I am at a bit of a loss, and this is a bit of a rant thread too so bear with me. I've been wondering lately if a career in music, and doing music as my degree was actually a good choice. I don't feel particularly enthusiastic about my degree or about music at all. I haven't wanted to play instruments in ages. Last time I played clarinet was 3 months ago, sax, a good few weeks ago, piano - I try most days but last about 5 minutes, flute and recorder I just mess about with every so often. A couple of years ago I couldn't wait to get home and play and I would play for hours. My parents would moan they never saw me, only ever heard me playing music. A few years have passed, I'm starting my last year at university and to be honest I'm not looking forward to going back. I don't really want to be there, I feel completely unmusical and I have no desire or motivation or whatever to play anything, research anything, study anything, or do anything remotely musical. At first I perhaps thought this is just a momentary blip and it'll pass, but to be honest I've felt like this strongly since last September. What on earth is wrong with me? I enjoy my teaching, but the pupils in school drive me insane. They either work hard but have little talent, or have a bit more talent and do ###### all so it's stressful - I know that's life but I just thought I'd add it in. A few friends have noticed it, and have said that all I used to talk about was music and how much I loved it, and frankly I was obsessed, whereas now I have completely changed and can't be bothered with it.

If anyone can make any sense of that, any advice would be received greatfully, as I have no idea what to do or where I am going at all anymore...



Edit - I half wonder if I rushed into deciding to do music at uni because it was the only thing I was remotely ok at.

Perhaps you just need a good holiday - if that's possible - just to get everything back in perspective. I went through a bad patch about 4 years ago when I made the mistake of trying for a PGCE as well as my private teaching. Yes - sometimes difficult decisions have to be made if you are very stressed and something has to give. However, I am very glad and relieved that I stuck with the piano teaching as everything is now more or less back on track - as if nothing unusual ever happened. I feel stronger though and more confident than before.

There are learning curves every day but we only notice the very steep ones - keep going and you'll get to the top and enjoy the view again.

All the best

You should talk to your tutors about this Scaramouche. They will have lots of wise words for you. You are so near to gaining your degree that it would be a shame not to get to the end of the course. You are taking on a lot in following a full time course and taking on a teaching job too, and the travelling and work preparation involved must be enormous. Perhaps it has not left you with much energy for practice or even for time out with friends.
Perhaps you have been unfortunate in your school too. Some schools are better to teach in than others and their pupils have a better attitude to work. There is the option of going into private practice of course when you will have the chance to pick and choose your pupils.
If you do decide that music is really not for you will be able to put it on a back burner for a time and keep it as a wonderful hobby. No learning is ever wasted and even if you decide on a career or course change your studies will have taught you many things other than music.
Ask yourself if you would miss your music studies and playing if you had to give it al up tomorrow though. A positive or even a don't know reply will answer some questions for you.
Do go to see your tutors though. They will be able to offer far more advice and support than we can.

By the time I finished my music degree (many years ago now) I was totally fed up with classical music, listening to it, analysing it, practising it. I did non-musical jobs for many years and than in my mid 30s regained my enthusiasm and started teaching. I'm now very glad I completed my degree.

It does sound as though you might have reached a saturation point as I did. I imagine teaching on top of studying must be hard work, but you are 2 thirds of the way through your degree and if you hang on in the feelings may pass and you will have a degree which hopefully will open up career opportunities either in or out of music. If you don't use the music training immediately you might want to do it later.

This is only my experience, and I am not trying to tell you what to do - at the end of the day only you can decide what is right for you. I think the above suggestion to try and take some time out is a good one. Getting a pen and paper, listing your options together with the pros and cons of each can also be helpful in my experience.

All the best

Liz

I know a lot of students feel that way at some point in their studies. What might help to is making up a backup plan for yourself. Ask yourself what kind of job or degree you would like to do if you decide music isn’t what you really want. Sometime just having a backup plan can release some of the stress, and can help you enjoy you studies again. I hope this is of any help.

Scaramouche, you have made an awful lot of posts since March. Forums are no substitute for real friends you can spend time with.

Are you a bit depressed? Just wondered, as I have had two periods of clinical depression in my life, and when you are really low, everything loses its point and things which once meant a lot seem dry as dust.

