Hello, My name is Angie and I have just joined the forums, delighted to have found them and just what I need so please take a bow ABRCM. I apologise in advance that this post will be long but better you know the full story and the more likely someone can help or advise me.

STATEMENT: I had to give up music many years ago for various reasons but mainly because my husband needed my care and I had to give upmy car and could not get to orchestra practice. My husband sadly died in December and I was hoping that getting back to music would help ease my grief and loneliness as we had met through music and shared a love of it. We met a one of those gramophone clubs which were popular in the 60s and 70s when owning hi fi was beyond most people and we would spend an evening listening to lovingly looked after 33rpm 12 inch LP records played on what was then real hi fi some mono some early boxy stereo with a supporting talk by eminent people.

MUSICAL BACKGROUND: I had singing lessons as a child and was supposed to be exceptional but I really wanted to learn the piano and violin. Singing came naturally and my teacher actually took me on for no fee after she had heard me a few times at the age of nine singing as I was walking to the shops for my mother. I used to make up songs. After I passed my eleven plus and stayed on at my Convent school in the grammar stream my singing was stopped because my parents wanted me to work towards a proper career and degree! At the age of thirteen I was sent with a Grant by virtue of my having passed my eleven plus to a sort of grammar boarding school for highly strung and gifted high IQ children where music and dance were very important. I had the mandatory curiculum Ballet and Scottish dance classes and my voice was developed but my parents refused to get a piano or buy me a violin so I lost out on free lessons. My best friend was having violin lessons and I used to accompany hjer to oirchestra every week, how do you think I felt longing to play? I had to go with her, usual boarding school rules no one went out alone.

Fast forward to the 1970s and I was working as a senior legal secretary in litigation and training to become a legal managing clerk with eventually becoming a Solicitor in mind. Later, as well as my ILEX law classes at Kingsway College I was going to music classes at the City Lit in my lunchtime and after work. I bought an old piano which I had to tune myself because no piano tuner would look at it - I used an A fork and the Prelude No.1 Book 1 by Bach as a test of pitch to do this and I am blessed with a very good sense of pitch anyway. I taught myself to play the piano but skipped the basics and went straight to the Bach, the first movement from the Beethoven Moonlight Sonata and other Beethoven, some Mozart and even Chopin from an Easy Chopin book and eventually and still in less than a year I was tackling the adagio, both solo and tutti, from the Beethoven Emperor Concerto. I am not saying my playing was good but I had the passion and I did buy some scales and arpeggio and theory books from ABRSM and attempt to do things correctly but my fingering was and still is rubbish. I got very frustrated because I could not play the rondo from the Waldstein Sonata or a very difficult Schumann Fantasy, both requiring crossed hands and good reading.

About a year after teaching myself to play the piano I joined the classes at City Lit. taking intermediate classes in Keyboard Harmony and Musicianship, Group Piano Playing at Intermediate and a just above beginners' Violin Group class having bought a cheap violin and yes, tried to teach myself. I also joined a singing class at a fairly advanced level and sat in on piano masterclasses as an observer. One of my tutors was also a tutor at Avery Hill College of Education and she approached me about dropping the legal profession and training as a Primary School Class Music Specialist. I admit it was the music lessons, orchestra, choir and free access to practice cells which did it for me even though qualifying as a teacher would have meant a big salary drop from what I was already earning. I applied and this lady sponsored me and I attended the usual panel and auditions plus a special reasoning and thought cohesion cum IQ test for mature students which I came out top in. I was commended for my singing but wanted to play the piano properly so chose piano as first study and singing and violin, later changing to viola, as joint second and my singing teacher, Elizabeth Hawes, begged me to switch to singing for first because she thought I had promise and wanted more time with me, I resisted not least of all because I wanted to sing Schubert and Mozart and hated the Mahler she gave me and constant picking up on my poor German accent as I had done French and Latin but no German at school. I also resented being told to give up smoking. I eventually gave up on my own cold turkey in 1993. Whilst at College I was a student member of the ISM and had fully intended to try and eventually get a performers diploma in something, I see now that was rather presumptious of me.

I only did my first year at Avery Hill because my husband's health made it difficult for me to fulfil all my obligations as a student and with him becoming more and more dependent on my care I found the long drive and a full day too much so I left. I had already joined Hertford Symphony Orchestra playing viola and although the orcherstra was and still is minimum grade VI entry with a professional attitude to their performances and a professional Leader I was made very welcome by the then Musical Director Iain Sutherland who has conducted for BBC orchestras and written film scores and is himself a string player. It was Iain who gave me the confidence to benefit from practising with good musicians and who, when I said I was not good enough to play in the concert, asked if I wanted to play. I said yes and Iain said I was playing and that wanting to do something is halfway to achieving. I did play and apart from the bridge falling off my viola down the low cut neck of my new black evening dress it went really well. We played a Berlioz Overture, the Bruch Violin Concerto and Sibelius 2nd Symphony. I am not saying I did not mime the difficult passages but I made a good effort and worked my way up to second desk outside player. I also played as an amateur extra in concerts for other Herts orchestras from time to time as the viola was and still is a shortage instrument! I was a keen and involved member of HSO for about five years and gave up because I had to give up running a car. I also had to give up my piano because the soundboard was broken and it became unplayable to anyone with any sense of pitch! I got ten pounds for it and I cried as they took it away. I later learned it had been renovated and sold for a very good price. I was now musically bereft bar listening which just made me frustrated.

