I teach piano and woodwind to a range of ages - from 7 to adult. I find that the younger children are quite easily motivated to produce extra effort/practise by stickers, stars, mars bars etc and adults generally tend to be well motivated. However, I wondered if any other teachers out there have ideas for keeping teenegers motivated. I find that from around age 13 to 16 can be quite difficult. I hold a pupils concert about once a year which gives them a focus, and I enter them for exams. But it is the week to week interest/momentum which I find is sometimes difficult to maintain.

as a teenager myself, i get motivated just from praise.

something like 'wow you are good at the flute' or ' you learn faster then the others' really motivates me

taking the lead part in a trio also helps. Teenagers need to feel *special* if you know what i mean..LOL!

other than that, giving challenging pieces makes them feel that they *can do this* and will work towards it

You could do a search on the sibelius music site for Jon Raybould if you have any flute students. His music is great for this age group.

I am a piano teacher so I’ll focus my answer on this instrument.

I have some great ‘pupil saver’ music for this age group.

See if you can get hold of the following.

Jazz Rags and Blues by Martha Mier. Wonderful series. I introduce Book 1 just before we start working on the Grade 1 pieces, but it goes up to at least book 4 which must be about Grade 5-6. Book 1 is my favourite though. Easy, motivating stuff. Both boys and girls enjoy these books, but boys slightly more. Enjoyed by every age group.

Alfred Top Hits books. These appeal more to the girls. My teens love Book 4 with plenty of Disney or Andrew Lloyd Weber tunes. Guaranteed to get them practising and go away thinking you’re the best thing since sliced bread. Good arrangements too, for popular music.

Applause Book 1 (or 2) – I prefer book 1, by Lynn Freeman Olson – published by Alfred. These are about grade 4 – 6. Includes music by Bach, Tcherepnin, Schumann, Beethoven etc etc, but all the pieces are really showy and tend to be easier than they sound. I’ve yet to have a boy who hasn’t enjoyed learning CPE Bach’s Solfeggietto!

Recital Gems – Carole Bigler and Valery Lloyd-Watts – published by Alfred. Again, I prefer book 1 (perhaps because they are easier for me to play ) This book is a little like the Applause book – maybe slightly easier pieces. Similar composers….Bach, Grieg, Scarlatti, Spindler etc.

Both Applause and Recital Gems contain real crowd pleaser type music. I’ve found that the teens have enjoyed impressing their friends with all this type of thing. There’s enough music there to keep them satisfied for a few years anyway.

Hope this helps.

I can understand that this is a tricky period, because with outside pressures it can be very easy for us teenager to loose enthusiasm. Missfabflute is right about praise, but also if at concerts and between times you can get smal groups of teenagers together it might help. This is because it is very easy to cave in to peer presure that lerning an instrument is a waste of time etc; one reason I use this message board is because its the only place where I can find people my age who dont ask "why do you bother playing the flute" and can't understand the personal satisfaction/ enjoyment it can give!~ so giving them this address might help!

At the same time of course during this period we have exams etc~ which work wonders for knocking practise on the head (aren't we hard done by!) There isn't a lot you can do to work around this, except try and outwait the things which take priority over music.

I think this si the point when students either start motivating themselves or give up, and while interesting music, and a feeling that they are achieving something can help, I think there's only so much a teacher can do to help.

Two ideas.

First, I continue to use a chart for those at secondary school, but instead of stars use DOTS on the chart. Still a great way for them to get instant reward and quantifiable feedback.

Second, I try to get out of them (i.e. regularly keep gently asking till I get a reply) what sort of music they're interested in ( and I might suggest / show / play / try a variety) and they are of course really motivated (as we all are) to play and practise something they're interested in. Important in this not to neglect pop music that wasn't originally written for their instrument (e.g. piano) - being particular about this might result in them giving up music for life, so forget that idea! Sometimes the pupil is interested in music that has chords, sometimes showpiece type music that is flashy (they like playing fast notes), sometimes jazz (not many I've found so far), sometimes well known classical pieces arranged for the instruments, sometimes disney arrangements (readily available), sometimes musicals, sometimes film music, sometimes pop music hits, sometimes a particular pop group, sometimes particular songs from CDs they have. At first this seems demanding on finding resources, but once you've done it a few times it's easy - music shops and internet sites have most of these other than the pop music. FOR THE POP MUSIC if you're into using the web it's easy - just pay for a digital download for one printout of the song you want (lots and lots are avilable) and suddenly someone who seemed to have little interest becomes one of your best musicians, and what's more, they're now self motivated.

