I'm asking this on behalf of a friend...

She is concerned because her eight-year-old daughter is getting teased at school because - although she loves singing - her friends say she hasn't got a very good singing voice. Her mum is inclined to agree and says she just doesn't know what to say every time her daughter says ' I can sing well can't mum?' Next time her daughter asks, my friend is seriously thinking of saying 'well it's not your best point' or something similar, because she thinks her daughter could fall harder later on if she doesn't find out the truth now. I've advised her not to, as I think this could be quite damaging.

I think that, at 8 years old, her daughter is far too young to be written off in terms of her musical ability. I have advised her to encourage her daughter's enjoyment of music, maybe even looking into getting her a few singing lessons or taking up a musical instrument. Without telling her she is the next Katherine Jenkins of course as that could set up unrealistic expectations! I've suggested that the next time her daughter asks her she says something like 'well I'm no expert, but it sounds okay/pretty good to me'...

Just wondered what others thought...

I completely agree. What do a bunch of untrained 8 year olds know? It would be criminal to make derogatory comments in this situation. This child needs support and encouragement to deal with playground bullying and continue enjoying music-making.

Rant over!

The short answer to the title of your thread is absolutely not. I quite agree with you, I frequently hear adults saying how they were told they couldn't sing as a child, and they have never sung since. I'm sure the mother doesn't want to have this happen to her child. Actually once I asked my mum (while singing a hymn in church) if I was a good singer she said no, and I went right off singing. I am not sure she heard me correctly, but that made no difference at the time. I'm fine now, but probably only because I'm a musician anyway.

I certainly don't think one should tell an eight year old they can't sing or have little musical ability. It may , of course, be true, but if you nurture even the little there is then it will develop. I think your idea of getting the child some lessons is a good one. She needs an understanding teacher who will do everything to encourage her.

I'd be a little inclined also to play down the importance of her classmates judgements. Perhaps say something on the lines of "Well, they may not be the best people to give you an opinion." Peer group ressure is difficult to deal with because one doesn't want to upset the child's relationship with her friends but I'm sure a wise mother can find something appropriate to say to encourage self esteem.

I don't know anything about individual singing lessons for children but other posters who do will probably say if they think it a good idea or not. If it isn't, then learning an instrument should help. How about the recorder? It's a good way into music at that age and if the child takes to it can be taken to just as high a level as any other instrument. (I say that because a lot of people mistakenly think it's just an educational whistle!)

I agree, it would be completely criminal to tell her she can't sing. This is how confidence in singing is destroyed, sometimes for life - it's that serious.

Tell the mother to encourage her in every possible way, including offering her instrumental lessons in a fixed note instrument like piano or recorder. That way she'll hear how the notes are supposed to sound and this will help her pitch her singing notes more in tune. Also, if the rest of the family can sing in tune (quality of voices immaterial) what about doing a lot of family singing, like having old-fashioned sing-songs from time to time? Sort of spontanously?

Primary schools don't have as much singing as they used to, so it's important she gets the chance to sing with others. When my son was young we all used to sing 'Bye Bye Blackbird' together on a regular basis (don't ask). Joining a school choir could be problematical unless the choir leader is sensitive and understanding with out-of-tune singers. The best option of all would be to get her into a children's Kodaly singing group if there was one nearby (unilkely but it's worth finding out about). This would encourage her in her singing and also get her to pitch correctly - but I know this is an unrealistic prospect, least of all with a mother who could even consider telling her 8-year-old daughter she's no good at singing.

Also, if the child is still convinced she can sing well despite her classmates telling her she doesn't, that kind of confidence in a young child should never be deliberately shattered. Infinitely better to nurture that enthusiasm and subtly find a way to help her improve her singing.

I totally agree with you, jinxi.

The piano is fixed pitch, but I doubt you'd find a wind player saying their instrument had a truly 'fixed' pitch. Playing a wind instrument still requires good relative pitch. For those with seriously wavering intonation problems that never seem to improve, the piano is probably the best option, although I'm not entirely convinced it actually encourages the student to listen to the pitches of the notes. I inherited two violin students from another teacher, both of them played piano before taking up the violin, but despite all sorts of ideas and aural training their intonation is still not that great.

No, please don't tell her - you really could put her off singing and music in general forever.

