For background please read my opening message in my topic about returning to music at age 66. I have been reading ClariNicki's topic about inspiration dying and I think the death of my husband in December has caused something to die in me too. Not only have I suddenly lost my initial enthusiasm for getting back into music but I now find I cannot even listen to music. I have noticed since I lost John that I do not have the radio on much nor my car radio but before I always had Classic FM or BBC R3 on and John used to tease me about my headphones getting glued to me. I have to wear headphones, my semi is lounge adjoining and I am deaf and the sort of volume I would need would be antisocial. I have to have the volume in the car at or above 15, sometimes even 20 for a quiet tape and I get funny looks so I don't have it on now and anyway I drive better without music which distracts me. If I do listen to classical music I find I start conducting at traffic lights or even on a straight bit of road as I have power steering!
Just now I thought I fancied some music but I put disc after disc into my CD player of all different types and every one got on my nerves, favourite pieces and especially piano. It actually drove me mad and made me want to chuck the hi fi out. It is good hi fi separates but headphones annoy me and I can never get the balance right because I am deafer in one ear than the other and am forever fiddling with the controls. The only music I can listen to these days is Gaelic music which John hated. I can get BBC Radios Nan Gaidhael, Scotland and Ulster on my digital TV service and I love that haunting music and I am myself half Irish and part Scottish. I could listen to Pibroch which is laments all day!
Why does classical music and piano in particular upset me now? It has become worse since I have been talking about getting back into music so am I scared of failure or something? Did that Orchestra Leader who told me I would never play the Viola to orchestral standard again cause me psychological damage?
I was not quite open with you in my returning to music at age 66 topic but I have suffered from Anxiety Neurosis since the age of 13 and I am borderline MD too. How does that relate to my music problems and can these forums help? Or maybe it is all too early yet as I am beside myself with grief for my Husband.
Angie
Full Version: I Think Something Has Died In Me
I'm so sorry Angie, both for your loss and for your personal problems.
At the moment, you are associating everything you hear and do with your husband. i.e. certain pieces of music will remind you of good/bad times etc. The sense of loss is still raw, and you have not yet had a year to grieve. My dad passed away on 15th August 1983. Yes it was 24 years ago last week, but the memories of that day in particular, plus the times we had, still come back to me at this time. My dad was a great Jim Reeves fan, and for years after his death, it was hard not to associate hearing Jim Reeves with my dad. You say you are listening to Gaelic music "Which John hated". I think you are already on the path too playing music you enjoy, and hopefully it won't be long before you will be playing other pieces too. But you must give yourself time to grieve. What you are experiencing is perfectly natural.
Plus, as you have bravely admitted, you have borderline MD. You don't need anyone to tell you that this is mood related. The music you listen to will reflect your mood at the time. As it does for most of us if we are feeling sad or "depressed" (I use that word lightly).
I have a vast collection of CDs and sheet music, but sometimes there are days when I can't be bothered with any of it. On days like this, I sit reading or go for a drive or walk or something to keep me occupied.
The orchestra leader may have had an effect on you. But he/she is just one orchestra leader. Another might say you are more than able to play at orchestra level. I am the sort of person that when told I won't be any good at anything, go out of my way to prove I am. (Or at least try anyway). Stick at the viola and progress at a pace and to a standard that suits you.
I'm beginning to ramble on now, so I'll stop. But I think I'm trying to say, in my inept way, that in time you will begin to feel like listening to music again. In the meantime, find other things to do to help occupy you.
Best wishes,
DC xxxxxx
At the moment, you are associating everything you hear and do with your husband. i.e. certain pieces of music will remind you of good/bad times etc. The sense of loss is still raw, and you have not yet had a year to grieve. My dad passed away on 15th August 1983. Yes it was 24 years ago last week, but the memories of that day in particular, plus the times we had, still come back to me at this time. My dad was a great Jim Reeves fan, and for years after his death, it was hard not to associate hearing Jim Reeves with my dad. You say you are listening to Gaelic music "Which John hated". I think you are already on the path too playing music you enjoy, and hopefully it won't be long before you will be playing other pieces too. But you must give yourself time to grieve. What you are experiencing is perfectly natural.
Plus, as you have bravely admitted, you have borderline MD. You don't need anyone to tell you that this is mood related. The music you listen to will reflect your mood at the time. As it does for most of us if we are feeling sad or "depressed" (I use that word lightly).
I have a vast collection of CDs and sheet music, but sometimes there are days when I can't be bothered with any of it. On days like this, I sit reading or go for a drive or walk or something to keep me occupied.
The orchestra leader may have had an effect on you. But he/she is just one orchestra leader. Another might say you are more than able to play at orchestra level. I am the sort of person that when told I won't be any good at anything, go out of my way to prove I am. (Or at least try anyway). Stick at the viola and progress at a pace and to a standard that suits you.
I'm beginning to ramble on now, so I'll stop. But I think I'm trying to say, in my inept way, that in time you will begin to feel like listening to music again. In the meantime, find other things to do to help occupy you.
Best wishes,
DC xxxxxx
Thanks for your comments Daisy Chain.