MY STRING DILEMMA: Fast Forward again to earlier this year. My husband died last December and after a decent length of time and feeling bored and lonely I decided to join a local no minimum skill level practice orchestra in the Spring. I had not touched my fiddles for years and they smelt after being shut in the old wooden cases and a bug had got at all my bows and eaten the hair. I bought new lightweight plush lined cases for both fiddles and a bow but the Viola still smelt and put me off. I also find the Viola too heavy to hold up now but although I can handle the Violin it is the Viola I love. I went along to a practice and was a bag of nerves and found I could not follow the music, could not see it because I have prism glasses and was very embarrassed because I was one of only two Violists so I could not hide at the back desk! The Leader and the other Viola Player did all they could to put me at my ease but it was no good, I played one note then just sat there like a dummy. I decided to wait until June for the annual free workshops for returning string players which the Leader runs. I duly turned up but it was a disaster and the Leader was hurting my arm when she tried to get me to hold the Viola correctly and I found I could not follow the simplest pre Grade I piece of music and my neck hurt. I have a long term neck problem which means I cannot drive more than a few miles without a rest or more than about twenty in one day. The Leader told me that she did not think I would ever play at even basic orchestral standard because of my physical problems and because I had fallen behind so far and that although I was welcome to complete the workshop she felt that the other members were doing so well and joining in with the main orchestra afterwards that I could hold them back. I made excuses not to attend for two weeks then resigned. I was and am gutted especially when I watch the proms or any orchestral concert on the TV or watch concert DVDs and have been left feeling worthless and useless as a musician. I have this longing and need to be part of the music, you as musicians understand this but what on earth can I do? Music is in me, it is an essentail part of me and now I have lost my husband after nearly 45 years marriage music is my life. Apart from the fact that I am on basic state pension and cannot really afford a good teacher there are no string teachers in easy reach for me to go to whether ISM or not.

MY PIANO DILEMMA: As with strings I have not played the piano for years and have forgotten all the pieces I memorized and cannot read fluently or in other than easy keys at all. My fingers are all awkward and I know it's all wrong. I have got three of those Yamaha PSR keyboards but they just frustrate me because they only have 55 keys and a lousy touch and silly lights and clutter and I run out of keys if I try to play the Moonlight or something then it puts me right off. I have an add on sustain pedal which is rubbish and the stand although a good one rocks and sends me crazy. I did go up to a shop in Cambridge and have a look at some digital pianos although I was too embarrassed to play more than two bars in the busy shop. I would prefer an acoustic piano but it might be heard and anyway I might want to play in the early hours. I liked a Roland and it was not expensive and I was prepared to put it on a credit card and pray but two years ago we had to move from a house to a bungalow because my husband became an invalid and needed a wheelchair and level access. I cannot find a place for a full size 88 key piano unless I get rid of my late Mother's sideboard or my desk and I am a hobby IT geek and am a radio amateur so I need the desk and I do not really want to use the spare room because I cry when I go in there as it was my husband's room. I am desperate for a piano and feel I could make progress if I had a proper piano with a good touch and 88 keys and proper pedals and stability.

I did go to a piano teacher for a free assessment session and after listening to my dreadful eight bar before I broke down rendition of what was once an easy and memorised party piece, the first movement from the Moonlight, she got me to play from what she called a baby book by I think Denes Agay and she made me keep my fingers on the keys and share middle C with both thumbs and count and all that. She said my technique was very poor and I was busking but that if I followed her advice I would play and she said she could see there was a musician waiting to get out. There are two problems one being the fact that it is not much good paying money I can barely afford for piano lessons if I cannot practice and the other is that it is another town and involves about seven miles each way driving and the petrol. I cannot find a teacher locally.

Sometimes I feel like getting the Roland and just busking and never mind how I will pay for it then common sense takes over but I am really desperate to own and play a proper albeit digital piano.

SINGING: The one thing I can still do quite well is sing altough I have dropped my once coloratura soprano(could sing Ruselka's Song to the Moon once) to a sort of high mezzo and I sang Art Thou Troubled unaccompanied at my husband's funeral and ewas told it was good and they even clapped much to my surprise. When I was at College Elizabeth said I was about Grade VII singing but I have never taken any Grade exams singing or otherwise as I am very nervous. I thought of joining a choir but I know from when I joined a choir years ago my mind wandered to the orchestra in concerts and longing to be there.

IS THERE ANY HOPE FOR ME AS A MUSICIAN? I apologise for this long message and hope that someone can help and advise. Please be as frank as you like and thank you for listening. I must tellyou of one more problem and that is that I get cracks on my thumbs and some fingers which are really painful, and which I am told are incurable but I have found the thingsd which trigger them but as a gardener it is hard to avoid compost or soil and when I do get them it is hard to hold apen let alone play. Oh dear what shall I do, what can I do?

Angie

Hi Angie

Welcome to the Forums, and welcome back to the world of music-making.

You've posted a lot there, and it'll take time for people to work through it and come up with ideas. But we will, so please be a little patient with us.

In the mean time have a look round the forums. Make yourself at home


Cheers

Katyjay

Thank you Katyjay. I am sorry the post was so long but I felt I needed to say all that in order to get help.

I see you are LTCM and I wonder if you knew my singing teacher Elizabeth Hawes? She was seconded from Trinity College of Music to the TTC I was at to teach advanced singers. I would love to hear any news of her.

Please can you tell me why I have a blue bar with five segments with warn? I do not see them on other people's posts or can we only see our own? Was it because my post was too long?

Angie

Everyone has one of those, but one can only see one's own.

They are part of the Forums' disciplinary proceedings - so hopefully you'll never have to see them in use. Pretty roughly, if you've blotted your copybook, you get a warning, of a severity from 20% to 100%. 100% warning (or 5 20% warnings) and you end up in the sin bin or something. The moderators eat you for breakfast and you aren't allowed to show your face round here any more....