WEBSITES FOR POP MUSIC DOWNLOADS - THE LEGAL ONES
www.sheetmusicdirect.com
www.musicnotes.com (prints billing name as allowed user)

if it's not available on the above two sites, I've found it's probably not available, but I've also come across
www.sunhawk.com

Best wishes
DomRUK

I'm a student, and like Tamsin and missfabslute say, praise helps a lot. But, the thing about my instrumental lessons that I like compared with my normal school lessons, is that my teacher talks to me like I'm a normal human being! I'm not talked down to, I get asked my opinion, and so I try hard in my clarinet and piano lessons. I don't know if that makes a lot of sense, but it's just what I think!

Many thanks to those who have replied to my original question - some really interesting answers. I'm especially grateful for the suggestions on where to obtain sheet music for the pop music that students say they like, and also the suggestions for "showy"music and pieces popular with boys - I'll certainly try out the suggested books. Incidentally, my own 13 year old son is learning Solfeggietto at present and has really taken to it. It's easy to memorize which he, and many boys seem to like as they can then play it really fast!
Keep the replies going please!

Yes, I am 15 and I agree fully with the 2 other comments about being given praise and being talked to like an adult. I also get motivated if I am inspired, encourage students to go to concerts etc. I also think that if the lessons are at school, teachers should be sympathetic towards oncoming exams. Hope this helps, and good luck.

I agree with the previous comments about praise really does give you the determination to succed and help with motivation also! I also think that having a very varied selection of music to play helps loads too as you tend to get bored playing the same stuff over and over again. Having just finished school myself I can understand where pupils and teachers are coming from. I found that it helps if you can build up a relationship with the pupil as with all my music teachers I had a good relationship. Talk to them, include them in decisons, if its possible maybe get them to sit in on a younger pupils lesson and get them to help with the younger pupil by playing the music getting them to show the younger one how its done. Everyone loves to be able to show off once in a while!

Hope this helps!

Jen

QUOTE

taking the lead part in a trio also helps.

QUOTE

if at concerts and between times you can get smal groups of teenagers together it might help.

I find this works really well. I had a 14 year old boy who wasn't really interested in progressing and practise until he met another piano student at school, and he saw another boy he knew from school at my studio. So I've put their lessons back to back so they see each other every week. It has really spurred them on.

I also have a group theory class just for teenagers. They support one another, but there is also a friendly competition between them that is making this group reach out more and more.

Being invovled with their peers is very important for this age group.

This was a really interesting topic, and I'd just like to thank HMBach who asked the question, and all those who replied - especially the students who braved the teachers' board to add their thoughts - some of their replies were particularly thoughtful !
It's sometimes all too easy to assume a teenager is losing interest, when the problem may be down to something else entirely. I will remind myself to treat my teenage students with a bit of tlc!

Maggie

AAWW Thats sweet maggie! I think alot of the time it is something else on thier minds thats bothering them! If you give them the chance to tell you whats wrong they often will I did with my music teacher she supported me through thick and thin this year and Im so glad I had her to talk to! She alway knew when there was something up!

I have found the expression 'meet them where they are at' a good start for teaching teenagers. Use where possible the music they enjoy. Take an interest in what music they enjoy listening to outside of lessons. Also, introduce them to new styles or things they wouldn't be able to listen to or learn elsewhere. Encourage them to meet with others learning who are the same age. Also, they seem to love discussions - talk to them about music, and the part it plays in their lives - you'll be surprised at how much they've got to say!
David

I found this thread really interesting as I only teach one teenager (although many others are about to hit that age) and so I have a very limited experience in this area. Last term leading up to her grade 3 exam she suddenly stopped progressing and seemed to become very disinterested. I was very worried that she was losing interest especially as she was on my "high hopes to get a dinstinction" list!

Then one week she burst into tears and then it all came out about her school work and how she had ten assignments to hand in in the three weeks leading up to the exam.

I was so relieved that it was the school work not the piano that was the problem! I decided to forget about my high hopes for her exam and reassured her that the piano exam was not important to enough to worry about compared with the school work, and that I was happy for her to "fail" if that was what would happen on the day. Suddenly she started improving and three weeks later got a merit in the exam.