I am not sure if everything I hear or do is associated with John but I certainly find certain pieces of music set me off eg a Prom a couple of weeks ago on theTV in which were two pieces which were played on the evening we met at a Gramophone Society in 1958. One was The Brahms St.Anthony Chorale a favourite of mine and the other which I hate anyway was the Enigma Variations but I had Nimrod played at John's Funeral because a few weeks before he passed on he asked me to have it played at his Funeral. Another time whilst watching the Junior Dance thing on TV they played True Love, that was our song and I broke down in desperate tears and could not concentrate. I am becoming scared of music for the feelings and memories it evokes in me. Yes, Scottish and Irish is safe as he hated it especially bagpipes which I love and memories of my late Mother hating it when my late Father who was Irish played bagpipe records make me laugh now and I find her dislike strange as she was half Scottish as we Celts are supposed to have an inborn Celtic feeling. Sometimes Daddy played the records just to annoy Mum and thought it hilarious.
I think I am grieving for the fact that John obviously had it "in him" but was denied any training at all as a very deprived and unwanted child of a broken marriage moving from one Home to another and for the fact that for the last few years of his life he could not play his beloved keyboard because his hands were crippled. I used to watch him trying to hit a key very painfully with one finger and finally telling me that his keyboards were now mine as he could no longer play them. I cry just thinking about it. I know I felt and still feel guilty about that and it could be affecting my attempts to play, how unfair that I can and he could not. He was so very special to me and anything that hurt him hurt me. We met just before my 18th Birthday and when I could not get permission to marry him(you had to be 21 in those days) we ran away to Scotland three times, Edinburgh, Glasgow and finally Gretna Green itself, each time running out of money and having to hitch lifts on lorries back to London where we lived together and eventually married just before my 21st with grudgingly given Consent from my Parents who did not attend the wedding. The two things which bound us most were our mutual love of music and respect for animals.
I felt ready to play when I went to those workshops for returning string players run by the Leader of our local orchestra, I felt silly and very embarrassed when she told me in front of everyone else that she did not think I would ever reach orcherstral standard again and this is an orchestra who are so broke they rarely put on concerts and so desperate for players they have no minimum entry standard. It hurt when she said I would hold the others back and it hurt to make excuses and leave the workshops. I feel useless and worthless as a musician and that to me is akin to death because music is/ was everything to me.
I do not know if this is relevant but after my husband died in December and even whilst he was in hospital I developed severe driving phobia and could only drive to the shops avoiding roundabouts where I could and was so scared of night driving I had to leave my husband before 4pm something I feel terribly guilty about. In March I had a bad panic attack on the motorway when I went for a drive to celebrate my car passing the MoT and had to be rescued by a Police patrol. I am driving confidently in town and keeping up with the traffic up to the 40mph limits and can drive within an area of ten miles or so now and am OK with night driving in town but still scared of motorways and fast open country dual carriageways. The ten miles or so restriction is not due to phobia but because I get painful and stiff necks after a few miles and wonder if this is connected to playing the viola being painful? Tension due to stress?
I do have other interests such as amateur radio, photography, computing, art and so on but I am losing interest in everything including cooking for myself. I saw my Doctor a few weeks ago for a specially arranged long session and chat and have an appointment for next week to see if he has managed to get some counselling for me, it is very hard to get round here on the NHS and Cruse are overburdened and would only give me a phone chat. I have no family except a Brother in Canada who does not reply to my emails and letters so I talk to my cat.
Angie
I am not sure if everything I hear or do is associated with John but I certainly find certain pieces of music set me off eg a Prom a couple of weeks ago on theTV in which were two pieces which were played on the evening we met at a Gramophone Society in 1958. One was The Brahms St.Anthony Chorale a favourite of mine and the other which I hate anyway was the Enigma Variations but I had Nimrod played at John's Funeral because a few weeks before he passed on he asked me to have it played at his Funeral. Another time whilst watching the Junior Dance thing on TV they played True Love, that was our song and I broke down in desperate tears and could not concentrate. I am becoming scared of music for the feelings and memories it evokes in me. Yes, Scottish and Irish is safe as he hated it especially bagpipes which I love and memories of my late Mother hating it when my late Father who was Irish played bagpipe records make me laugh now and I find her dislike strange as she was half Scottish as we Celts are supposed to have an inborn Celtic feeling. Sometimes Daddy played the records just to annoy Mum and thought it hilarious.
I think I am grieving for the fact that John obviously had it "in him" but was denied any training at all as a very deprived and unwanted child of a broken marriage moving from one Home to another and for the fact that for the last few years of his life he could not play his beloved keyboard because his hands were crippled. I used to watch him trying to hit a key very painfully with one finger and finally telling me that his keyboards were now mine as he could no longer play them. I cry just thinking about it. I know I felt and still feel guilty about that and it could be affecting my attempts to play, how unfair that I can and he could not. He was so very special to me and anything that hurt him hurt me. We met just before my 18th Birthday and when I could not get permission to marry him(you had to be 21 in those days) we ran away to Scotland three times, Edinburgh, Glasgow and finally Gretna Green itself, each time running out of money and having to hitch lifts on lorries back to London where we lived together and eventually married just before my 21st with grudgingly given Consent from my Parents who did not attend the wedding. The two things which bound us most were our mutual love of music and respect for animals.
I felt ready to play when I went to those workshops for returning string players run by the Leader of our local orchestra, I felt silly and very embarrassed when she told me in front of everyone else that she did not think I would ever reach orcherstral standard again and this is an orchestra who are so broke they rarely put on concerts and so desperate for players they have no minimum entry standard. It hurt when she said I would hold the others back and it hurt to make excuses and leave the workshops. I feel useless and worthless as a musician and that to me is akin to death because music is/ was everything to me.