So as long as it says 0% all is well and they're nothing to worry about

ps - no, your post wasn't too long. If it were too long then the system just wouldn't show all of it....

pps I'm afraid I don't know Elizabeth Hawes. Sorry

Thanks, I am relieved to hear I have not sinned yet! I am very good, honest

Hi Angie, and welcome to the forums! Thank you for such an interesting post about yourself.

It is clear that music is such a part of you that you need to find an outlet. I am a singer and so my immediate first thought would be to do join a singing group (choir or Am-Dram), as you are clearly a natural singer. It is also clear from your post that this is not where your heart really lies, but I can't help thinking that it would be a good step to help because for a start you will be meeting up with other musical people and you will have an ear closer to the grapevine, so to speak (for example, finding out about other musical opportunities).

I also get the feeling that you haven't gone completely through the grieving process for your husband (understandable, after such a long time together), and I'm sure that, while you're not ready for it yet, in a while (maybe in a short time or a long one) you will feel more comforted than unhappy by making music in what was his room. So don't lose sight of that piano!

Nothing more to add, really, apart from hoping you find an outlet for your obvious musical talents and desires, and keep us posted about whatever you decide!
Tracy

You may find the FAQ at the top of each forum useful

Car Expert

Hi Car Expert. Not sure why you are referring me to the FAQs unless it is about my question re the blue bar which I could not find an answer to anyway, but thanks. I have read all the Rules and the FAQs on each forum I use. Lot to remember

HELP! I have made a foxes pass here! Please regard the messages from MorseLady as Violist1941. I tried to register as MorseLady and not being able to access the forums for two days thought it was because I used a web email address so I registered again as Violist1941 using an ISP email address and I got access then I found my MorseLady one had been activated and I cannot delete it and after trying must have forgotten to log out and log in again as Violist1941.


Angie

Not to worry, I'm sure the moderators will sort it all out for you. They're very helpful when logins go awry.

Just make sure you remember which one you're going to keep, and don't use the other one at all.

The very helpful Administrator, at my request by PM, has now deleted the MorseLady account. Please regard all posts by MorseLady as coming from me as he cannot change them to Violist1941.

Angie

Okay, a few thoughts. As you can definitely still sing, I would join a choir. That way you'll be dong some music, and there'd be every possibility of meeting someone who could help you with piano/string instruments.

If you cannot cope with the size of a viola, could you possibly get a slightly smaller one? I'm not a string player so I don't know what effect it has on the sound, but surely a suitable instrument could be found. It would probably be an idea to get a viola tutor book, and work through that to help you get your confidence up with easier pieces and methodical guidance.

Also, when you are gardening do you wear gloves? That would lessen the contact with soil and hopefully reduce the problems you have. Otherwise, you could bandage some cotton wool or something soft over your fingers when you play, though again I don't know if that is possible when playing string instruments.

Whatever you do, I hope you can get back into music And enjoy the forums!

Hi Angie,

I haven't read all your post yet. I often spend too long on here and my eyes get tired

However, I was very interested to read that you once belonged to a gramophone club. I met a very elderly gentleman (95 years old) last year during my MA studies, who lived in St Albans. He sadly passed away in May this year. He was an avid record collector (2,000 78rpms for example) and thousands of 33rpms (all crammed into a very small house). As far as I know he used to run a gramophone club, or at least he contributed to it, back in the 60s and 70s in the Hertfordshire area. Perhaps there is a connection?

Welcome to the forums

Hi Angie, it's me again.

I've read your initial post a couple of times, and, to begin at the end, yes, there's definitely hope for you as a musician.

First thing I'd say is that it takes time to grieve after one is bereaved. And because music is so bound up in our emotions, it can take quite a time to be able to come back to music after our losses. It can be a comfort, but it can also take time for the comfort of it to be effective. It took six years from when my aunt died for my uncle to start playing the piano again.

The second thing is that when one comes back to an instrument after a long break, it's almost impossible to re-start where one left off. One needs to accept that a fair bit of re-learning has to happen, and that doesn't make one incapable or a failure, it makes one normal. So allow yourself to be a re-starter, and take it gently.

I'm going to address the strings side, as I am a learner violinist with a dodgy shoulder.....

First, I know you've replaced the bow hair, and one bow, and you've got new cases, but is it worth taking both the violin and viola to a luthier for a good overhaul and sort-out? That may well solve any issues of smell that still remain, and put them back in a better playing condition.

Once you've done that, or while you're doing that, have a look at what chin and shoulder rests you are using. I had a great deal of neck trouble when I started, and the reason was, quite simply, that I was gripping the instrument with my chin. A change of shoulder rest has worked wonders - I now have one that fits my dimensions and holds the violin steady, so I am no longer tensing my neck and the pain has reduced.

To my mind, a decent shoulder rest is a small investment to make a much-loved instrument playable.

Having got the instruments sorted and sorted out how to hold them comfortably, then the next thing is not to make my other big mistake - I got a bit enthusiastic and practised until I injured myself! Playing little and often was a far more sensible suggestion, and going back to open strings and simple first position notes was the way I found my way into playing the instrument. No-one can be an instant virtuoso, but over time little and often practice pays off.

The ideal would be to find a sympathetic strings teacher - such people do exist, I go to one . Someone who will help you find a comfortable way of playing, and will guide your re-acquaintance with the instruments. Failing that, have a look in the Viva Strings forum here for ideas on material for re-learning the viola.


My final comment is to take care of yourself. Look after your hands - rubber gloves and gardening gloves were invented for a reason. Use a good handcream, and if your fingers hurt when you play the viola or the piano, then that's time to stop for the day.