Maybe what you need is to switch off to music for a month and get out with some friends or family members to do something quite different for a change. Once you feel good about yourself again, you will be better able to decide whether you made the right choice of career.

Sound advice Berkshire Mum. Whether or not you are clinically depressed or just feeling a bit fed-up, rushing into decisions to walk out of uni when you've one final year to go, without talking this through with your parents, tutors etc doesn't seem sensible. I'd want to strong suggest a good break this vacation and go back in the autumn. Take it as gently as you can and get your degree. Then you take stock again on where you're at.

Having "off" times is part of life - nobody can live at a high all the time. We have to work through those darker, more difficult times and generally, in my experience at least, better times do start to appear again.

Sounds like you're tired, maybe a bit run down and just fed up. Get out and about, plenty of activity this hols and see where that leads but please don't chuck in all you've worked for just because, for a while, you've gone off music.

For what it's worth, I've been teaching over 30 years but I still love the summer hols when I get a long break to do something else. Don't get me wrong, I really value my teaching and like my pupils to bits (in that respect I'm very lucky) but sometimes I need a change when I can just put down the music I love profoundly and live by and do something different. I always return more encouraged and ready for the start of a new academic year in September.

Let us know how you get on won't you?

Thank-you for the replies. I have been on holiday, and am going again in a few days, the latter is just as likely to be as stressful as the first though. I do spend time with friends, but at uni not really at home; there are reasons, of which I am not about to elaborate on openly on a public forum, same goes for my parents. I finished uni for the year months ago, surely I should have relaxed by now? All I want is some darn direction.

My feelings would be that you are possibly to involved in musical things. Perhaps getting a small part time job out with music would help? Or even doing the odd bit of volunteering for an non musical organisation? I think if you took a step back from the situation you would be able to think more clearly and would take your mind off it all. I think we all have doubts about weather we're doing the right things in life but you just have to take a step back from it all and be realistic about it! Hope everything works out for you!xxx

That reads quite patronisingly if I may say so. 7 posts a day is hardly a massive average.. Would you share such sentiments with some of our members with over twenty thousand posts?

scaramouche I can add very little to the wise advice of other posters except to say that if you possibly can hang on in there, do so. Over the years I’ve had similar periods of frustration and non-motivation and it is grim while it lasts but there will be light at the end of the tunnel. I also did university studies while teaching and it is physically and mentally draining. It’s normal to feel whacked out by it all. Do talk to your tutors if you can. Whatever decisions you take, don’t feel guilty about any of them. It’s your life. Will be thinking of you.

Hi Scaramouche, don't let yourself get pushed into any career path if you feel it's not right for you at the moment. I know when I was in my final year at poly many moons ago I felt more-or-less pushed into a career of school teaching (nothing wrong with that in principle, don't want to alienate any school teachers) but after a term of the PCGE I knew it was so not for me, and then followed a varied career path in the computer and motorcycle industries for the next 15 years or so, which was really great fun. However I have now come back to what I know and love, but it's for all the right reasons, not just because there appear to be few alternatives for me. You have to do what you want to do, and somehow things will come together in some way, but it may not be exactly in the way you planned! Good luck, and try not to stress too much

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One good thing, Scaramouche, is that you're able to articulate what you're feeling and get it out in the open. There'd be nothing worse than bottling these feelings up and denying you were feeling them...and you know what they say about a problem aired.

I agree with what everybody else has said - you're nearly at the end of your degree so it's probably best not to give up now. It sounds as if you've had a bit of an overdose of music - it's a bit like when you say the same word over and over again and it begins to look all funny and loses its meaning. But you've loved music before and you'll definitely love it again. Perhaps you need a complete break from it for a while and right now you've got the opportunity. I don't think the weather's helping much right now, frankly - we're probably all a bit down because we've all been looking forward to summer and now it's here and it's all grey and rainy - it certainly doesn't help.

Why not bury yourself in some really good books for a while - nothing to do with music, mind! Or picture what you'd like to be doing right now more than anything else, and then find a way to do it? Or rent all the movies you've never seen, or go on days out to places you've never been before? Start learning to drive if you don't already? Or if you can afford it go to Paris for a long weekend with a friend or two - you can get some excellent deals with hotel thrown in. Nothing like a weekend in Paris for restoring the enthusiasm for life...