As others have said - don't tell her. There must be a local youth choir of some description that would encourage her to sing. My 10 year old loves her one. Even at 8, kids can be cruel so don't let the mother add to this and put her off for life. In fact, encourage the mum to sing to, and with, her. I am amazed at how many students never sing at home, and have never heard their parents sing. As a family car journeys have always been singing sessions..........

Fair enough, Amanda, but unless you overblow (or underblow) a recorder it's still much easier for a beginner to play relatively in tune on it than on the violin, especially if the player has a shaky sense of pitch. For proof of this, listen to a typical bunch of primary school fiddlers and then listen to a typical primary school recorder group!

Absolutely not!

I have never understood why it is so obvious to most people that it is unacceptable to say to a child "you are ugly" (even if it's true) because of the damage this would do to to the child's confidence and self esteem - and yet the same people think that to tell a child they can't sing is perfectly ok.

Quite apart from the fact that often ugly ducklings can grow into beautiful swans...

My parents confessed to me as an adult that when I was a small child I spent a lot of time happily singing to myself - often completely out of tune - and they would say to each other "well whatever else she does she'll never be a singer".

All I can say is - thank heavens they were sensible enough not to let me know...

Rant over.
Thouston (DipABRSM Singing)

Excellent.

Just to add another thought to the thread: I was always encouraged musically by parents and teachers as a child. When I hit my teens I got ME and basically ended up struggling with everything. My A level teachers basically told me to expect Cs, Ds, Es, and Ns in the various bits of my music A level. I managed a B in the end, but despite that, despite managing to do well in exams as an adult, despite early promise and much encouragement as a child, I still struggle with believing in myself because of the things those music teachers told me. And I was a reasonably sturdy young adult at the time, finally getting vaguely back on track and into a period of remission from the ME. I can't begin to imagine what it could do to a child (and let's face it, most 7 and 8 year olds don't exactly sing brilliantly!) to be told that so young, and by their mother

I rest my case.

If I had five pounds for every time an adult who answers my question, 'Why do you think you can't sing?' with 'because someone told me I couldn't' I would be a very rich lady!!!

Ever heard of self-fulfilling prophecies??? Never, EVER tell someone they can't do something. If you absolutely feel you must, at least qualify it with the word 'yet'...

What is the world coming to? There are enough forces trying to strip education of all its joy and vitality by assessing the poor blighters every five minutes, without these unkind girls adding to the misery. She (your friend's daughter) should be given every encouragement to enjoy music in all its forms, whether as performer or listener. Tell those other girls to get a life: we're talking about a school singing group, not the BBC Singers!

I had a terrible experience as a child which illustrates exactly how true the above comments are.

I used to love dancing when I was little, and would leap around the room to the gypsy music they regularly played on the radio on Sunday nights on the 'Grand Hotel' programme on what's now called Radio 2. Before that I'd gone to ballet lessons in London which I'd loved.

Anyway...one day there was a dance display at my school, in front of all the parents. I was in it, and in the middle of the performance I must have done something wrong because the teacher suddenly yelled at me for being 'all wrong'. It was the way she did it - something in me completely crumpled and I totally lost confidence in dancing after that for more decades than I care to mention. It's not as if I wasn't used to criticism because obviously my violin playing was continually being corrected by my violin teacher but never, ever in such a way that it dented my confidence (thank goodness).

Teachers have no idea how much confidence they can bestow or destroy and in my case with dancing it was destroyed. Regrettably, I was so traumatised (because I'd thought I was a good dancer) that I never told my parents about this event, so they couldn't step in and do anything to put it right because they didn't know.

This makes me think about the poster who said on another thread a few days ago that young children are simple beings; well actually no, they're not - and what happens when they're that age can and often does colour the rest of their life. I still feel very envious of people who can express themselves beautifully and confidently through dance.

For the record, I do occasionally get up at parties but only when I've had more than a few, and did decide to try and crack it once and for all not long ago when I joined a local friendly salsa class. I did master the basic step quite quickly and was told by the teacher I had an 'unusually good sense of rhythm' (um, thank god for that, I'm a musician) but when it came to the complicated next level I'd just get more and more confused and tangled up with arms and legs etc. In the end I sprained my ankle (falling off the stage at one of my gigs ) and had to give up the regular classes, but learning and becoming good at the basic salsa step has at least finally restored some of my confidence at dancing.

