Hi everyone,
I have a student who's 13 (but she looks much younger) and has what I deem "spaghetti" fingers. Since I took her on as a student, about 3 years ago, she has never been able to produce a remotely "full and loud tone" and plays very slowly, although she has made great strides already. She is a fairly good sight-reader (but self-destructs in a way because she often depresses a note so slowly it doesn't sound) and because her musical intelligence is much further along, she has been able pass up to Grade 4, although it has not without my "repertoire manipulation" -- she only plays slow/soft things. In Grade 4, for example, she played Philip Cashian's "Slow Moon," an alternate C piece requiring little agility and is very soft, and got a 28/30 even though she got a 19/30 for her Myslivicek (it was too slow).

She's sitting Grade 5 in November and can actually do all the scales now at the minimum tempo (always on the second playing though after I have to remind her to play faster). She's playing (not surprisingly) the Mozart Andante in Bb, Massenet's Melodie, and for list C (I believe all the Gr. 5 list C pieces are fast or loud, which is very strange to me), Gabriel Jackson's "October Monody." It's this last piece I'm worried about the most probably because it requires that loud, present sound.

Does anyone have any advice on getting players like she who produce especially frail tones and lack agility to play louder and with more presence and conviction?

Much thanks in advance!

you've yet to define spagetti fingers or the instrument she is playing.

Hi Andrew.

We have a young pianist here, yes?

I have a 14 year old pupil who presented with very similar personal style. My approach was to do a bit of a grind to develop finger strength using what was familiar to her - scales. She knew them well and enjoyed them too, so that was a good start. Go right back to C major, 2 octaves, hands separately. Demonstrate the scale with firm pressure - more than you want at first - emphasising that this is the amount of effort needed from her fingers.
Get her to try it. Don't let the exercise finish if she is playing too quietly. Calmly stop it, and demonstrate... request... demonstrate...request. Do it together if it helps. She will see that the piano isn't going to take any harm. My wee pupil actually surprised herself - and ended up grinning like a Cheshire cat! She is quite a shy wee character and it was really a type of release for her to make some noise! It's a simple tactic but it works.
Good for revision of scales too. She could practice playing crescendo ascending, dimuendo descending and other variations of that type too to give the scale more colour.

I think this is Andrew's definition of spaghetti fingers, and from the repertoire and his description, it sounds like he's talking about a pianist. I may be underusing my imagination, but I can't think of another instrument except possible harp where fingers would have a bearing on whether one could play loudly

I'm rather older but also tend to be too quiet, and my teacher had some success doing stuff similar to what peri busy has suggested - more success than just telling me "play louder" - he demonstrated, and when I played what I thought was forte, said, "OK, that was about mp" - it helps get the message across!! good luck!

Perhaps you could give her some finger exercises to do as an alternative to scales (rather boring if that's all she has) eg the later dozen a day books. This would help develop strength and agility.

Yes, good idea SueHM. Though, I would be inclined to introduce those just a little later, only because they might, to a pupil, begin to put emphasis on finger technique, rather than encouraging a full tone. But yes, variety is a good point.

Hi Andrew - welcome to the forums

I'm wondering if you and your pupil are dealing with two difficulties here. Playing with a full tone and being able to play up to speed. I think it might be best to tackle the tone issue first. One of my Dip Viva questions was 'how would you help a pupil develop tone'? I would explain the different speeds of the actual key to hit the string. If you have a grand piano it might help the pupil to watch the action while you demonstrate. Or try clapping very slowly for a soft sound and then very quickly to create a loud sound. It all seems obvious to us but might need explaining to the pupil, and I would suggest practising the full tone very slowly and with feeling. Try just letting the hands fall on to the keys using totally relaxed arm and body weight behind the movement. You could even demonstrate using arms and elbows on the piano!

For playing quickly I would work on agility and co-ordination - as Sue has already mentioned, the Dozen a Day books are very good for building up stamina and strength.

Sorry but why 'spaghetti fingers'?? when I read this I thought she had very long fingers able to do all sorts of twists on the keyboard or even: that she ate spaghetti before each lesson and came with tomato sauce on her hands!!
I know this is a bit 'ot' but I am really curious why it is called 'spaghetti fingers'

I'm guessing obviously but - floppy, messy, and goes all over the shop?

Yes, I thought spaghetti conjured up a pretty good picture! Sort of weak and floppy! Maybe the answer is not to cook her...