I do think sometimes that analysing music can kill off the love for it (temporarily) if you do too much of. I certainly didn't want to hear Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra after deconstructing it for Music A-Level many years ago...

But if this feeling hasn't lifted after a few weeks of a complete rest from music, then yes do talk to someone at uni - it could certainly help to get it all in perspective, and/or they could come up with well-tried and tested suggestions and solutions. Good luck, and thinking of you.

Long time since I've posted on here and I don't care if i'm not welcome.

As you know I'm going through a lot of stuff right now, but I've fealt as you have fealt since my second year and with this added to my other problems i messed a year up.

Im deferring my final year retake i think now because I need to find me and what I want - wether in Cardiff, Spain or half way up a mountain... It'll leave me with no friends at uni and a very lonely year to go back too but if your defering or intercalating as it should be known, you can always go back at xmas.

Nothing is as bad as it seems (my situation does not warrant you reusing my quotes), and you just need to find what you once loved about music. Theres a lot more out there than just music, you could dabble in another area for a while - but in response to someones post, if you end up as a beep beep lady in tesco i will actually slap you

Luv moi!

I think the point I got from that comment is that there was a sudden increase in posts?? I think sometimes the written word can seem a bit patronising/insulting/high handed. I don't think it reflects on those who consistently make dozens of posts .... That's what I think anyway!

Fusian, try to be positive. Music will always be there - I went back to it at the age of 28, and have phases of music being everything to me, and then music just being a part of my life (not always a very big part). Maybe that's what will be best for you.

Life is for living, and the only person who can do it is you. If you're young, free and single, the world is your oyster. Go for it.

I totally agree here. When I listen to music, sometimes I start analysing it or I think 'I'd like to play that' and I start thinking about getting hold of the score! I sometimes find it hard to just sit back and enjoy the music as it is hard to just listen and not start to 'understand' it.

It sounds like you need some kind of break but I would suggest, like the others, that you try and complete the degree first. In the mean time do non-musial activities, as people have also said. I think you just need to show yourself how much music means to you by taking a step back and realising what you can do (if that makes sense )! Good luck!

Interesting replies, but I fail to see how I can totally escape something that is my life. If I'm not playing in a concert, I'm teaching, or sorting out stuff for next year at uni or having a lesson or whatever. I can't go anywhere without thinking about it and stressing myself out over it.

What about Iona's suggestion of seeing if you can defer your last year?

Maybe that is part of the answer. If it was not your life, I am quite sure you would not do it (I know enough former music students who just stopped, even only a couple of months before their graduations). The important part of your statement is "stressing myself out over it", and this is probably where you need help. Maybe even professional counselling. I know this is still a taboo and big No-No to talk about ...

There is no easy answer to your problem, but I would seriously consider getting professional help. Again, there is nothing embarrassing about it. Musicians are a group that suffers from burnout like people in any other profession. Maybe even more often, because it is a mentally very exhausting job, and it is very closely linked to your emotional side, which sometimes literally makes things go overboard. But that's natural, and I am quite sure that most musicians have a period in life when they feel like you feel now.
The most important thing is that you find out what you really want (or the other way round: Start with what you don't want, this is sometimes an easier approach). But I would strongly recommend to get counselling on that matter, because you might, at some later point, regret decisions you made just because of a momentary state of mind.

Do you have access to any BAPAM clinics or practitioners? http://www.bapam.org.uk/

What comes first, the stress or the disillusion?

If it is the stress - perhaps you are continually taking on things that are just a little bit too hard. I find that when praticing, I like to play things that are too hard so that I can struggle a bit and keep improving. But in concerts (I play principal cornet with a brass band, amongst other things - which means lots of solos) - I like to play things that are too easy. That means, I keep the stress down and it's a lot of fun. The audience still love it. Even if I get horribly nervous, which does happen sometimes, I still have enough in the bag to carry it off and sound good.

So every concert is a lift, in a way. If every concert was a trial which goes wrong, I would soon yearn for a break. If that is your problem (it's a wild guess though; maybe it isn't), try playing some easy stuff.