I will now need all that useful advice to keep the motivation going.

QUOTE

my teacher talks to me like I'm a normal human being!

I'm a student too (15) and I totally agree!!! I've just got a new piano teacher and whereas my old one would talk to me about loads of stuff as well as my actual playing my new one really doesn't! he never tells me I'm doing well or praises me, which I agree always helps to motivate us!! Because of this I don't practise as much at the moment and I'm not at all enthusiastic in lessons.

QUOTE

I think alot of the time it is something else on thier minds thats bothering them! If you give them the chance to tell you whats wrong they often will I did with my music teacher she supported me through thick and thin this year and Im so glad I had her to talk to! She alway knew when there was something up!

This is also really true!!! My music teacher at school has always been there to help and support me and because of this I always try hard in lessons!! It has a knock on effect, if a teenager doesn't think a teacher is bothered about them then they don't bother about what the teacher is trying to teach them if you know what I mean!

Luv me
xxxx

i'm 15, a teenager. i think organising competition is a good way, coz most teenager likes to compete with each other, then it's encouraged to do so.next, DON'T ever gave simple or childish song to ur teen pupils, i know that sort of feeling, it just look stupid enough to play childish song such as mary and a little lamb. if u do so, i can ASSURE u that ur teen pupils will''disappear'' after a few more lessons.organize group teaching one or two time each month , coz most teen are ''talkative''(hehe ).they may also exchange their ideas and even gving advice to others. as u know, there is always a ''wall' between a teacher and a pupils.(most of the time it do)so maybe it's good for the other pupils to teach others that were weaker.these are my piece of advice.

As a 16 year old myself i know all about how to get teenagers motivated. Frequent events such as exams and concerts give pupils something to work towards, and also provide pupils with a chance to show off (which we like as long as we are given suitable music which suits are ability as well as our age, no teenager wants to play baa baa black sheep in front of parents and fellow pupils).
Teenagers want to be taken seriously as proper musicians so treating them as though they are mature musicians helps motivate them.
Setting challenging pieces for them to play such as famous sonatas and even easy concertos such as Mozart's (make them buy the music -1 packs) really helps motivate teenagers because it makes them feel like extremely accomplised musicians and makes them feel good.
Be nice to them otherwise they just won't bother generally because often teenagers practice to please their teachers aswell as themselves. Don't allow them to walk all over you because if you are not firm then they will not take you seriously and they will not trust you with their musical education.
Frequently shower them with praise. 'That was BRILLIANT sightreading- I'm IMPRESSED!' and 'a concert pianist couldn't have played it better' makes a teenage pupil glow with pride and rush home to tell their mum.
Finally- no teenage pupil would come for lessons if they genuinely didn't care if they got anywhere in music or not. We ALL want to come out of our musical education with something to show for ourselves like having played in a big concert or having got distinction in Grade 8 piano. It's up to the teacher to help us acheive our goals.

I was asking one of my friends about their excuses when I went out for lunch with them today and they told me that the funniest one that they heard was an excuse for why the student still didn't have a keyboard to practice on. The student said "I did buy a keyboard but then my house got burgled and all they took was the keyboard!" Apparently, they got out again with an apprently 5/6 octave keyboard through the window...

i totally agree with u, water berry ice, we all dun wan to play baa baa black sheep in front of others, it's so embarassing, like a childish littel children, last time my teacher gave me the song, mary and a littel lamb, i jsut play it as sight reading, and left it aside although i didn't play it well, i just dun care about it.but if one pieces is nice, no matter how hard it is, i'll still practise it with all my time.maybe all teen think the same ??

Maybe all people think the same... and we're just less mature so we demand such things more~ we've yet to learn to lump things!?

Can I ask you teenagers to name me some simple tunes which are "cool".
When I teach beginners I normally get them to work out simple tunes by ear at home to play to me the following week. I'm afraid these are things like Mary Had A Little Lamb! Bear in mind these were all younger children...
What could I use for teenager beginners? The only thing I can think of is Titanic so far.

Hmmm, tricky one.

How about mobile phone ring tones??

I had great fun programming all my exam pieces for grade 7 in for mine, and everyones familiar with the common ones...

Harry Potter eg Hedwig's theme, Braveheart, Eastenders theme, and Star Wars are some that I've heard in school played by year 8s (12 year olds). They didn't work them out, but they went down pretty well!