I do not know if this is relevant but after my husband died in December and even whilst he was in hospital I developed severe driving phobia and could only drive to the shops avoiding roundabouts where I could and was so scared of night driving I had to leave my husband before 4pm something I feel terribly guilty about. In March I had a bad panic attack on the motorway when I went for a drive to celebrate my car passing the MoT and had to be rescued by a Police patrol. I am driving confidently in town and keeping up with the traffic up to the 40mph limits and can drive within an area of ten miles or so now and am OK with night driving in town but still scared of motorways and fast open country dual carriageways. The ten miles or so restriction is not due to phobia but because I get painful and stiff necks after a few miles and wonder if this is connected to playing the viola being painful? Tension due to stress?
I do have other interests such as amateur radio, photography, computing, art and so on but I am losing interest in everything including cooking for myself. I saw my Doctor a few weeks ago for a specially arranged long session and chat and have an appointment for next week to see if he has managed to get some counselling for me, it is very hard to get round here on the NHS and Cruse are overburdened and would only give me a phone chat. I have no family except a Brother in Canada who does not reply to my emails and letters so I talk to my cat.
Angie
I don't know how much I can hel you with this, but I feel so much for you. Reading your messages had me in tears, and I had to share a similar thing I have gone through in the hope that in some really tiny way it would help.
Recently, I have just finished 6 months of counselling with depression. I am 26 and graduated in 2004 with a music degree. I had been feeling depressed since then and I couldn't understand why; I had my music, my family, but something was missing and I didn't know what. I just presumed it was because I had issues going on in my life with family and money, and that I hadn't really done anything 'meaningful' since I graduated.
Oh how wrong I was. As part of my counselling I found a number of things out about myself, about the way I felt, but I gradually understood that my depression went further back than I thought, to the age of 18, when a significant event happened, my Great Aunt died. I had known my Great Aunt since I was born, she would come round every Easter and Half Term, and hear me play my Recorder in a mini concert/recital I would do for her. I also came from a not very well off background and she would be the one that would send me money for a new music book or a white shirt so I could perform in a concert with my music school. The one day, when I just turned 18, she stopped coming. I was really confused, but my Mum got a letter saying that she was going into hospital for a little while because she had tummy trouble, and that we shouldn't worry as she would contact us when she was out. 2 weeks later we got a call from the hospice, she was dying of stomach cancer and had days to live. On our way to the hospice I still didn't twig that she was actually 'dying', I thought we were going in for a visit and it would all be OK. I tried to shut it out but it was when I saw her there (I was there when she died) that I just totally lost it. She died really early in the morning just before Christmas and we went home and woke up the next day like nothing had happened so my Mum wouldn't get upset.
I was in the final year of my A Levels at the time and I went absolutely off the rails; I'm religious too but I hated God for taking her like that, my grades went down, and I tried to block it out but it drove me to despair. I also remembered when I was studying for my degree that I promised her I would get into a certain university and make her proud but I didn't get in, so I felt like I'd let her down. I thought I got over all that once I graduated with good results, I even remember walking down the aisle at graduation and thinking 'I did this for you Auntie. I did it!' and that I could get on with my life.... but the underlying depression was still there. Whenever a beautiful piece came on the radio, or when I walked past a place where she took me as a child, or when I picked up my recorder, all I could think about was her. And I was so sad. I got over all that but I didn't get over the big loss it left in my life, instead I covered it up with depression, and avoiding anything that made me think about her. With counselling, I could come to terms with it, I could turn around and look back to that part of my past and face it head on. The emotions were terrible, and I realised I never gave myself proper time to grieve. Until one day, I heard a piece that she would have loved, and I could see her smiling face looking at me, and I just knew, she was proud of me. And it was all OK. I had gone through so much and now I had to pick up my life and carry on.
I suppose what I mean to say - in a really long winded way which is typical of me! - is, it's OK to feel what you are feeling. It's OK to in a way dissociate yourself from those things that remind you of your husband, to just give yourself time to think and grieve for him. And one day, I promise you, you will be able to listen to your music again, and think of your husband sitting there with you, and it will all be OK. But please give yourself time to do this and ask for help if you need it - your doctor should arrange some sort of grief counselling - and don't let it hang over you. I'm sure your husband wouldn't want that, just as I know my Great Aunt wouldn't.
If you need to talk about anything, please PM me, I'd be only too happy to listen. xxx
Recently, I have just finished 6 months of counselling with depression. I am 26 and graduated in 2004 with a music degree. I had been feeling depressed since then and I couldn't understand why; I had my music, my family, but something was missing and I didn't know what. I just presumed it was because I had issues going on in my life with family and money, and that I hadn't really done anything 'meaningful' since I graduated.
Oh how wrong I was. As part of my counselling I found a number of things out about myself, about the way I felt, but I gradually understood that my depression went further back than I thought, to the age of 18, when a significant event happened, my Great Aunt died. I had known my Great Aunt since I was born, she would come round every Easter and Half Term, and hear me play my Recorder in a mini concert/recital I would do for her. I also came from a not very well off background and she would be the one that would send me money for a new music book or a white shirt so I could perform in a concert with my music school. The one day, when I just turned 18, she stopped coming. I was really confused, but my Mum got a letter saying that she was going into hospital for a little while because she had tummy trouble, and that we shouldn't worry as she would contact us when she was out. 2 weeks later we got a call from the hospice, she was dying of stomach cancer and had days to live. On our way to the hospice I still didn't twig that she was actually 'dying', I thought we were going in for a visit and it would all be OK. I tried to shut it out but it was when I saw her there (I was there when she died) that I just totally lost it. She died really early in the morning just before Christmas and we went home and woke up the next day like nothing had happened so my Mum wouldn't get upset.