I think talking to your tutors has got to be the answer. A student I know has been going through something similar - she was on the verge of dropping out altogether because her music degree was stressing her out so much. In her case it was the constant orchestra practice and ensemble work that was getting to her - it was all just too much and she was beginning to hate it. Since then she's managed to talk to her tutors and drop large chunks of the course, by switching to mainly composition modules and other stuff, but with virtually no performance but with the option of doing some more performance in her third year (I think).

She's now much happier and looking forward to going back, whereas a few weeks ago she was telling me she wouldn't care if she never saw the place again. She's now going to play only the music she wants to play - but outside university altogether, and just get her head down and complete an altered degree that will still be a BA in music at the end of the day.

Talking to the tutors and seeing what they can do to change things around for you has got to be a good way forward. After all, they really do want you to enjoy the course!

I know it's the hols, so it depends on if you are back home or in your uni...but uni counselling services usually keep running outside of term time. They can be very helpful people to talk to, either as a one off or a more regular thing. They will probably be aware of all the viable options that your uni has, such as deferrment, rearrangement of courses/modules, etc.

Maybe music should just be a hobby for you? There might be something else that you are "meant" to do with your life, but don't beat yourself up about it, how should you know at 17 when choosing uni courses what you want to do with the rest of your life? I'm in my 30s and have only just realised what I want to do!

I'd follow the advice of Violina and talk to your tutors. During my 2nd year at college I had some 'heavy' stuff going on personally and the 1/2 way point 'presentation' of my dissertation was just about finishing me off. On the verge of walking out I chatted to my tutor, and was able to continue without the presentation as they knew my work had always been of a high standard. It's really important that tutors know what is going on - they have probably heard most things before!

As you are so close to finishing the degree it would be a real shame to pull out now. Is it absolutely necessary that you teach next year as well, or could you cut that right back? I have yet to meet a musician who hasn't gone through some sort of emotional turmoil - I mainly teach now after having done a lot of performing in the past and each concert I do is 'going to be my last' as I am finding that the nerves are getting worse as I get older. But when I am up there I enjoy it (when the voices stay away!) - the kids think my mood swings beforehand are hilarious. You are not alone Scaramouche - you may ultimately decide to keep music as a hobby, but try and get the degree and DO TALK to those around you.

I must admit my gut reaction also is to ask if there is any way you could let the teaching go? That is a massive amount of pressure on you to do that as well as your final year...
I would also look at the options you have for deferring your final year, though be aware that if you defer you may struggle to find the momentum to get back into it again.
I guess possibly the best solution is just to knuckle down and get on with it for one more year, so you have your degree behind you, whatever else you may decide to do then - but only you know if you can bear to go through with that or not.

I am at a bit of a loss

Just use a map

If only it were that simple! If we could see ourselves in ten, twenty or thirty years from now we might know if we made the right choice or not but, alas, we can't. So ask yourself where you would like to be in the future? Would you love a career in music of one sort or another or would you like to follow a different part entirely? You are very young and have plenty of time for a career or a course change. Do talk to tutors first though. It will not be a dreadful thing to cancel a few of your commitments either until you feel less stressed. No one will feel let down for long and you need to put yourself first.

I think maybe the teaching is adding on unnecessary stress but I am continuing with it next year. In a way I feel I can't say no to such a good opportunity given to me by my old teachers and I do need the money. Whilst it has driven me insane, apart from making me feel awful it hasn't, I don't think, really affected my university marks which is the main thing I suppose? Perhaps music should just remain a hobby but I have no idea what else I would do with myself. I might talk to my tutors, not sure, don't think they'd understand, especially as I was told that they have people that they are concerned about academically and I'm not one of them, so they'll think I am being stupid.

Just to say that, from my own experience, tutors aren't only concerned about their students academically, they are also interested in their mental state and how they are coping with their studies.

I think talking to the tutors is a good idea. The experienced ones have probably seen similar situations a hundred times, and they may have some useful advice for you.

If it's the teaching that is the problem, maybe you need to read up on teaching methods, or ask your tutors about that at the same time.