Good luck with your journey back into music. We're all here to cheer you on.

OF COURSE THERE'S HOPE !

I read your post through, and out of your very long missive six words stood out above all….’I left feeling useless and worthless….’ Add that to a very recent bereavement and you must recognize the emotional battering you’re trying to handle. Whether or not you can sing, play the viola or the piano, your musicality…that love of and response to music…… can hardly be called into question. However there is currently a massive discrepancy between what you want to convey through music and what you are technically capable of conveying . So what?

Technique can be learned. You may have physical problems, but when you hear of deaf children sitting their grade 8 and pianists playing with fingers missing you know that you there are those who give up and there are those get stuck in. Doing what they want to do, and ignoring all the naysayers in this life. This isn’t to belittle your difficulties. Not at all. But I suspect your long post was in part an attempt to convince yourself more than us that you are indeed capable of achieving something musically. WE don’t need convincing. We enjoy anyone getting out there, and participating (forgive me for speaking for others) whatever their level.

I would second the suggestion to join a local choir or amateur group…Anything where you can sing, relax and enjoy the experience and not have to worry about holding a position or working with cracked fingers. Music I find, begats music. From one group other opportunities arise. You'll find people who'll go to recitals with you, discuss recordings ...all of that. Mixing with like minded people all at varying degrees of musical development will only serve to reinvigorate your joy in it, and might help to bolster your emotional strength. From there you might just find your way to a sensitive piano or viola teacher who will help you to progress. I really do believe that ‘when the pupil is ready, then the teacher will appear.’

Spend time being kind to and tolerant of yourself .

And keep checking back here. You’ll find plenty of support.

Best wishes
Iona

Firstly I would like to say I thoroughly enjoyed reading your storey and welcome to the forums.

5 or 6 years ago I used to go around various retirement homes playing traditional irish music with my uncles to the elderly people. I once met a lady who told me she used to be a professional violinist in an orchestra but due to arthritis in her fingers and a sore neck she could no longer play the violin. Like you she longed to still play music and so she started to try different instruments and found that she could play the mandolin for short periods of time when her fingers weren't sore. Although it wasn't the same the joy of still playing an instrument really thrilled her. Maybe this is something you could try?

As you are a singer i'd also agree with what others have said and go and join a choir. There is much to gain from joining a group like that, you will be able to gain more confidence in reading music from this aswell. Although you may still long to be in the orchestra surely making music in this way is better than not making it at all?

As for the dilema you are having with the piano. It is possible to buy digital piano's which are similar to your Yamaha keyboards but which have a full size keyboard with hammer action keys. This could be easily stored when not being played just like your keyboards. Don't worry if you can't play what you used to, start of with easy pieces and work at them until you can play them well before going on to more difficult ones. When you start getting better at reading the music and building up your technique again you'll soon be able to play like you used to with practice. The most important thing of all is to not get disheartened with yourself because you can't play like you used to. As many of us here know, even if we don't practice for a day or two our technique can be set back so taking getting into practice again slow is key - don't put the cart before the horse so to speak.

Good luck and keep us posted on how you get on!

Just posting to add my support. There's obviously a lot there that you'd like to do, but don't be too hard on yourself at the moment. Take a day at a time, go for it in short bursts, find some social outlets for you and your music, and most of all, enjoy!

I have thought about your post for some time before replying. It seems that you have a number of problems. I forget where the quote came from - "there are no problems, only solutions", but I think this is what you need to say to yourself.

I second what many others have said about joining a choir, both from the musical and social point of view. People you meet there will open up other possibilities.

Your neck problem which is preventing you from playing the viola may well be treatable, given time - have a look at alternative therapies as well as conventional medicine.

I can well understand your frustration with piano, but on your own admission you missed out on the basics, so there is no solid foundation to build on. You will need to have a lot of patience and self discipline to go back and start with the really, really easy stuff and make yourself do correct fingerings. Even though a piece may be easy, its the presentation that counts and there are a number of easy books that aren't too boring while you work through this stage. Above all, allow yourself time - progress will be slow and you will need to accept this. I know - I had a break of 40 years from any serious piano playing, but kept up my musical interests and kept my fingers supple by playing recorders, which I still enjoy doing.

I can understand your feelings about using your husband's room, but have you thought about how he might have felt about it? How about decorating the room, which would become your music room, where you could put an acoustic piano, and dedicate what you are doing to him? Have a photo of him in there and tell him what you are going to achieve each day. I'm sure you will have lots of tears on the way, but let them happen and then get on with it.

Shortage of money is a problem, but also a challenge. I have been through that one too in the past! Is there a way in which you could earn some money, to be specifically put aside for your musical activities? I am currently reading the autobiography of Candida Tobin, a musician who came up against shortage of money throughout her life, amongst other serious problems, and she was very inventive in how she resolved this, using barter in some cases to get what she needed. Do you have skills (gardening, IT knowledge?) which could be put to use in this way, either for money or in exchange for lessons? As for aquiring a piano - keep your ears open as you may meet someone needing a temporary or permanent home for one, or there may be one that someone would be willing to let you practice on, even if only occasionally, for the time being.

I have no doubts about your musical abilities - have faith in yourself, but also be realistic about how long it is going to take and enjoy the journey! If you would like to PM me and let me know where you live in Hertfordshire I may also have another suggestion. Best of luck!

I am overwhelmed in a nice way and very grateful for the replies and support I am getting on here, what a superb forum, I am proud to be amongst you all.