I was in the final year of my A Levels at the time and I went absolutely off the rails; I'm religious too but I hated God for taking her like that, my grades went down, and I tried to block it out but it drove me to despair. I also remembered when I was studying for my degree that I promised her I would get into a certain university and make her proud but I didn't get in, so I felt like I'd let her down. I thought I got over all that once I graduated with good results, I even remember walking down the aisle at graduation and thinking 'I did this for you Auntie. I did it!' and that I could get on with my life.... but the underlying depression was still there. Whenever a beautiful piece came on the radio, or when I walked past a place where she took me as a child, or when I picked up my recorder, all I could think about was her. And I was so sad. I got over all that but I didn't get over the big loss it left in my life, instead I covered it up with depression, and avoiding anything that made me think about her. With counselling, I could come to terms with it, I could turn around and look back to that part of my past and face it head on. The emotions were terrible, and I realised I never gave myself proper time to grieve. Until one day, I heard a piece that she would have loved, and I could see her smiling face looking at me, and I just knew, she was proud of me. And it was all OK. I had gone through so much and now I had to pick up my life and carry on.
I suppose what I mean to say - in a really long winded way which is typical of me! - is, it's OK to feel what you are feeling. It's OK to in a way dissociate yourself from those things that remind you of your husband, to just give yourself time to think and grieve for him. And one day, I promise you, you will be able to listen to your music again, and think of your husband sitting there with you, and it will all be OK. But please give yourself time to do this and ask for help if you need it - your doctor should arrange some sort of grief counselling - and don't let it hang over you. I'm sure your husband wouldn't want that, just as I know my Great Aunt wouldn't.
If you need to talk about anything, please PM me, I'd be only too happy to listen. xxx
[quote name='aspiringmusicteacher' date='Aug 19 2007, 03:21 PM' post='574356']
I don't know how much I can hel you with this, but I feel so much for you. Reading your messages had me in tears, and I had to share a similar thing I have gone through in the hope that in some really tiny way it would help.
I had just posted a message when I read yours. Thanks so much for being so brave and sharing so much with me.
I know I need counselling but it is really hard to get here. My Doctor is hopeful that he can get me on to a new counselling thing starting soon and I will find out next week. If not I don't know what to do. I cannot go on like this but in this NHS Trust area you have to be Mental Health Act sectionable before anyone helps you and I was told that I am a strong woman and as I am intelligent and educated I can look after myself.
I will try and keep faith and thanks again for sharing your experiences and feelings.
You are right, my Husband would not want me to grieve like I am doing and he would be the first to encourage me in my music. If and when I try to play again I will try and imagine he is listening to me like he used to. I still have a tape recording of the Bach WTC Book 1 Prelude in C I recorded many years ago, he said he could listen to me playing that for hours. It had a couple of mistakes because I was nervous knowing I was being recorded but I will dig it out and see if listening to it does anything for me.
xxx Angie
I don't know how much I can hel you with this, but I feel so much for you. Reading your messages had me in tears, and I had to share a similar thing I have gone through in the hope that in some really tiny way it would help.
I had just posted a message when I read yours. Thanks so much for being so brave and sharing so much with me.
I know I need counselling but it is really hard to get here. My Doctor is hopeful that he can get me on to a new counselling thing starting soon and I will find out next week. If not I don't know what to do. I cannot go on like this but in this NHS Trust area you have to be Mental Health Act sectionable before anyone helps you and I was told that I am a strong woman and as I am intelligent and educated I can look after myself.
I will try and keep faith and thanks again for sharing your experiences and feelings.
You are right, my Husband would not want me to grieve like I am doing and he would be the first to encourage me in my music. If and when I try to play again I will try and imagine he is listening to me like he used to. I still have a tape recording of the Bach WTC Book 1 Prelude in C I recorded many years ago, he said he could listen to me playing that for hours. It had a couple of mistakes because I was nervous knowing I was being recorded but I will dig it out and see if listening to it does anything for me.
xxx Angie
[quote name='Violist1941' date='Aug 19 2007, 03:36 PM' post='574368']
[quote name='aspiringmusicteacher' date='Aug 19 2007, 03:21 PM' post='574356']
I don't know how much I can hel you with this, but I feel so much for you. Reading your messages had me in tears, and I had to share a similar thing I have gone through in the hope that in some really tiny way it would help.
I had just posted a message when I read yours. Thanks so much for being so brave and sharing so much with me.
I know I need counselling but it is really hard to get here. My Doctor is hopeful that he can get me on to a new counselling thing starting soon and I will find out next week. If not I don't know what to do. I cannot go on like this but in this NHS Trust you have to be mental before anyone helps you and
[/quote]
I don't know where you live, but if you can't get counselling through your GP there are always other services that can help you, or at least there should be. If you PM me and tell me where you live I can help you find some.
[quote name='aspiringmusicteacher' date='Aug 19 2007, 03:21 PM' post='574356']
I don't know how much I can hel you with this, but I feel so much for you. Reading your messages had me in tears, and I had to share a similar thing I have gone through in the hope that in some really tiny way it would help.
I had just posted a message when I read yours. Thanks so much for being so brave and sharing so much with me.