Have you spoken to any experienced teachers about that part of it... as a teacher you learn to find ways that make things easier for yourself. You have to! I have taught (not music) and you need to discover the short cuts to take some pressure off.

I just think that you would be doing yourself a favour if you can manage to finish your degree. As Carol*p says, you might find it difficult to regain the momentum if you stop now.
I have had a couple of years now where things have seemed to be off-track for me (not to do with degrees or anything like that), and I know there may not be a simple solution, but finding someone you can talk to could be a big step forward (as other people have suggested)

I think so too Scaramouche . They are bound to be concerned with students who have anxieties, whether those anxieties are academic or otherwise - they are still things that could get in the way of success. So yes I think they will listen and understand.

You really must let your tutors know how your feeling, of course they will be concerned, they don't just worry about the ones that have problem academically! You may find that just unloading all those bottled up feelings helps without them giving an advice. I'm sure you'll have someone whose your personal tutor, their probably the best person to speak to about it all. xxx

Scaramouche, if it's any consolation, you're not alone.

I went through something similar towards the end of my second year - a real case of "why am I doing this? I'm bored of it all". I ended up applying for loads of different non-music jobs (there's absolutely nothing that says you have to earn a living doing music if you have a music degree), but really making sure I stressed the parts of a music course that had parallels in the business world (putting in effort to get things done, working as part of a team, the importance of communication, ability to work independently, research skills). I didn't really know what I wanted to do; the one thing I did know was that I didn't want to be a classroom music teacher.

Music remained very much on the back-burner for about a decade after I graduated.

I loved my music degree - all 3 years of it BUT (and it's a huge BUT!!!! ) I wasn't teaching at the same time...........and much as that's giving you an income, it might well be giving you too much stress because you're doing that plus your music degree......and teaching can in itself be stressful, and a degree can be stressful (lots of deadlines etc.) so that's double stress, which I know I wouldn't have wanted when I was at university........

How much of carrying on with the teaching is because you don't want to let your old teachers down?

I can really understand that sentiment, but I'm sure that your teachers gave you that opportunity because they want you to do well and to support your aspirations. I'm sure that if you explained you were finding the workload a little too much to cope with for your final year they would understand completely and support your decision to let the teaching go.

So many replies, I can't reply to them all individually but thank-you and I've taken everything on board. I think I'll go back to uni in September and just get on with my final year. You never know, I might have some motivation back by then and I guess it's not that long to deal with it. Over the next month I'm just going to think about the teaching, I'll carry on with it, but I'm going to look more closely at what I am doing and try to work it to make it a little less stressful. Whilst I was thinking of the PGCE at RNCM and Manchester Met after graduating, I think a gap year is probably in order really and perhaps go abroad for a month or two to relax. We'll see .

awwwwwwww sad to hear your not so happy right now I understand the stress your under, being at Uni myself. Uni results got sent out mid-week @ Bournemouth Uni! A few of my friends have recieved their results today, but I'm still waiting on mine! It will land on my doorstep proberly on Monday morning!
Maybe you need a new challange with your music, such as looking at session work professionaly? + HAVING ONE LOOOOOONG HOLIDAY I'm DEFINATELY having one when I finish lol!

Do you need to do a third year, to do a PGCE? x x

I did one year at a university studying music and decided it was not the right path for me. I do love music but I realized that studying it there was making me like it less. I didn't want to practice and playing piano became a chore, something I dreaded. Besides all that, I could see that my career goals would be better served with a non-music degree. Since I'd only done one year with music I decided to change my course of study and I'm really happy with my decision. I still plan on continuing music, taking lessons and maybe doing a diploma exam. Since you only have one year left it seems that the best option for you is to stick it out one more year. My advice is to take a break from it all until you go back and perhaps after you graduate you might pursue a career outside of music for a while. Music should be something you enjoy. With me, when I stopped enjoying piano it kind of hurt, it didn't feel right. I feel much better after taking a break and I'm sure you will find that you eventually re-gain your interest and excitement in music.

I do, because you can't do a PGCE without having a degree really.

Sounds like a good idea, will some time to enjoy life

I'm back at square one this morning, as I feel utterly terrible. I'm going away later for 2 weeks, I don't want to go which isn't helping but oh well .