Matthew, with regard to a Yamaha I can take apart, that is one thing that annoys me about my keyboards, having to set them up every time I get the urge to play, by which time I have gone off again. The whole idea is to have a piano and stool in a permanent place with the lid open during the day and some music on the stand and some pretty flowers on top and if I get the urge I just sit down and play! I have had one or two ideas since last posting about where I could put the Roland I want and I was going to take the train up to Cambridge today to get some inspiration from the music shop but it's raining cats and dogs and it's half a mile walk to the station and too far to drive. I have made up my mind I want it and once I settle on something I am pretty determined to make it happen. I will worry about paying for it later.

You mentioned playing traditional Irish music Matthew. I know the joys of belonging to a Concert Party and playing for elderly people etc because I was the child star in my singing teacher's group when I was about nine or ten and I used to sing suitable classical songs for old people and WI meetings with the group. But it's the mention of Irish that got my attention because my Father was Irish (and jolly good on the spoons and harmonica)and I have inherited the Celtic streak and we had lots of Irish dancing at my Convent school and when I went to boarding school at age 13 we had lots of Scottish dancing. I used to go Irish and Scottish dancing in London when I was younger and I have often longed to be able to play Celtic fiddle music! I also wish there was an Irish or Scottish dance club I could get to from here in the sticks of North Herts! The nearest are too far to drive and like my old Orchestra in Hertford would involve some night driving on country lanes.

With regard to trying other instruments I do in fact want to try the Cello but wonder if my neck and back would give me problems. I did think that instead of going back to being a beginner on Violin or Viola I might as well try something new as a real beginner. I would love to try a woodwind instrument but I have broken teeth and get out of breath easily and you cannot try those sort of instruments in shops for hygiene reasons can you? I did try a Clarinet many years ago but could not get an embouchure. It belonged to my next door neighbour at the time who was an LLCM and taught Piano and played Clarinet and she told me I woulkd find it very difficult to play wind or woodwind. I did have a go on a Cello in the Cambridge shop when I went to look at Pianos but was so embarrassed and felt I was being a nuisance so I only bowed a few notes but I did make musical sounds and liked it.

I don't really want to take up singing again to be honest. If I talk for more than a few minutes or sing for too long I start coughing and to be honest I hated my singing lessons and all the tortuous exercises and being pushed because I was supposed to have talent and promise. I like to sing to myself and make up songs like I did as a child. I can compose poetry off the top of my head and sometimes put it to music as I compose it and even make up silly songs with the few German words I know. Elizabeth Hawes told me that solpoists should never sing in choirs and that my voice was too stronmg for a choir, true I am one of those people you can hear over the others in church and I am quite likely to go off and extemporise a descant or sing a known one. I remember at my Father's funeral we had Guide me Oh Thou Great Redeemer and I got some looks from the Priest when I soared off to a loud and glorious descant. Think he was impressed? At Convent school I was in the descant, great fun.

You have all inspired me to at least try again with the Piano and one other instrument. I wonder if I went to a good music shop like Chappels in London I could try out various instruments and get advice? I used to go in there in my lunch when I was working in Lincoln's Inn in the late 60s/early 70s and they did not mind how many Pianos you tried or how long you played.

I am going to have a jolly good think where I go from here and thanks again all for your inspiration, keep it coming

You can try out woodwind instruments in shops I would never buy an instrument without trying it if it was one I already played, and so knew what to look for. Teeth *shouldn't* be a part of the embouchure, though if they are broken then that could hurt, although there are ways around that! Its also likely that playing a woodwind instrument will improve your breathing I've been playing various woodwind for nearly 10 years now, but I just had a 2 week holiday. I started the oboe not long ago and now I find I can't play it for more than a minute! Still, I know that with work I'll be able to play it again, and theres no reason why it shouldn't be the same for you. If you can't make an embouchure you could always play recorders - I find that they take little more than breathing to make a sound, and you should be able to get a sound straight away They're also light enough that you wouldn't have much trouble holding them/carrying them. If you do go to London go to Howarths, and they'll be able to tell you anything you want to know about clarinet/oboe/sax, and acrosss the street from them is the Early Music Shop for recorders and various old string instruments

Suepea I had already posted my reply to the other posts then saw yours. Thank you very much indeed for your input. Working is not an option for reasons I do not want to say here except to say I have had two nervous breakdowns in the past and was told by my Doctor not to work or do anything like degree courses. I have also been told by the DWP that I would have to earn a very high salary before I was better off than I am on my Pension etc. and I am not starving but I just have to be careful.

The book that the Piano teacher who assessed me wanted me to use was The Joy of First Year Piano and she initially lent me her copy but I sent it back when I decided it was too far to drive for lessons but it is available from the Library so I have reserved a copy. I also have some Burgmuller I was given at TTC and various ABRSM books. I am a rather impatient person and I also have a very short attention span and find it very hard to be disciplined and if I start with something I ought to learn I usually end up doing my own thing. I did this a few years ago at the local CoFE when I was on an IT course. I had already got City and Guilds Level III Systems Management on Windows 2000 Server, that's professional stuff but I do IT for fun. I then went on to Microsoft Professional MCSE courses which is really hard and I found it hard to concentrate and I could not get through a 90 minute Test Prep(like GCE mockups)and usually ended up doing web design or photo editing. I used to get told off at TTC for doing my own thing in the practice rooms instead of the pieces I was supposed to be learning.

I have at least kept my fingers supple because I have been a radio amateur for 20 years and use high speed morse code from an iambic paddle and it is acknowledged that the best people at morse code are usually musicians because good morse employs rhythm. I am not very active on the radio at the moment but can still send morse code. Like playing morse code is difficult if I get cracks on my fingers.

I am going offline now and get some chores done but will get back to you all later and thanks again.