Well I'm a preteen, and well the only people who are in my age group, who I have heard play songs like Baa Baa Black Sheep are well... lets just say you really just point out the fact that they are playing a wrong note in band, and thats it. No real conversation.

Well as elmo said, Harry Potter is good (I just really like the books), um, and if you have gone through all of the common moive themes and your pupil is still not giving in any effort, then you could go have a look for stuff by more popular artists. I've seen many books with simple piano tunes of stuff by Delta Goodrem(sp?).... That could work. But if not, then just sit down and have a talk with the pupil. Ask them what they like to listen to (that you can play on a piano), and try to compromise something.

I remember that I used to play a lot of pop songs, and I kick myself for doing that now, because my left hand is so weak. Mix the two together. But I know it took me a while to get into some of the more classical peices. Keep that in mind.

As everyone has said before, praise is really good. Also (This might just be me), but my mom is always reminding me to practice, and to practice for longer. Now I like some gentel reminders, but this is really putting me off the piano a bit. So that could be a last, last resort. To go talk to their parents.

This may sound strange, but if you are teaching a kid who is also really into vocal or something, then just play them a some or something at the end as a 'reward'. Thats also nice. I know that before my exams I piano teacher would finish-up with some aural, I enjoyed that quite a bit.

I think that playing an intrustment during your teen years is just a real test as to how much you want to stick to this. Band class is not really considered that 'geeky' at my school, but thats just cuz some of the more 'popular' kids are in band. Choir never goes along with the term 'geeky', because you see most of the 'good looking' girls in choir. And that catches a lot of attention... (Our school choir is just an all-girls)

Hope that helps!

-Amethyst

I've been teaching the flute for just over a year and I teach 4 girls and 1 boy who are all in year 8 at school, so yeah all hitting 13 this year!!! Another girl is older but has Downs Syndrome so I use slightly different techniques with her. I try to work on fun stuff such as the Junior Guestspot series where they can play songs with a cd backing track, as well as pieces and scales, and have recently introduced incentives of sweets and stickers which have gone down very well! I'm also a youth worker in a deprived area further down the road, so I sometimes turn into youth worker mode for a moment if it's obvious that something's wrong. Usually it's something to do with friends at school. But whatever it is, it's affecting their concentration and it means that we can then carry on with the lesson once we've dealt with it. Also, young people get sulky if they haven't practised - it's such a give-away - somehow they try to make it all your fault!!!

Emily

hmm tum ti tum. I've never blamed my teacher for not practising, (looks guilty). However thats not fair coz I do beat myself up about it to. I think if a pupil likes their teacher then they'll feel guilty for not practising!!!
As for songs to play I used to play loads of show tunes, cats, joseph, les miserables etc. You can get them in easy piano books and I love them, especially when they had words as well!!

xxx

The Making the Grade series of books are pretty good - mixture of popular music, popular classics and stuff from musicals. Make sure you get a semi-up-to -date version though...I've had strange 'you're old' looks from my teen pupils when they haven't heard of some of the pop songs (from the 80s/early 90s), or the version of Neighbours' theme tune is different now!

I think I know what I need to practise more and maybe your pupils would find this too.

As students and teachers, we're all in it for the music and I love hearing my teacher play...anything! So, I reckon that if my teacher would play something for me at the end of the lesson if I'd had a particularly productive week, it would encourage me to practise more.

My teacher does not let me play pop songs - not that I want to, I want to play Queen! She's very very classically orientated, I'm itching to play her all of Bohemian Rhapsody one day but whenever I've asked it's always been "you can next week."

Sorry, excuse my incessant ramblings, I never seem to have a structure to my posts

QUOTE

I'm itching to play her all of Bohemian Rhapsody one day

I would be delighted if a pupil wanted to play me something like that! Apart from the fact that it's the greatest pop song of all time, it shows that you are interested in the music and the instrument and not just coming to lessons for the sake of it. I think you should insist!

I just thought I'd let you know that I spoke to my teacher about getting myself motivated and she basically said that she can't do it for me and if I want a goal then I should do an exam. I tried explaining to her that I wasn't feeling good about playing the pieces she sets me anymore but she didn't seem too interested and that it was up to me how good I wanted to get. I also mentioned how difficult I've been finding practising lately what with my school commitments and things, that didn't go down well.

Oh well, we all soldier on.

