limited which bored me silly...

*still reeling*

Yesterday I was lucky enough to have got a chunk of time (or rather, two chunks) for tuition with Philip
Thorby, with YAP as my co-soloist - we played a Telemann sonata with a concertante harpsichord and recorder parts: my goodness, what an intense session......he's got a phenomenal mind* as well has superb musicianship, and though I wasl well aware that I was only able to provide a fraction of what he was asking me to do, he managed to get us to play in a much more communicative manner. The difference between playing for pleasure at home, and producing the same in a way which would perhaps persuade an audience to stay and listen .

YAP and AP had to tell me to put the music away last night - I'd have been going round in ever-diminishing circles, trying to hold on to everything that had been said. I'm still trying to work out how we managed to get aTelemann siciliano to sound like a Spanish dance, and then to find a rhumba in another of the movements....and wondering if I can manage to replicate that when I go back to it.

*continues listening to said music buzzing round in her head, trying to remember not to tongue the second phrase so aggressively*

*Philip Thorby that is. Though YAP does too.

Glad it went so well. I remember him finding a jazz riff in The Leaves be Greene one year at the Easter course.

Hehe - it doesn't surprise me - and did he perform it? He was certainly tapping out some very flamenco-ey sounding rhythms when we were going all Spanish: I thought he was going to fall backwards off the stage .

Any tips on how long to leave trying to play the same piece again to let the dust settle, without losing completely what was said and done? I'm still all fuddle-headed, a whole day later .

The new Red Priest CD arrived at home yesterday...listened to it on the way in this morning, will be humming Toccata and Fugue all day I think. Look forward to listening to the other half of it on the way home.


Completely different observation...
If you go to any cycling forum, it won't be long until you come across someone saying "n+1". This is a shorthand to the well know phenomenon in cycling circles:
q. How many bicycles should I own?
a. n+1, where n is the number of bicycles you currently own.

So someone might be musing about how easy (or not) it will be to take their road-end hybrid bike out on a moutain bike trail, and someone will inevitably post the answer "n+1", i.e. you clearly obviously need a new bicycle for this


I have decided that the proper number of recorders to own is n+1...

Maizie, that is a marvellously accurate calculation. Thank you for that

Yep, agree absolutely.

Katyjay and I did some blind testing this week. It was interesting how the recorder which was too edgy for Baroque when close up (my olivewood Denner treble) was fine from further away or on a recording. I now can't decide whether I need a softer or harder treble to complement it, so it might be n+2.

In my case, it's n+1.5 though. Having just got a bass, I next need a voice flute with interchangeable middle sections so I can play at a'=415Hz and 440Hz...

The sound experiments with the various trebles are most interesting: apparently the material of a pipe is said not to make any difference to the sound, according to some research done a while back, but I'm afraid I disagree. I certainly seem to be able to tell plastic from wood...

But that may be because the plastic recorders are of lower quality anyway, and the difference is more pronounced on the larger instruments. It was surprisingly difficult to tell my new Marsyas descant and the Yamaha plastic one apart.

Ooh, okay - I was comparing a Yamaha treble with various wooden ones. It was however also fascinating listening (albeit in a rather noisy space) to KJ playing snatches of the same melody on the same models made in different woods - there were at times very noticeable differences in sound quality, and far more obviously so than the differences in the basses I was trying out - where there were only two woods to be compared .

How are your new purchases going, andante-in-c and katyjay? The bass is doing very well at being played in - it'll cope with rather longer than my smaller instruments did, and is continuing to make glorious noises. I can't yet sustain long quick passages for any more than a couple of bars or so, so the prelude to Bach's first cello suite sounds a bit fragmented, but the tone of the thing is fabby - and van Eyck's "Boffons" is, quite literally, a hoot .