I know I need counselling but it is really hard to get here. My Doctor is hopeful that he can get me on to a new counselling thing starting soon and I will find out next week. If not I don't know what to do. I cannot go on like this but in this NHS Trust you have to be mental before anyone helps you and
[/quote]
I don't know where you live, but if you can't get counselling through your GP there are always other services that can help you, or at least there should be. If you PM me and tell me where you live I can help you find some.
Hi Angie,
I'm not an adult-learner (far from it infact!) but I've been reading both of your threads with interest, and your words have struck a chord. I know some people would say I'm too young to understand these things (I'm 16), but I believe I have experienced enough to have an opinion.
When something happens to us, be it a new arrival, or a death, or even just something like moving house, it affects us. In some cases it's not apparent on the surface that you've been affected by it, even you yourself might not notice straight away. When my Grandfather died I was too young to understand and nothing really changed for me. Now, 5 years later, it seems like it only happened last year, as it took me a number of years to really realise what had happened. This often confuses people, and so they can't comprehend why I still can't talk about him.
Classical music and the piano perhaps reminds you of a time when you were happy with things, when you were satisfied with the way things were. When you hear them now, perhaps they remind you of that time, and so highlight the contrast between your life then and now? I've found that often the happiest memories we have can at times be the cause of the greatest sadness. After all, it's human nature to remember the good times more than the bad.
You mentioned listening to Pibroch - I think that it's possibly because it suits the mood you're in. I know myself, when I'm in a good mood, I'll pick up my violin and play jigs and reels, anything at all bouncy and energetic. The next day, I'll play a slow air because I no longer have the energy of the day before. There is another thread at the moment about how the world affects musical interpretation. I think this relates to that in a way, because it's all very well playing the notes, but the 'music' comes about when expression is put into it, and the notes are played with a purpose and sense of direction.
I think I've probably wittered on for long enough anyway. I really hope that you can find someone to help you. Incidentally, I read your lovely post in my viola thread (which I have quote below) and I fully believe you must still have a love for music, as you sounded so dedicated in the words you used. As I said before, I may be quite young but I have experienced a fair amount in the last few years. Best wishes xxx
I'm not an adult-learner (far from it infact!) but I've been reading both of your threads with interest, and your words have struck a chord. I know some people would say I'm too young to understand these things (I'm 16), but I believe I have experienced enough to have an opinion.
When something happens to us, be it a new arrival, or a death, or even just something like moving house, it affects us. In some cases it's not apparent on the surface that you've been affected by it, even you yourself might not notice straight away. When my Grandfather died I was too young to understand and nothing really changed for me. Now, 5 years later, it seems like it only happened last year, as it took me a number of years to really realise what had happened. This often confuses people, and so they can't comprehend why I still can't talk about him.
Classical music and the piano perhaps reminds you of a time when you were happy with things, when you were satisfied with the way things were. When you hear them now, perhaps they remind you of that time, and so highlight the contrast between your life then and now? I've found that often the happiest memories we have can at times be the cause of the greatest sadness. After all, it's human nature to remember the good times more than the bad.
You mentioned listening to Pibroch - I think that it's possibly because it suits the mood you're in. I know myself, when I'm in a good mood, I'll pick up my violin and play jigs and reels, anything at all bouncy and energetic. The next day, I'll play a slow air because I no longer have the energy of the day before. There is another thread at the moment about how the world affects musical interpretation. I think this relates to that in a way, because it's all very well playing the notes, but the 'music' comes about when expression is put into it, and the notes are played with a purpose and sense of direction.
I think I've probably wittered on for long enough anyway. I really hope that you can find someone to help you. Incidentally, I read your lovely post in my viola thread (which I have quote below) and I fully believe you must still have a love for music, as you sounded so dedicated in the words you used. As I said before, I may be quite young but I have experienced a fair amount in the last few years. Best wishes xxx
QUOTE(Violist1941 @ Aug 16 2007, 01:04 PM) 
Glad you have adopted a Viola and welcome to the Violas from an elderly returner. You will find yourself extremely popular and you only have to walk into an orchestra rehearsal with a Viola to be welcomed like an old friend, I even got clapped, pity I could no longer play. I am watching this thread with great interest especially with regard to reading alto clef as I have forgotten.
Good luck and enjoy your Viola
Good luck and enjoy your Viola
Hi Miss Ross,
Thank you for your message. I am very impressed with your wisdom at 16 and I wish you every success for the future. Since I did part of a primary school music course as a music specialist in the 1970s I have taken a deep interest in music and young persons and I get a real thrill watching YMOTY and the Leeds Piano Competition on TV. You young folk are the future of music, enjoy it!
Whilst I was in the kitchen making an effort to prepare a nice Dinner for myself something occured to me which might have a bearing on my inability to accept myself as a musician.
I will be honest and say that my only interest in going to Avery Hill College of Education in 1975 as a mature student on the music specialist course was the free music lessons and the possibility of teaching music. As it was a primary school course we had to do the whole curriculum which did not interest me as it was in the days of funny reading and plastic toys and ubity dubity for maths. In those days we got a grant and free tuition which we did not have to pay back. I thought about transferring to a proper Music College where I knew mature students were accepted on their merits. I also applied to two teacher training colleges nearer me who had better music courses, Trent Park part of Middx Uni and Putteridgebury which is now part of Luton Uni. and I applied to Trinity College of Music where my singing teacher was a professor, Guildhall and London College of Music. I did not apply to RCM or RAM for some reason.
