Hello everyone!

Just a quick question really...I have a retired gentleman come to me for piano lessons, a complete beginner but progressive despite his age. He has large hands and is facing the predictable beginner's hurdle of dealing with the inflexibility of fingers 4&5. We have on numerous occasions hit the obstacle of playing a chord, such as C major, only to find playing with the recommended fingering of 1-3-5 difficult (in the context of the pieces this is a logical fingering and is suggested by the books we are using). Due to the size of his hand, he feels much more comfortable playing with fingers 1-2-3 but something inside tells me I should be recommending the suggested 1-3-5 fingering so as to familiarize him with using finger 5 in this way. But something else inside me says fingering is relative to hand shape and the most comfortable (and audibly pleasing) fingering should be chosen.

I'm flummoxed! Help would be greatly appreciated!

That's an interesting problem...

I suppose I'd say two or three things. First, if he uses only his first 3 fingers, the other two will never get the flexibility they need. He might get away with it for a while, but if he progresses, he'll eventually require all five fingers at once! Second, and I say this only because I've found it to be the case sometimes, adult beginners have a greater tendency to do things 'their own way', perhaps because they have greater independence than youngsters, or just because they're out of the habit of learning, and in the habit of making their own decisions about things. As a result, you may not be doing him a favour if you allow him to choose the best way, and he may be less inclined to listen to you about other things. (I've also had some excellent adult pupils, but you can easily handicap yourself, I find). Lastly - and in contradiction to what I've just said! - fingering is always a suggestion. Perhaps you could compromise with 1, 2, 4, until he's a bit more comfortable and can use 5 more easily.

Oh, and before I forget, you might try some exercises to strengthen those fingers specifically.

Don't know if any of that will help!

I have a similar problem with a teenage boy. His father is a very big man and the boy is probably going to be even bigger. He, as boys do, grew suddenly and almost over a term lost his crisp clear technique which made him a particularly good player of baroque pieces for his age. He is very musical, and not a beginner - around Grade 6 - so the problem isn't quite the same as yours.

I found myself automatically correcting his fingering when he didn't use what would normally be considered to be correct. But by trial and error we came to the conclusion that most of the time his versions were much better because they were more adapted to the size of his hands. I have decided that what I must do is quite simply listen - if the result is what I want him to achieve and if he finds it more comfortable I let him work out his own fingering. He is almost always right.

Actually your question might raise a bit more discussion about size - the human race is getting bigger - is that going to affect instrumentalists ?

As someone who came back to playing the piano at 59 after a 40 year gap, I found my fingers were so stiff that I could not stretch an octave, play any scales, hold down chords or get around ornaments. So I stopped trying to play for six months and did nothing but Hanon exercises. Every day. For at least an hour.

It worked - yes, I still have to work on my fingers all the time but by the time I went to classes again, I could at least - stretch an octave, play some scales, hold down some chords and get around 1 or 2 ornaments. With the help of my teacher, I have improved and hope to do so further.

I think it depends on what comes before and after.
Sometimes 1-2-3(or4) will be ok and sometimes 1-3-5 will be the best solution because of where you are coming from or going to.

How often does a 135 chord actually occur in more complex music, thinking about it? As in, where 135 is the only option? I know what you're saying about 4 and 5 being weak, but what about spreading him out a bit more over more of the keyboard to strengthen 4 and 5 rather than staying in tight? I have a large-handed adult male too, and I gave up on trying to get him to use the right fingers in the very early days when he was round Middle C. (Don't shout at me; he ignored me, anyway! ) Anyway, he's at Grade 4 now, and 4 and 5 are not too bad at all.

If this helps (I'm an adult learner) I used 1-2-4 for grade 4 and can now, one year later (post grade 5), do 1-3-5 or 1-2-5 although I do occasionally 'lapse'!

I'm not sure that it's right to describe it as 'lapsing' if the desired effect is still produced. Playing music on whatever instrument is all about producing the desired effect. Yes, I know that we need certain technical abilities to be able to produce this desired effect, but we all have different shaped hands. What works for one will not work for another, and by the same token, what is impossible for one player will seem easy to another. I've often ignored convention in early classical music - Haydn, for example - in the playing of thirds, because I was able to get more clarity with unconventional fingering. It worked for me; it might seem awkward for others. I'm good at leaps; others who have been more diligent in practising their scales in thirds might be happier to know what notes are under their hand if they go with what was in the scale book. (I've never been a believer, as many are, that scales are 'the' way forward.) But the point I'm trying to make is that we are producing music - not performing technical exercises - and how that is achieved is in the domain of the individual. Strengthening 4 and 5 is obviously important, but the answer is in playing music where there is no alternative but to use 4 and 5, not in pointedly using 4 and 5 when there's an easier way to produce the desired effect.

Hello,
Wow, thanks for all your help. The helpful and rapid response of you all never ceases to amaze me.
I definitely see the wisdom in these words...using the easiest fingering (1-2-3 in the example of C major) whilst supplementing with exercises specifically for the strengthening of fingers 4&5. I shall suggest this to my pupil and I'm sure he will be very pleased!

Incidentally, what kind of exercises would you all recommend for this purpose, bearing in mind he is in the early stages? I use Dozen a Day prolifically at all levels, but when it comes to Czerny/Cramer/etc. I am in deep and unfamiliar waters. Did Czerny create many exercises for the young/adult beginner?

Thanks again,
William

There are quite a variety of exercises and studies around at various levels. Frankly I think Czerny, Hanon, the Brahms exercises and so on are set at a level of difficulty that is way beyond a beginner (though I stand to be corrected). I'd stick to what you know.

Some of Czerny's stuff is fun to play, but Hanon definitely didn't have pleasure in mind! If you have a particular problem, technically, I honestly think it's better to find music that will improve your technique instead.