However, all of that could have been avoided if that wretched teacher hadn't done and said what she did that day.

Yep I agree with everyone else - don't tell her.

I was doing work experience at my old primary school about a month ago, and they were doing a school play. One of the girls (about age 10) was singing a solo, and really enjoyed singing it. And then the people in her class and her 'friends' decided to tell her that she couldn't sing and that she had a horrible voice, when in fact she was okay at singing and was having to sing unaccompanied so any wrong notes were completely acceptable. This girl ended up in tears and didn't want to be in the play anymore. In the end she was persuaded to do it, but you could tell she was uncomfortable in doing it now. It was quite sad.

Obviously I haven't heard your friend's daughter sing, but she seems dedicated enough that she will make improvements with her singing - given the chance and the encouragement - if she has lessons, or even just has her voice matures.

I would think that at 8 and with no musical training nobody is in a positon to say anything about her musical ability. And does anybody know how well or otherwise the childs peers actually sing? Maybe they are just good at imitating the latest pop idol?

If this child isn't exactly going to make a career out of their singing, it is fair to tell them at some point, but not at 8.

I was told I wouldn't not because I couldn't sing but because concert singers were meant to be built like Monserraat Cabille or Joan Sutherland and not be 4' 11'' and weigh under 9 stone.

At 8 this girl needs to find someone who can nurture her love and bring her on. She may proove mum and friends wrong. A way into lessons may be, "well my darling, you could always sing a little better, and we're going to help you by getting you lessons." A good teacher could then have you eating your words. A good teacher would also boost her self esteem and prevent her from damaging her voice whilst she is young.

I have a pupil who I initally taught singing for aural work to, now he's doing his Grade 1, he just needed someone else to point out where he was going wrong, then suddenly a wonderful treble voice was revealed.

This girl may be the ugly-duckling sound-a-like at present, but given time could turn into a swan. 8 is too young to write someone off. And 8 year old kids can be really mean in the playground. Trust me I'm mother to an 8 year old; I pick uo the pieces regularly.

In one of the schools I work in, a violin pupil has a very good singing voice (in my opinion) yet is always being told by her peers that she can't sing. Perhaps they're just jealous? Luckily they don't manage to dent her confidence.

I'm only 12. I have been told I can sing. I have sung solo when I was 8, but not since because I am quite shy of singing in public. However, I love to sing by myself. When the TV adverts come on that sort of thing. I'm quite musical so I think it's part of that. I sing to myself at school when writing. But when I was 8 if someone had told me I can't sing like I'm not that good at it, I would have been too upset to try again. I think it is fun to sing and enjoy what you're doing even if you are not that good. Anyway, why can't you improve? No one starts off good at everything. You improve as you learn. No one tells anyone they're no good at anything, they just encourage them. I'm no good whatsoever at art. I know that. But if my teacher didn't encourage me to try a bit harder, I'd end up crying all lesson over what I can't do. So I would say no, never tell anyone they're not good at anything. Let them enjoy what they're doing it while it is fun.

I agree with what everyone else has said - please don't let her say anything along those lines to her daughter. When I was 9 I was told I was hopeless at all things musical and was given a tambourine to play in the school concert. I remember crying at the time, as everyone else was allowed to play xylophone or recorder, and I had been teaching myself the recorder in secret but was too scared to tell the music teacher. It wasn't until after the concert, when my parents were congratulated on my 'acute sense of rhythm' that various people realised that they had been wrong to push me aside. And it's all thanks to that tambourine .

What do 8 year old school 'friends' know about talent? Most likely, not much. If your friend's daughter has even a slight sense of rhythm and can carry a tune reasonably well, I don't see why she shouldn't be encouraged. Surely everyone deserves a chance?

It'd be interesting to know what the child was trying to sing too - kids growing up hearing a lot of pop often aspire to a different style of singing, with flatter intervals, melodies within a smaller range, and sometimes a fair amount of strain to their voices - I can imagine that it might be difficult to use that as a way of learning voice control...

There is still the dilemma of what happens if the child stays less able to sing than her peers, and grows up thinking she's got a stunning voice when she hasn't - and then finds out the truth. It would be incredibly damaging to tell her she can't sing, but her mum will indeed have to find a realistic half-way position, perhaps saying that her daughter's voice just needs to do a bit more growing up, or suggesting that it will improve with a bit of practice, and how about having a bit of a sing around the house (preferably with some vibrato- and belt-free examples to copy!)?