Angie

Rosemary just a quick reply before I go offline to say thanks for the info about woodwind. That's great. I would love to try the Tenor Sax and wish I had bought the one I saw in Cash Converters. With a Sax the position of the keys mean I would not have to strain my neck or back holding it up? I would love to learn to play Jazz. I am also keen to try Bassoon and Oboe and even try Clarinet again.

Angie

Not that this will be a promotion-for-recorders-post, but...
It sounds like you live fairly near to me (I'm in Bishop's Stortford) and there are several recorder groups in the area. Some are part of the Society of Recorder Players. There's one in Cambridge which meets on weekday evenings, the Essex branch meets all the way over in Brentwood, or there's the mid-Herts branch (which I go to) which meet in Welwyn Garden City (every three weeks on a Saturday afternoon).
Now, while they might all be too far to travel, I know that the mid-Herts group also publicise a U3A recorder group in Welwyn. There might be something similar in your area! Or, you might find someone near you who attends something like this who could give you a lift. (If you think recorders might take you're fancy and you'd like to visit an SRP meeting, to see what it's like (no need to play), give me a shout and I'm sure I could give you a lift over to one of our mid-Herts meetings - we start up again in September).

Not that this will be a promotion-for-recorders-post, but...
It sounds like you live fairly near to me (I'm in Bishop's Stortford) and there are several recorder groups in the area. Some are part of the Society of Recorder Players. There's one in Cambridge which meets on weekday evenings, the Essex branch meets all the way over in Brentwood, or there's the mid-Herts branch (which I go to) which meet in Welwyn Garden City (every three weeks on a Saturday afternoon).
Now, while they might all be too far to travel, I know that the mid-Herts group also publicise a U3A recorder group in Welwyn. There might be something similar in your area! Or, you might find someone near you who attends something like this who could give you a lift. (If you think recorders might take you're fancy and you'd like to visit an SRP meeting, to see what it's like (no need to play), give me a shout and I'm sure I could give you a lift over to one of our mid-Herts meetings - we start up again in September).
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Hello Maizie,

Many thanks, I never got on with the recorder and cannot actually play it but it was compulsory for students on the music course at Avery Hill TTC. I have still got my recorder and I will think about your group so ploease keep me posted via PM. Thanks for the kind offer of a lift but it would be out of your way to come to Stevenage and in fact I can get the 301 bus nearby and have a free Bus Pass. In any case Welwyn and WGC are places I can drive to but parking in Welwyn on a Saturday is dreadful.

Angie


PS to all I inadvertently posted a reply meant for this thread on ClariNicki's thread for which I apologise to ClariNicki and thanks Skylark for bringing it to my attention. It may be out of context now but I will paste here anyway as you suggest here it is



To everyone who has replied with advice re my returning to playing first of all I do wear gardening gloves and I do use cream and wash my hands but I am so allergic to compost it still gets through. Sticking plasters keep coming off and stop me using my computer keyboard. Just picking up a pot plant to move it or water it and accidentally touching a tiny bit of compost on the edge can set a crack off. They are so painful if I knock one it hurts. I am also allergic to scouring powder so I stopped using that and use other things instead. When I went to that workshop I had a couple of cracks and part of the piece we were playing was pizzicato but had it been bowed I might have been able to play. I do have a Viola book the one by Alison Milne and I have my old ABRSM scales etc I had at College too.

I think what made me feel worthless was the remark by the Leader of the local orchestra who ran the returners workshop that I would never reach orchestral standard because of my problems, instead of advising me to work through them like people on here have and your suggestions and support has been a great help and made me want to try again.

My Viola is a very cheap one and I do mean cheap about £60 in 1975 and I was going to replace it once I was certain I could play but it will have to be another cheap one like Stentor Student II or Conservatoire. I did wonder if a shoulder rest would help and I will buy one and see how I get on. The Viola is only a 15 and a half and not wide and to go to anything smaller would lose the Viola sound. I think a lot of it is nerves and lack of confidence and as some of you suggest too soon after losing my husband. I lost confidence driving too and had to be rescued off the motoway after a panic attack in March but I am happier driving now so maybe another go at the music soon.

I feel I ought to buy that Roland digital piano, I am longing to buy it and feel quite fired up so should I even if it means using a credit card and moving my furniture about? I know my husband would say buy it and in fact I was about to and he was looking forward to hearing me play because he had lost the use of his hands through severe RA and could not play but then he died and I could not throw out my late Mother's rather old and shabby sideboard to make room for it as I had planned as now I have no one left
belongings that were theirs matter. In all honesty that sideboard is falling apart and I know my Mother would probably not mind if I put it in the garage. The other thing is that I am not happy in this area with high rise flats being built all round us and a busy railway over the road and want to move but it would have to be to an even smaller bungalow with no room for a piano. We moved here two years ago and I want to move back to the area four miles away where we lived in the same house for 32 years. I need to think if I am desperate enough for a piano to stay where I am very unhappy and stressed and possibly by continuing to live here be too stressed to play.

Thanks again everyone for your advice and encouragement.

Angie

Ahhhhhhhhhh.......the cello..........My instrument. And at risk of all those squashed tomatoes being thrown at me from others here .......the most beautiful, best, and glorious. You understand - I am biased I wanted to suggest the 'cello to you but felt you already had your own preferences. Obviously I can't advise you re your physical problems and how playing cello might affect you. However, just to say that there should not be any twisting in the back, shoulder or neck area. Everything should be beautifully aligned and relaxed. However tension is a major problem for many which in turn can lead to pain in those areas. Also you'd be surprised how many people turn to 'cello after a major trauma or bereavement ....I did !