Four colleges, LCM, Trinity, Trent Park and Putteridge were interested in me because of my singing and keen aural perception and sense of pitch and Trinity and LCM said they would take me if I agreed to transfer to singing as my main study as my piano and viola were not up to entry standard but good enough for second studies and my theory, aural and other stuff was up to standard and they were all keen on my singing. I did my piano audition at LCM for Dr.Lloyd Webber in his study on his grand piano. He was then Principal of LCM and of course we know him as Father of Andrew and Julian Lloyd Webber.
I have been lucky with grand pianos. As my piano teacher/personal tutor at Avery Hill was Head of Music in the Mile End Annexe for mature students I had my lessons on the grand piano in the main hall and when I was a member of Hertford Symphony Orchestra I used to get there early so I could play the grand piano in the hall we practised in and I was completely at ease as people came in and usually carried on until the chatter and clatter of getting the hall ready got too loud.
I agreed with Trinity and LCM to study singing as first although the piano is and was my first love but Avery Hill would not release me because music was a shortage subject then and even one student less would have meant the music course for my year being wound up. I lost interest in the non music part of the course and only turned up for music lessons and our music day when we did theory, keyboard harmony and history of music and eventually it was suggested I leave, which I did and anyway about that time my Husband had the first of many heart attacks that were to make him dependent on my care. I heard later than a student on the English course who played piano was moved to the Music course and they all graduated.
I still bear a resentment towards Avery Hill for refusing to release me to a Music College when my LEA had agreed to transfer my Grant
I cannot believe what I have just written which implies I must have been a fair musician once. If only I could draw on that but my age puts me off anyway. However, I did sing Art Thou Troubled unaccompanied at my Husband's funeral in tune and without crying and I held the fermata and I am proud of that. I have a recording on tape if only I knew how to get it on to my computer and into MP3 or WMV format to upload and let you all be the judge.
Angie
Thank you for your message. I am very impressed with your wisdom at 16 and I wish you every success for the future. Since I did part of a primary school music course as a music specialist in the 1970s I have taken a deep interest in music and young persons and I get a real thrill watching YMOTY and the Leeds Piano Competition on TV. You young folk are the future of music, enjoy it!
Whilst I was in the kitchen making an effort to prepare a nice Dinner for myself something occured to me which might have a bearing on my inability to accept myself as a musician.
I will be honest and say that my only interest in going to Avery Hill College of Education in 1975 as a mature student on the music specialist course was the free music lessons and the possibility of teaching music. As it was a primary school course we had to do the whole curriculum which did not interest me as it was in the days of funny reading and plastic toys and ubity dubity for maths. In those days we got a grant and free tuition which we did not have to pay back. I thought about transferring to a proper Music College where I knew mature students were accepted on their merits. I also applied to two teacher training colleges nearer me who had better music courses, Trent Park part of Middx Uni and Putteridgebury which is now part of Luton Uni. and I applied to Trinity College of Music where my singing teacher was a professor, Guildhall and London College of Music. I did not apply to RCM or RAM for some reason.
Four colleges, LCM, Trinity, Trent Park and Putteridge were interested in me because of my singing and keen aural perception and sense of pitch and Trinity and LCM said they would take me if I agreed to transfer to singing as my main study as my piano and viola were not up to entry standard but good enough for second studies and my theory, aural and other stuff was up to standard and they were all keen on my singing. I did my piano audition at LCM for Dr.Lloyd Webber in his study on his grand piano. He was then Principal of LCM and of course we know him as Father of Andrew and Julian Lloyd Webber.
I have been lucky with grand pianos. As my piano teacher/personal tutor at Avery Hill was Head of Music in the Mile End Annexe for mature students I had my lessons on the grand piano in the main hall and when I was a member of Hertford Symphony Orchestra I used to get there early so I could play the grand piano in the hall we practised in and I was completely at ease as people came in and usually carried on until the chatter and clatter of getting the hall ready got too loud.
I agreed with Trinity and LCM to study singing as first although the piano is and was my first love but Avery Hill would not release me because music was a shortage subject then and even one student less would have meant the music course for my year being wound up. I lost interest in the non music part of the course and only turned up for music lessons and our music day when we did theory, keyboard harmony and history of music and eventually it was suggested I leave, which I did and anyway about that time my Husband had the first of many heart attacks that were to make him dependent on my care. I heard later than a student on the English course who played piano was moved to the Music course and they all graduated.
I still bear a resentment towards Avery Hill for refusing to release me to a Music College when my LEA had agreed to transfer my Grant
I cannot believe what I have just written which implies I must have been a fair musician once. If only I could draw on that but my age puts me off anyway. However, I did sing Art Thou Troubled unaccompanied at my Husband's funeral in tune and without crying and I held the fermata and I am proud of that. I have a recording on tape if only I knew how to get it on to my computer and into MP3 or WMV format to upload and let you all be the judge.
Angie
QUOTE(Violist1941 @ Aug 19 2007, 05:37 PM)
I cannot believe what I have just written which implies I must have been a fair musician once. If only I could draw on that but my age puts me off anyway. However, I did sing Art Thou Troubled unaccompanied at my Husband's funeral in tune and without crying and I held the fermata and I am proud of that. I have a recording on tape if only I knew how to get it on to my computer and into MP3 or WMV format to upload and let you all be the judge.
I'm sure you were more than a 'fair' musician, if various esteemed music schools offered you places. Please don't let your age put you off - I meant to say before...In your reply in the viola thread you described yourself as 'elderly'. I'm guessing your forum name is a reflection on your birthdate, in which case you are not 'elderly'. I know the expression is that you are only as old as you feel, which perhaps is rather 'old' at the moment, but in the future I'm sure you won't feel that way any more . I also noticed that you're from Hertfordshire - I spent a fortnight working there in July, and think it's absolutely beautiful. On another note, I think it might be quite important for you to find a way to move on from your resentment towards Avery Hill, even if that would require professional help. I believe it would help you in imeasurable ways.