It can be just as damaging to find that people who love you have been lying for years as it is to be told something unpleasant about oneself in such a way that implies there is no possibility of remedying it.

...or even if she hasn't and can't - after all, she is only 8! It doesn't mean she always won't have or won't be able to!

I think criticism of a singing voice, too, is particularly bad because singing is so personal - no instrument to blame...

This makes me think about the poster who said on another thread a few days ago that young children are simple beings; well actually no, they're not - and what happens when they're that age can and often does colour the rest of their life. I still feel very envious of people who can express themselves beautifully and confidently through dance.

That would be me...but actually I didn't say that at all! I said....

(Not trying to be funny, small kids (under 7 say) are not complicated mostly. If she was a dog that barked at the wrong time then she'd spend a lot of time at doggie-training classes in the sin bin behind the curtain...I just think trying to overanalyze small kids is a mistake. Sticking with action and consequence is good.)


So I don't agree with your opinion. Your generalities do not constitute a persuasive argument in my opinion.

BUT I do agree that no-one should tell a child if their musical ability is limited!

Exactly which is why if it does need improvement for basic things a teacher would help. Underneath a host of vocal problems there can be a stunning voice trying to get out.

However. as I said 8 year olds are cruel, but so are decitful adults if she really is bad but enjoys her singing then something needs to be done to unlock the voice she clearly wants.

I'm not advocating telling her she can't, just enabling her to do. As she clearly gets so much pleasure out of music then she has some potential.

'simple beings', 'not complicated' - there's not a world of difference there. Children don't generally cry out of habit, they cry because something's wrong. I disagreed with you in that instance because I felt and still feel that training a child out of repeated crying in a 'Pavlovian' sort of way, the way you'd train a dog, is unlikely to be the best way forward for the simple reason stated above: children don't generally cry repeatedly out of habit. They only usually do that if a parent, say, gives in to crying for sweets or something like that.

The fact is, teaching your own children is generally fraught with problems, and crying is one of the responses other posters here reported. I somehow doubt training parent-taught children out of crying is likely to solve the problem - more like bury it deeper so it'll only surface later on with some other manifestation like a hatred of music. and being taught music.

Anyway, children and dogs don't really have that much in common, and as a parent I thought you would have known that.

Quite right, Sarah. Sorry, I should have considered that point a little more.

I suspect that there are a few people here (adult learners) who were told that they couldn't do this or that or that they didn't have the talent for something yet here they all are, playing for the sheer joy of playing and no doubt loving everysecond of it...good for them...but I wonder how many are not here for those very same reasons...confidence crushed, dreams demolished by the thoughtless actions of either their peers or even more sadly their parents...

This little girl should not be told anything that wil deter her from TRYING...sure she may not make an Opera singer...but so long as she enjoys it and gets something from it she should be encouraged and helped...Lessons would be great, lets hope the mother sends her for some as soon as possible, her confidence will take leaps and bounds and that can't be a bad thing.

Does it matter that she isn't the greatest 8 year old singer....not a jot...with a little care an attention she just might surprise everyone...

Good luck..

Kindest regards

Andrew

True! Give me a pupil, any day, who is enthusiastic and willing to keep trying, rather than one who has arrogant inate abilty that he/she doesn't feel the need to develop.

I teach mostly adults - singers - pianists and guitarists - always the same story ' I have always wanted to play sing or whatever but I was told by my parents /teacher that I was no good. Took me years to get up the courage to come for lessons '

My father was a famous local popular singer in the North West area - so was his brother - they were both jealous of each other and would not stay in the same room if one of them sang My father hated the fact that I had a professional career and was openly jealous. He was very destructively critical of me when I started singing but me being the arrogant sod I am I carried on regardless. For people with lesser determination adults and children it can be devastating I think proper lessons are in order

I'd also venture that it's probably less damaging for your parents to tell you you're good at something you're not good at. OK hard reality will dawn and you'll then have to work at it, but surely that's better than having your confidence shattered by an unthinking parent.

But obviously the best is a careful 'I love the way you carry the tune/sing in time/whatever' tempered with 'you need to work on such and such' and followed by 'you'll make fantastic progress if you work at it' - ie the 'praise sandwich' - praise followed by critique followed by more encouragement.