If you still get into London regularly you'll find no shortage of teachers or beginners cello courses. You might want to investigate ELLSO too - the East London Late Starter's Orchestra. (just Google it).

All the best.

Full detais on the mid-Herts group can be found here
The U3A group meets on a Thursday morning but I don't know the location that's given.
The Saturday group meets at the Friends' Meeting House, Handside Lane. This is out of the town centre, AND it has its own car park (usually with plenty of space - I've never not got a space, and I usually get there about 10mins before the start time).
There's also a North Herts branch, which meet in Hitchin/Bedford (alternating) but my local geography gets rubbish once I go past Stevenage so I don't know if that's any use to you. They have a page here.

Oh, and the cello is lovely as well (I played as a beginner many years ago and didn't get very far). And I'd love a digital piano (acoustic wouldn't be a practical option for me). Choices are wonderful but when they're all such good choices it can be difficult to know where to start!!

Are you sure you can't fit in a small piano? My elderly mother lives in a very small sheltered flat and I got her a Roland F50 which takes up hardly any room at all. It has a good sound and feel and she is very pleased with it.

Roland also do a rental scheme which might help you decide if it is going to be the right thing for you.

I don't see any replies addressing your problem of following the music. While some of this will be a skill to be relearnt (like, say, reading the Greek alphabet) some of it may be owing to the distance of the music stand from your eyes, which is further than normal reading. I know several musicians who have separate glasses for reading music.

I play the harp which can be very hard on my finger tips and find I can play when they are in a poor state it I have micropore surgical tape over them. Might this help you? It comes off more easily if wet. I personally think you might need different gardening gloves- I have done enough chemistry to know that at times when you really need to avoid touching something it is possible to make sure nothing gets inside your gloves. Perhaps cheap disposables inside your normal gloves and turn them inside out as you take them off to prevent all contact with your skin?

Have you considered which instruments do have good local teachers who are used to adults and know how to work on posture?

My 15 inch Gliga viola certainly has the viola sound (when I play it that is!) and many other players on this forum consider them excellent value for money. I also wonder if you might find it easier on your neck to hold your viola in cello position as a few players do- though I know little more about how that way of playing works and it might be hard to find a teacher who could help you with this.

Do you know Wood, Wind and Reed in Cambridge? They are excellent specialists in wind instruments in Russell St (just off the route from the train station to the city centre, about 1/2 way along) and would, I am sure, be pleased to discuss which instruments might suit you. Far better than the city centre general shop which was never a favourite of mine.

Rather a stream of conciousness I'm afraid- but enjoy your quest!

I was thinking about woodwind, and had the same thought as someone else....how about recorder???
There's some wonderful recorder music out there and groups to play in and I don't think they're too hard to blow (or am I a mistaken oboist?)

Recorders are easier to blow than oboes But you have to be careful with fingering to get the notes, and controlled with breathing.

It is possible to play viola again after a long break. I started playing my viola again nearly three years ago after a break of many years. Before I stopped playing I had passed my Grade 8 and was working for a higher level qualification, and that was part of my problem as I just expected to be able to pick up my viola and immediately be able to play my old grade 8+ pieces. I still haven't reached the standard that I was at before.

If you really do want to play viola, it might be best to take things slowly at first. You might also find it helps to change the chinrest and/or shoulder rest. At first I found that I couldn't play for more that a few minutes at a time because I found it too tiring, and it made my shoulder ache (so badly that the pain kept me awake at night). I only sorted out my problem with holding the viola when I found a teacher who took the time to help me. I changed my chinrest and shoulder rest as the old ones were causing me to clamp the viola between my shoulder and chin to stop it slipping.

When I get cracks on my fingers I use a product called New Skin. It is a liquid that can be painted on over cracks and blisters, then dries to form a clear film over the crack so that it isn't painful when I play. When I first started playing again I got blisters on all the fingers of my left hand and it helped then.

Don't worry about what the leader of the orchestra said to you about not being able to hold the viola in the correct position, she is being a bit narrow-minded. I know several viola players of advanced years who hold their instruments in highly unconventional positions (some of them with one end of the viola almost resting on their knees and the other end not in contact with the chin at all), but they can still play to a high standard and make a valuble contribution to the orchestras that they play in.

If you are having trouble seeing the music when at orchestra don't be afraid to ask to have a stand to yourself so that you can have the music really close to you. People will understand.

I would second the earlier suggestion of going to the East London Late Starter's Orchestra. My viola teacher teaches there and I have heard that they are very supportive.

I takes time to get used to playing again. Please don't give up viola just because of an insensitive remark by one person.

I've been following this thread and just wanted to say its great that you want to get back to music. Would it be possible for you to join the church choir or are you totally set against singing.
Don't take notice of what the leader of the orchestra said, you clearly have potential and could benefit a lot from a sympathetic teacher who understands your needs and physical problems. Trying to build up from a short period of practice each day would perhaps help to strenghen you, even if its not at hte standard that you were before you should progress quickly and find that you remember more than you think.
Like you I get bored easily with playing the same things, could you try and get ahold of lots aof cheap sheet music from charity shops or maybe ebay.
I think your husband would want you to fulfil your dream of making music in his room, although at first it may me upsetting in time it could become a comfort and make you feel closer to him.
Good luck whatever you decide
Paula

There's always hope! Don't give up yet! You seem very musical and I'm sure with a good teacher, you'll blossom into a wonderful musician. It's never too old to take music! We're all here to support you. Follow your dreams.