Well done for singing at your husband's funeral. I doubt I'd manage to keep sufficiently composed to perform at a funeral, let alone sing, so I really admire you for that.
Hi Angie/Violinist1941.
You have a problem that will come to many of us at some time: The loss of one so loved that losing him is like losing a limb, or worse. In a sense something has died in you - that part of you that was him. Grief is natural, unavoidable and (probably) actually a good thing. I have never lost anyone like that, so empathy I'm afraid is not something I can offer.
However, I can offer hope: When my father died in 1982 my mother cried every day for 2 years. This doesn't sound too great, except that one day she didn't. She didn't stop loving him or missing him, but in her own words "it was as though the sun came out again".
They had been keen members of the local G&S society and the church choir. For those two years after my fathers death my mother couldn't sing, or listen to G&S or listen to a church choir without dissolving. She retreated from music. When the sun came out again she went back to it with a vengeance. Then at a musical evening she met a widower and six weeks after I got married (only 3 months after she met him) she married him. It is grossly unfair that one woman should be allowed to marry two such great blokes.
As I said, the sun came out: It has been out ever since. The last 23 years have been by far the happiest of my mothers life, including the time she spent with my father, as she was ill then (undiagnosed) and she isn't now. During the last 20 years she has been a member or the director of 3 choirs, has composed or arranged most of their music (in 4 languages) and generally had a busy and fulfilling time. At 76 she now feels herself to be fitter and healthier than at any time since she was 12, macular degeneration and mild arthritis notwithstanding.
She still misses my father sometimes, just as my stepfather still misses his first wife sometimes. However, both of them believe that marriage is "until death us do part". Life is for the living: When the normal stages of grieving are done, and they will be, life will still be there for you: Good luck.
As for being "a fair musician" I would guess you probably were and still are: You may not be as good as you once were, but as long as you can still play/sing/listen/think I genuinely believe that this doesn't matter. On the one hand you will improve again if you practice and on the other, music is such a broad church that you will be able to find something to suit you, somewhere. If your existing instruments don't inspire you any more try a new one: Bagpipes, harp, flute, guitar, drums, flugelhorn . . .
Then again, there was a progamme on the BBC many years ago called "Oneupmanship" and in their words "if music be the food of love, play . . . golf!"
Best wishes
Rob
You have a problem that will come to many of us at some time: The loss of one so loved that losing him is like losing a limb, or worse. In a sense something has died in you - that part of you that was him. Grief is natural, unavoidable and (probably) actually a good thing. I have never lost anyone like that, so empathy I'm afraid is not something I can offer.
However, I can offer hope: When my father died in 1982 my mother cried every day for 2 years. This doesn't sound too great, except that one day she didn't. She didn't stop loving him or missing him, but in her own words "it was as though the sun came out again".
They had been keen members of the local G&S society and the church choir. For those two years after my fathers death my mother couldn't sing, or listen to G&S or listen to a church choir without dissolving. She retreated from music. When the sun came out again she went back to it with a vengeance. Then at a musical evening she met a widower and six weeks after I got married (only 3 months after she met him) she married him. It is grossly unfair that one woman should be allowed to marry two such great blokes.
As I said, the sun came out: It has been out ever since. The last 23 years have been by far the happiest of my mothers life, including the time she spent with my father, as she was ill then (undiagnosed) and she isn't now. During the last 20 years she has been a member or the director of 3 choirs, has composed or arranged most of their music (in 4 languages) and generally had a busy and fulfilling time. At 76 she now feels herself to be fitter and healthier than at any time since she was 12, macular degeneration and mild arthritis notwithstanding.
She still misses my father sometimes, just as my stepfather still misses his first wife sometimes. However, both of them believe that marriage is "until death us do part". Life is for the living: When the normal stages of grieving are done, and they will be, life will still be there for you: Good luck.
As for being "a fair musician" I would guess you probably were and still are: You may not be as good as you once were, but as long as you can still play/sing/listen/think I genuinely believe that this doesn't matter. On the one hand you will improve again if you practice and on the other, music is such a broad church that you will be able to find something to suit you, somewhere. If your existing instruments don't inspire you any more try a new one: Bagpipes, harp, flute, guitar, drums, flugelhorn . . .
Then again, there was a progamme on the BBC many years ago called "Oneupmanship" and in their words "if music be the food of love, play . . . golf!"
Best wishes
Rob
My father died 10 years ago, my mother was only 61 when he passed.
My mother is an extremely intelligent lady and at the age of 11 passed her 11 plus for grammar school, which she was not allowed to go to because of the cost of the uniform.
A few years ago she attended college to do an access course for university, and now at the age of 70 she is in her final year at Warwick university for a history degree.
Her grief for the loss of my Dad was excrutiating to watch and witness, apart from me she had no one else to talk to, and i was barely coping myself.
What she did Angie, is that she wasn't able to focus on anything for "herself" so she put a photo of herself (when she was about 10 years old) on her living room wall, and everything she does now, all the revision, the terrifying essays, the exams .... everything, everything she does is for the "girl on the wall" - at times when she feels like giving it all up, she looks at the girl on the wall and knows that she can't, she has to go on, she has to do it for her. That alone keeps her motivated.