And there is a difference in being good at something you just play around with (if you see what I mean) and being good at something you are seriously studying.
I think that I sing reasonably well but next to someone having lessons there's not much comparison in either my skills or my aspirations.
It's a matter of how good do you want to be.

Amen to that!

Anyway, children and dogs don't really have that much in common, and as a parent I thought you would have known that.

Oh of course, I needed you to tell me that, it's all obvious now!

I went through the 'mill' too. Apart from my violin teacher, nobody believed in me. My father gave me what little bit of encouragement he could, when my mother wasn't looking or within earshot, but other than that, I was considered a 'useless child' by many school teachers, one who would never be any good at anything. Being very small I was pretty rubbish at the regular sports such as netball, although my tiny frame could run around a badminton court with the deftness of a Springbok. I got thrown out of foreign language classes for being so bad at them. I was interested in science, but apart from music, art was the only other subject I was really good at, and the teachers considered neither as careers for a child from a working class background.

Hmmmmmm

Now, either I had the hide of an elephant to shoulder that attitude towards me, or, I dug my heels with the decision to take no notice of what others said. Perhaps my stubborness was a blessing in diguise. However, I can't deny that what was said to me did hurt, it hurt a lot and I did do a lot of crying over it too. Maybe I came out of it as a stronger person, but I won't forget the comments and probably, subconsciously, they still have an effect on how I think others see me.

My daughter is 8 and can sing really nicely and in tune (she is a violin player sp has learned to listen.
However, some of her friends have told her she can't sing well... and it has really knocked her confidence. She often says "I don't sing very well".... she thinks she can't do aural too... and she can...

so please don't tell her. Many 8 yo can't sing perfectly in tune and they improve. 8 year olds are just beginning to realise they aren't "the best" at everything.... to be told they can't sing would devastate them.
My daughter still does not believe she can sing... inspite of her violin and school teacher (and me) tell her she has a lovely voice, because two girls told her she couldn't sing.

Can identify with both those sentiments.

Are you sitting comfortably? Then I'll begin...

This is (well, to me, anyway) a heart-warming story with relevance to this topic.

I started teaching at a new primary school last September and the Y3 class had a bit of a reputation for not 'gelling' as a class - some pretty difficult characters there one way or another.

However, as a class they seemed pretty good singers . One of the things I think is important is encouraging children to sing on their own - partly because of developing their confidence and partly for the teacher's assessment.

I have two puppets, Foxy and Barney. Foxy sings in a high voice and Barney sings in a low voice (just humour me here, guys). So if the children hear 'Hello, everyone' in a high voice they copy 'his' pitch and sing back, 'Hello, Foxy' and so on. Foxy is held high and Barney low.

I decided to get the children being the leaders in this game - so they had to come to the front of the class, wear the puppets and sing 'hello' four times either to the whole class or to individuals, changing the pitch of their voice appropriately.

All the children who volunteered had had a go so the next week I asked Elliott if he would come and do it (very quiet boy, never put his hand up). He made a face and said, 'Do I have to?' So I said, 'Yes, go on, come and have a go' and he made another face. 'Why don't you want to have a try?' I asked. 'Because I'm rubbish at singing', he replied. 'I bet you're not rubbish', I said, 'Come and have a go.'

VERY reluctantly he came up, and, slightly shaking, he did what I asked and he did it perfectly - changing the pitch and singing the minor 3rd interval in two different keys with absolutely no bother - very natural and beautiful - and then he promptly burst into tears...

Cue my Big Talk about having courage to try things etc etc etc and I made a Very Big Thing about how brilliantly he'd done it and how he was anything BUT rubbish (also included in my Big Talk was general moaning about how you should never think you're 'rubbish' at anything...). I could see Elliott was listening very intently while he sniffed quietly...

The following week, in Hymn Practice, I asked for volunteers who would like to come and sing 'Shalom' by themselves - and I noticed ELLIOTT PUTTING HIS HAND UP. Five minutes later he had sung it by himself IN FRONT OF THE WHOLE SCHOOL - nearly 300 children and staff - and he went back to his place just beaming.

I'm told by his class teacher that he wrote in his 'end-of-year self-assessment' that he LOVES singing and LOVES music and LOVES my lessons and that music is just his Best Thing.

That's a great story, and a positive memory that will always stay with that child, and which can never be taken away.