I'm 17. I agree about getting praise, but as long as it's real praise that you actually mean, and not something that sounds patronising and fake. My teacher hardly ever says anything good about my playing, so when he does I know he really means it, he's thought about it, and I really deserve it. That's what really motivates me rather than someone who said I was good in every other sentence.

I've pretty much agreed with everyone so far - particularly hgirl, I think it is very important that the praise is real - the mark of an excellent teacher is to always be able to find SOMETHING to praise, or something to criticise!

I think piano students are probably the most difficult to motivate as they do not see the social side of music that students of orchestral instruments do... I think a good way to motivate pupils is to get two of them together (maybe have an overlap period of 15 minutes in the lessons) and get them to play piano duets - this works especially well if they are friends with each other!

For students of orchestral instruments, duets/trios/other chamber music is also a good idea, but the another good way to get them motivated is getting them into an orchestra/band where they already know at least one person (who could be introduced through the chamber music, perhaps?). They can then understand that music is a great way to make friends!

If you teach piano and another instrument, it could be an idea to get a piano pupil and another pupil to play something together, therefore teaching the piano student accompaniment. It's best if this is a fun piece - maybe something out of "Pop Hits of the 90s" or something like that!

As a student, I have never felt disinterested in my playing, and I believe a combination of enthusiastic teachers, varied repertoire, a bit of spontaneous background knowledge and a lot of orchestral playing is the reason for this!

Oh, forgot to mention. I'm 17, and I also teach - piano, violin and theory.

QUOTE (EmilyH @ Sep 19 2004, 12:00 PM)

I try to work on fun stuff such as the Junior Guestspot series where they can play songs with a cd backing track, as well as pieces and scales, and have recently introduced incentives of sweets and stickers which have gone down very well!

I strongly recommend that you avoid giving anything edible as a reward. There are so many people these days who react (physically) badly to e.g. additives in confectionary, or have allergies to minute quantities of substances that you may not even know you are giving them, that it's just not worth the risk. Even without those issues I would particulary avoid sweets because they are empty calories of the sort we are encouraged to avoid, and bad for teeth.

Something on the lines of stickers on a chart where earning so many gets something special to keep (e.g. a mug with a musical design, a stick pin or brooch of an instrument - there are whole catalogues of music-related gifts) seems to me a much better way to go if you want to offer tangible rewards. Perhaps even better as a special occasional reward would be a new piece of music in a style that you know the individual student enjoys. I suppose what I'm getting at is offering a reward that really fits the situation, rather like making the punishment fit the crime, but on the positive side instead.

Well I am 14 and i play the violin and flute, both grade 5

Anyway, the things that motivate me are lots of praise. I had a teacher once that only criticised what i did and i never got any praise, and i ended up not wanting to practice much because i didn't feel like i was getting anywhere. Also, being given the lead part in things like duet and trios (like missfabflute said) and exams and concerts.

Also, you could ask teenage students what type of music they like so that they can play something that is interesting to them. Sometimes I get really bored with the classical music for exams and want to learn different styles of music that i like.

Luv Jade. xx

Dear All,

What a brilliant post, absolutely fantastic. I really have enjoyed reading your replies. I find it interesting how the 14-16 year olds have said that Praise is the most important thing. Maybe that is something Children feel they don't get from other lessons in school? Nobody likes Criticism but if said constructive, it can be a great help.

Just my 2p's worth....!

Best Regards,
Craig

QUOTE (sutty_73 @ Oct 7 2004, 10:51 AM)

Maybe that is something Children feel they don't get from other lessons in school?

I would agree with this... all my music lessons are individual, and I like the certainty that comments, criticism, praise etc are all directed specifically at me. In my school classes the teacher is talking to 30 of us at a time, and it's hard to believe you're getting any individual attention at all (of course, we are, but it's just hard to believe!)

reported.

Huh?

Perhaps you should take more water with it?

errm no, LOL the post that was there has been removed. It was not nice and not something for a public forum like this.

but they left yours in so you looked picky

Why has a seven-year-old thread been resurrected in order to report something?

I think that the 7 year old thread was resurrected in order to post something very offensive - which Dawnmc71 got removed.
Quite an interesting thread though. Do you think we could do a 'where are they now?' and find out whether teens mentioned in it are still playing?

Oh, I see. How bizarre (I mean to resurrect such an old thread to post something offensive, not to report it).

mmm I thought that, but believe me I didn't dare look at any of the links on it....

Some of the original posters are still here, I think