Thanks for all the suggestions so far. Sorry, I failed to mention what I meant by "spaghetti fingers" -> this is actually a term my own teacher had used once and it made sense to me. It's like her fingers are play like "limp noodles" instead of firmly, brightly and solidly. For me, the speed and tone problems at least seem intimately tied. Everything sounds like half of what it should be. I agree that they are probably problems that can be addressed separately. [And yes, she's a piano student.]

Is she maybe under the impression that the force required to play comes only from the fingers? What about getting her to watch really closely while you crescendo (molto!) in a slow passage, and analyse together which muscles and which parts of the wrists, arms and body are actually being used, and how that changes from pp to ff?

There is a fantastic new book available called 'The Musician's Body' * by Rosset i Llobet and George Odam. The explanation on p36 seems to sum up what I think you mean by 'spaghetti fingers'. The book describes it rather wonderfully as the 'hyperextension of the distal part of the finger' (Lloblet and Odam 2007, 36).
In other words the jpoint nearest the nail collapses inwards rather than staying firmly curved. Biggest enemy - wrist tension.

Another little book which is very useful is 'Dr Downing's Piano Technique Doctor' by Nadia Lasserson.

Good luck

Edit P.S. * all instruments not just piano

Is she hypermobile, because if she is, do work on finger exercises and pay attention to keeping each joint within "normal" and not hyper-mobile limits.

Pay particular attention to the finger tips.

I think i've got the opposite to spaghetti fingers...I can produce a loud sound easily, but I have to concentrate to get a soft sound.





Maybe a Hanon excersize done slowly and gradualy increesing speed might help?

There are different approaches to piano technique, and all can be very successful. Below is information on the one I use, which has served me well over the past 25 years. Possibly you might find it of some use.

It is quite difficult to get a child to produce a good touch if it is not established from the beginning. However if you read through the steps below, applying as much as you can, you may be able to make some progress with your student. In order to produce a good strong and firm tone it is vital that the child uses the whole arm. Remember it is impossible for someone to knock on a door strongly without using his or her arm. Using the finger tip alone will just produce a tapping sound.

I usually teach the child using the following sequence of steps:

1) First get the student to knock on top of the piano or on a table using the weight of the whole arm, and with different rhythms (for example the rhythm of a piece he or she is studying). You should do this exercise with one finger (possibly the third).
2) Draw arches on the keyboard, moving backwards and forwards jumping in octaves with the whole arm, still using one finger (with the correct curved position). When you draw arches (as always) the starting point of the movement should be from the shoulder. The number of arches you draw will depend on the age and physique of the child.
3) Make sure that the arms and elbows are free and not too close to the body. (The shoulder must not be pushed up). In this way you can control the weight of the arm in order to produce a good touch and sound, and the energy can flow freely.
4) Before you teach the child to produce a "firm" sound by playing legato scales, train your student to play a "Pentachord" (five notes) using long detached notes (tenuto). At this stage use all five fingers consecutively and each time use the whole arm, chosing the weight to control the sound. Keep the finger curved and firm. Do not make a separate movement with the finger. Think of the tip of the finger as an extension of your arm. This will avoid the "spaghetti" touch.
5) When you are ready to teach legato playing get the child to do this preparatory exercise first, on top of the piano lid or on a table. Make sure that the child can lift his or her fingers from the knuckles. Then close the piano lid and get the child to tap on the lid consecutively with each finger, moving each finger up and down from the knuckle. Playing from the knuckles ensures that you train and strengthen the appropriate muscles and tendons.
6) When you play legato you need to combine the arm work and finger work to produce a firm, solid touch. It usually takes an average child at least six months of hard work, working through these exercises to produce a good touch. I build these techniques into "Dozen a Day" and other finger exercises.

I hope this helps. Good luck with your student.

I realize that this is an older post, but I thought I'd reply to it anyway. I've come across the 'spaghetti' syndrome myself; yet there are different scenarios that come to mind. A couple students (piano) I've had played too light simply because they held the wrong hand posture (playing on the pads of their fingers vs. the tips) and not using their arms and upperbody for strength. Other students I've had were simply too shy or timid to play a wrong note, and thus the light playing was used. I guess I'd be more of help if I knew what reason was behind the 'spaghetti' syndrome! (I realize that some students are just simply overly cautious and playing a wrong note is too traumatic!) Does she play with a metronome? Does she count a couple bars of proper tempo before starting to play a piece? Hope this helps.