Wow, the rewards of teaching

I wish all schools had music teachers like you!

One very good reason to always encourage.

What a lovely story Cyrilla.
Never tell a child that he or she cannot do anything. Their confidences are so easily shattered. Always try to encourage them to have a go and if they enjoy it to take it further, Join a choir, take lessons etc but give it a go. This applies to kids from 3 to 103 by the way. One of my most improved singers is well into her seventies.

I know this is going to go down like a lead balloon, but ... well there is another point of view and in the interests of a balanced discussion I'm going to express it.

Have any of the "Don't tell her she can't sing ... encourage her singing," contributors ever watched The X Factor?

Have you seen the tone deaf and (musically) talentless entrants (with their adoring, supportive entourages) who are crushed and humiliated when, quite rightly, they don't get through, and don't understand how the judges can be so wrong?

Have you ever thought it might have been better if someone had loved them enough to be straight with them in the first place?

If this mother (I can't see the first post now but was it Jinxi?) is right* to agree with the kids that her daughter can't sing, then the trick is to find the right way of proceeding from that judgment. That the little girl can't sing doesn't mean she cannot do anything musical, or that she should be put off music, or singing, for life. A tactful, loving and productive way forward has to be found, but "Lie to your daughter," probably isn't it.

Sometimes you have to be cute to be kind.

[RUNS_FOR_COVER]barry

*Of course, if the mother and the kids are wrong and the girl has the voice of a lark that's a different matter.

Just what I thought, but didn't dare to say

It is far to young, at 8, to know what kind of voice or potential the girl has, so yes, it's wrong to tell her that she's incapable of singing. She is EIGHT for pity's sake - she needs encouragement to try, and to see what she is capable of. Not someone telling her "no, you're rubbish, it's no use trying". At 8, that's not only unhelpful, but inaccurate.

Even adults who sing appallingly can often be helped, if they're willing to be, to sing better or even to sing well. A child who hasn't yet developed into their potential - well it's far to early to say for definite what they might be capable of. No one is suggesting the mum tell her she sings wonderfully, far as I can see...

If she were 18, had been singing for years (maybe having lessons), and was trying to become a professional (or wanting to go on X Factor )... but she isn't, she hasn't been, and she's not.

...I have a friend who has always been told she can't sing - and indeed it's painful to stand next to her in church - but we discovered that she can actually sing in tune and reasonably nicely, too, given half a chance - BUT her range is tiny (just about a 5th, from about Bb below to F above middle C if I remember right) because she's never used her voice, and was always been told not to sing; she also finds it difficult to know if she's singing in tune when there are lots of other people singing - she hasn't had any practice till just recently when she decided she was going to sing in church even though she knew she wasn't very good...

Who knows how she might sing if she had been helped as a child, not just told to shut up? The fact is, whoever told he she couldn't sing in tune may well have been right - at the time. But by telling her she was basically rubbish and it was no use trying, they robbed her of the chance to discover that she could probably learn to sing in tune and that she has an OK voice.

As it is, she has considerably less than an octave of usable singing voice, and no skill in being able to sing in tune unless she can clearly hear herself and even that 5th, she had no idea she had till I gave her a bit of help and we found what she was actually capable of rather than assuming that she wasn't capable of anything.

Well if I remember rightly you wrote a gratuitously rude response to one of my posts a few days ago, so if you can dish it out....

I think Mother should be really diplomatic and not tell child any fibs, but encourage her to join a choir if there is one in the neighbourhood, or to take up lessons on piano, or recorder as someone mentioned which would be good for her aurally.

At the same time, and quietly to one side, she should mention to teacher that the girl has a thing about her singing so that it can be nurtured gently and sympathetically.

It may be that this girl cannot sing in tune at present, but the situation will probably improve with practise. Clearly she enjoys singing and at this stage in her life, she should not be discouraged. (If she wants to go and try out for the X Factor, her mother can tell her what an awful programme it is and no one in their right mind would go anywhere near it!! )

I just wonder how well these little charmers at school sing - are they note perfect?

If I remember rightly I disagreed with your opinion, yes.

I wasn't rude about you personally although you now have been about me.

I expect this is VERY DULL for everyone else to read though...time to stop.

Thats fantastic and just proves that you should never tell a child they can't do something
Whether you think you can, or think you can't your probably right, and parents approval can be very important in setting theese boundaries at a young age