Thank you all for your suggestions and support and sorry I have been quiet for the past few days. I have got some problems outside music to sort out like getting out of this nightmare area (mainline railway over the road and major building works high rise flats next door) before I go mad so I am putting my musical aspirations to one side for the time being. I cannot concentrate on much right now as the problems just get worse and worse and no end in sight. Looks like a move to a smaller property just to get some peace.

Angie

Hello Purple Viola,

Sorry for not replying earlier, been very depressed and started a new thread about that.

Thanks for your suggestions. I cannot get to East London or any London as I am scared of London and have not been there for over 20 years.

I have decided that the Leader who made unkind remarks in front of was RUDE and quite different to the only Viola player in the orchestra who tried to encourage me. I will not apply to join that orchestra again but there are others I can get to easily, I have one in mind which is a nice drive and on the bus route if I don't feel like driving and where I lived in my teens and in fact the Musical Director plays for my local orchestra and said any time I wanted to go along I was welcome.

Your idea about asking to sit at a desk on my own is a good one and I have my own stand I can take. I have always played outside and find reading from the inside of the desk and page turning very difficult. When I played for HSO I would rather have gone back a desk if it meant playing on the outside than play on the inside but I quickly got up to second desk outside more by virtue of seniority and sometimes lack of players than skill and stayed there except for one rehearsal when the Principal Viola was away and I had to sit next to the Deputy Principal and on the inside.

My former orchestra HSO did tell me about two years ago that I would be very welcome to return despite their being semi professional with a minimum Grade VI entry and the Principal Viola told me I could sit on my own at the back and fake it where I could not manage and did not have to play in Concerts unless I wanted to. The problem is it means driving at night in Winter on unlit country lanes and that is not wise for any woman let alone a pensioner. No one else goes there from my town so a lift is not possible and the railway station is too far to walk carrying things each end of the journey. I will take a drive during daylight and assess the road and also ask the Police for advice. My car is reliable, it locks and I have a mobile phone but I panic sometimes night driving and have to stop and if I were to panic somewhere quiet and stop............................

Angie

Sorry I have not posted for a few days, had an experience last week ie my husband "came through" at a Spiritualist Sunday service and this really shocked me and I have been spending a lot of time resting. However, he seems to be helping me because possible solutions to my musical dilemma have appeared. My driving confidence has improved too.

An orchestra about ten miles away in the town in which I spent my teens is having an Open Rehearsal next week at which you can play or listen. I spoke to the Secretary on the phone and she said I would be very welcome and when I said I would come as a listener but with my Viola in my car and told her about my problems and my bereavement she suggested I could sit with the Violas and it was up to me whether I play or not and even if I could only manage a few notes to start with I would be welcome to join the orchestra. She said I need time to get back into things and to build up my confidence. She sounded really lovely and it seems like I have found a niche. The orchestra is a small community chamber size orchestra with the usual professional Leader and Conductor and who give subscription concessions to pensioners and others and a free term to all new members. They give about four concerts a year and work with the choir. The drive is easy all main roads or even the motorway when I feel up to it which means I don't have to worry about night driving on lonely roads and I know the route and the venue is near my old childhood home.

I think I may have found a solution to the piano too. Having looked at some smaller bungalows I would never fit into even with no piano I have decided I am better off staying here at least for the time being and putting up with the annoyances from the building sites and railway. You may recall that I felt uneasy in what was my husband's room but the night after I had that message from him via the Clairvoyant I fell asleep fully dressed on his bed and it was the best night's sleep I have had since he passed over and even the cat has suddenly taken a liking to that bed and forsaken mine. It is much more comfortable and the room is warmer in Winter which is why John had it. I could fold my own bed away in the garage and put a piano where it is in my room which is at the end and would enable me to play without headphones during the day. I am still getting a digital piano because I might want to play at some wee small hour!

I have been borrowing music from the Library in the Relax and New Age classification and I have also found meditation discs that came with my newspaper months ago and which I had forgotten. I find that sort of music very soothing and can now listen to other music too without getting stressed and have been enjoying the Proms on TV. I was horrified to find that I do not have a recording of a cornerstone work which is one of the works for the Open Rehearsal, Schumann Symphony No.4 although I have Nos 1 and 2 on CD and No.3 on tape. I prided myself that I had all the popular and many less well known works on CD but I will have to check that! The other work at the Open Rehearsal is Brahms Symphony No.2 and I have at least two CDs of that and I have ordered the study scores for both from the Library so I can at least familiarise myself with the Viola part.

Angie

Dear Angie
You are obviously full of musicality and in need of the calming and fulfilling peace which playing music brings.

I would suggest that you do what your deepest instinct is telling you and that is to get a piano and put it in your husband's old room and play it for him. Just do it.

Hating the place you live is not good, so after getting your piano and whilst playing it, make a constructive plan to move to somewhere completely new and beautiful. Make a clean and fresh start. Be you. The place only needs to be big enough to place the piano and a sofa and some shelves for your sheet music. Remember...the Past can cripple you in the Present.

This would take great courage but somehow I feel you may have that courage. You are still raw from grieving and I have found that only playing my piano, sometimes with tears streaming down my face, could help me carry on. You become lost in the music and the movement of your fingers on the keys...responsive and forgiving.

Perhaps you could buy a copy of an Adult Piano Course such as that by Bastien or Alfred Publishing (a personal choice) which would help you take things a little step at a time, slowly and carefully helping you gain confidence and abilty in a structured and protective way.

My daughter and I once saw a Bechstein upright in an Auction go for £80. We were so sad. We have a lovely family Bechstein of our own so did not bid for it because of lack of space for another. So you see there are lovely pianos out there for next to nothing.

I have had great sadness over the last few years and my great solace lay in playing my piano. Buy your piano...get rid of everything else which is a painful reminder and find yourself in your music.