Hope it's better than you think

Scaramouche, I really hope you enjoy your time away and that it helps to get things in a better perspective for you. There's got to be some light at the end of the tunnel...

Yes, the hint is in the "PG" bit of the acronym

I think talk to them anyway, hon, but the very fact that they don't see any reason to worry about you academically is a good thing - they know you're capable of doing it even if you may not feel that way. Talk to them, because besides anything else, if you're stressed and worried and stuff, they need to know in order to be help to help if they can.


Not with music, but I felt the same about Russian at the end of my second year.


Yeah, good idea.


*hugs*

Nat... you are a talented musician... you've taken on an awful lot this year and you ask a lot of yourself... I'm not surprised you're feeling buried in it all. Please believe me, though, when I say that those of us who've heard you play, accompany, etc believe that you are a real musician, and a good one at that

& you're not crazy for having "ughhhhhhhhhhhhhh" moments with music... it's hard to stay in love with a subject when it's your work as well as your play... we all have moments where we want to throw the sax/flute/violin/whatever at the wall! Don't go thinking you've lost your ability or your love for music when you're feeling tired, stressed, and in the middle of a tough degree. Like many have said, it's a pretty normal reaction, but it doesn't mean you'll always feel that way.

Hope the holiday is better than you expect and that you have a chance to catch up with yourself and relax. It was great to finally meet you yesterday look after yourself... thinking of you xxx

I read your first and now this post and what occurs to me is that this sounds like exhaustion
induced depression. The world can seem quite black and meaningless and it can feel like you
are drowning in the void or in extreme cases, frozen.

This happens to students especially when they don't eat and sleep properly,
don't manage their time, try to do too much, are operating at the edge of their ability and fighting
on too many fronts such as working at the same time as studying. Scaramouche, you will know
yourself which of this list applies to you.

First of all, it can take several months to a year to recover so the fact the uni year ended a while ago
doesn't mean you are not still recovering.

But take heart. By and large people don't learn to manage themselves well until their thirties!!
And in my case, even later.......like a Sydney taxi driver, I only have 2 speeds, stop and flat out.

So here are my tips for recovery
1) be kind to yourself. Eat and sleep properly. Give yourself *lots of time* to veg out
2) do something completely different from your normal routine, use a totally different part of your
brain, in your case this might mean something visual such as painting or photography or going
to movies or being a tourist somewhere interesting for a while
3) exercise eg long walks, swimming especially in the sea
4) pay no attention to the black feelings. Have faith they will pass. Instead, concentrate on small
but interesting activities for the joy of the moment they give you.

Forget September is looming and enjoy now.

PS My experience of university counselling services is such that I would strongly recommend
that you avoid them like the plague. If you want a professional therapist, or feel happy pills are needed
so you can get out of bed in the morning, talk to your GP.

Scaramouche, I was in almost the same situation as you when I did my music degree. Hated it, didn't want to leave but having gone into it thinking I'd be a classroom music teacher was convinced that I'd not be doing that and that I needed to do something else. So after I had a breakdown in November of my second year, I went to the GP and was put on antidepressants, and saw my Uni counselling service (which despite what loops says, was a great thing, I had a really good counsellor) and I also got in touch with the academic support services because things did start to affect my work. My depression was what led to my feelings about the course, in part, so not quite the same causes as you, but I wouldn't have cared less when I graduated if I never did anything musical again! Went on to train as a health professional and now am considering going back to musical things as doing my second degree gave me the confidence I lacked and also the insight into why I feel as I do about things.

It does get better; but you will kick yourself if you don't finish your degree in some form. Maybe find out about support services so you have people around if you're low, or defer for a year and take a year to do something totally non-musical and confine your musical activities to 'just for fun' things? Sometimes it takes walking away from something for you to realise where it's supposed to fit in to your life.

having read more posts, Scaramouche, I would urge you to do all you can to finish your degree and then re-assess yourself and position etc. Remember, it's the things you DON'T do that you regret. Your degree could mean so much to your future...

And I would repeat - ask other teachers about short-cuts, just make it easier for yourself. If you carry on the teaching, see it as useful experience and do it for YOU!

good luck