I have to say one more thing to you, and that is, i don't think you have given yourself enough "time" to adjust Angie, one step at a time
My mother is an extremely intelligent lady and at the age of 11 passed her 11 plus for grammar school, which she was not allowed to go to because of the cost of the uniform.
A few years ago she attended college to do an access course for university, and now at the age of 70 she is in her final year at Warwick university for a history degree.
Her grief for the loss of my Dad was excrutiating to watch and witness, apart from me she had no one else to talk to, and i was barely coping myself.
What she did Angie, is that she wasn't able to focus on anything for "herself" so she put a photo of herself (when she was about 10 years old) on her living room wall, and everything she does now, all the revision, the terrifying essays, the exams .... everything, everything she does is for the "girl on the wall" - at times when she feels like giving it all up, she looks at the girl on the wall and knows that she can't, she has to go on, she has to do it for her. That alone keeps her motivated.
I have to say one more thing to you, and that is, i don't think you have given yourself enough "time" to adjust Angie, one step at a time
Hello angie,
Nice to meet another Angie! Don't know about you but I hate being called Angela because my parents always used my full name when they were cross with me and Andy was my pet name for some reason.
Thank you for telling me your story and plaudits to your Mother! Yes it does inspire me.
I am temporarily out of my depression thanks to that wonderful Venezualan Youth Orchestra on the Proms which I watched part of on BBC Four last night. But being borderline MD and easily upset I cannot guarantee how long it will last but I am listening to music and have just tidied up my CD collection and discovered three I have had for ages and not even taken the shrink wrap off yet! I am listening to a CD of the theme music to the BBC series Monarch of the Glen, it was my Husband's CD and he loved the series and we used to argue over whether to watch Monarch or Heartbeat. I am quite calm and not crying but would give anything to be arguing over TV channels with him again.
Last night I watched a DVD I bought for John's benefit of the Tchaikovsky Piano Concerto No.1 which was also one of the first works we listened to together. I did not cry, too busy listening out for a very young Evengy Kissin's wrong notes and watching the wonder BPO playing under Herbert von Karajan.
Angie
I started this topic because I did not want my other one to get too long but it's getting confusing having two topics which seem to be merging and on the same lines so I am asking the Administrator to close this topic and move the messages to my Returning to Music at Age 66 topic.
Nice to meet another Angie! Don't know about you but I hate being called Angela because my parents always used my full name when they were cross with me and Andy was my pet name for some reason.
Thank you for telling me your story and plaudits to your Mother! Yes it does inspire me.
I am temporarily out of my depression thanks to that wonderful Venezualan Youth Orchestra on the Proms which I watched part of on BBC Four last night. But being borderline MD and easily upset I cannot guarantee how long it will last but I am listening to music and have just tidied up my CD collection and discovered three I have had for ages and not even taken the shrink wrap off yet! I am listening to a CD of the theme music to the BBC series Monarch of the Glen, it was my Husband's CD and he loved the series and we used to argue over whether to watch Monarch or Heartbeat. I am quite calm and not crying but would give anything to be arguing over TV channels with him again.
Last night I watched a DVD I bought for John's benefit of the Tchaikovsky Piano Concerto No.1 which was also one of the first works we listened to together. I did not cry, too busy listening out for a very young Evengy Kissin's wrong notes and watching the wonder BPO playing under Herbert von Karajan.
Angie
I started this topic because I did not want my other one to get too long but it's getting confusing having two topics which seem to be merging and on the same lines so I am asking the Administrator to close this topic and move the messages to my Returning to Music at Age 66 topic.
QUOTE(Violist1941 @ Aug 19 2007, 12:02 PM)
Or maybe it is all too early yet as I am beside myself with grief for my Husband.
You've had loads of great advice and stuff, Angie. I think you're spot on with this. You're still grieving and it's still raw. It doesn't mean it'll be like that forever!
Anyway I've not really got anything to add to the lovely posts you've already had but wanted to say I am thinking of you.
QUOTE(Violist1941 @ Aug 19 2007, 02:53 PM)
I felt ready to play when I went to those workshops for returning string players run by the Leader of our local orchestra, I felt silly and very embarrassed when she told me in front of everyone else that she did not think I would ever reach orcherstral standard again and this is an orchestra who are so broke they rarely put on concerts and so desperate for players they have no minimum entry standard.
With that attitude from the leader is it any wonder they are desparate for players? He/she is an idiot: Ignore him/her. Oh, and make a point of feeling morally superior!
QUOTE(Robodoc @ Aug 20 2007, 06:38 PM)
QUOTE(Violist1941 @ Aug 19 2007, 02:53 PM)
I felt ready to play when I went to those workshops for returning string players run by the Leader of our local orchestra, I felt silly and very embarrassed when she told me in front of everyone else that she did not think I would ever reach orcherstral standard again and this is an orchestra who are so broke they rarely put on concerts and so desperate for players they have no minimum entry standard.
With that attitude from the leader is it any wonder they are desparate for players? He/she is an idiot: Ignore him/her. Oh, and make a point of feeling morally superior!
Thank you Rob and you are right. She should have known better only six months after I was widowed anyway to say anything that might dent my confidence. I actually sat at the back during orchestra practice afterwards crying because I was too upset to drive and no one took any notice and I could not even phone my husband from my mobile as I would normally have done when upset because he was dead. I reckon I reached rock bottom that evening. OK I will try and feel morally superior and won't let it stop me proving I can play, I just need confidence and to grieve properly.
Angie
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.