I always play my violin standing up when I'm at home and I find it really difficult to play sitting down - has any one tips on the correct way to sit? I either can't see the music, crash my bowing arm into my knee or, to prevent this happening teeter periously on the edge of the chair. All in all I find it mighty uncomforable and difficult to bow properly. All posture advice is on standing whilst playing but none of sitting down. Anyone else have this problem or solutions to this problem?

Goldfinch

That's an interesting point! I never used to have this problem in my 'yooth' but now I find that I tend to crash my bow into my leg when sitting - or end up sitting in a very tense, uncomfortable position to try to avoid it. Obviously the problem is worst when playing on the top string - and I seem to find it worse on viola. Any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated...

W

I had to go and get my violin out and sit and play it in order to answer this. The only thing I remember being told as a teenager by my teacher is that your playing position when sitting should allow you to stand up imediately from that postion without moving your feet or adjusting your balance first. This is not because you need to stand up but it shows that your back is "active" and you are "on your feet" (the " " phrases are my old teachers). If you are plonked on a chair with your thighs in front of you parallel to the floor and your calves at right angles to the floor you cannot stand up from there without moving your feet.

Anyway FWIW how I sit now is:-

Left buttock very near the front of the chair right buttock further back. My hips and torso are facing out at about 45 degrees to the right of where the chair is pointing. Because of a history of back problems I try to keep my whole torso from hips to shoulders straight with no twist and poised as if I was standing.

Left leg points directly forwards from the front of the chair, thigh parallel to floor, foot flat on floor, foot slightly behind the knee so angle at the knee is slightly less than a right angle.

Right foot is somewhat tucked under so it is slightly under the chair and roughly under my left buttock and on the toes of my right foot with heel off the floor. Right knee is low with right thigh sloping down.

Violin points a bit to the left of where my left leg is pointing.

I don't use any form of cushion as I have sufficient built in padding in the seating area. Only problem I have is with those horrible stacking, plastic bucket type chairs where the front edge is higher than the middle of the seat


I don't know whether all this would be considered correct but I don't get any problem hiting my knee with the bowing hand.

For those with a short torso (compared to their legs), this is an ideal sitting position and one I also adopt, but I tend to have the habit of letting my right leg end up with the knee almost touching the floor.

If you are short in the body, ie. shoulders to hips, then the risk of hitting the bow on your right leg is quite high. For those with a long torso, it's less of a problem.

I agree that plastic chairs with raised edges are the most uncomfortable ever.

It's a case of adopting a postion that suits you and your physique best, but also one that doesn't interfere with other players if you are sharing a desk in an orchestra.

Is it feasible, assuming one travels to orchestra by car, to take your own chair? I too hate those horrible plastic chairs and would certainly insist on taking my own if I ever joined an orchestra that used them, after all the bassists take their stools don't they?

Angie

Angie, I'd imagine you could, if it's going to influence your performance and comfort .

Personally, I seem to perch precariously close to the edge of the seat. Since I've started leading, I've found I need to be able to look over my left shoulder quite easily, whilst maintaining sufficient contact with the conductor, lead cellist etc. I think it's important to sit in a way which gives you freedom to move, but also supports you.

What frustrates me is when members of an orchestra, or indeed anyone who is sitting down to play, is sitting right in the back of their seat, legs crossed, back hunched and terrible posture. It's one of my pet hates. There's no way you can produce a good sound if you're cramped like that. Sitting towards the edge of the seat allows you to angle yourself in whatever way is necessary, and if you plant your feet firmly on the ground you won't get a sore back either, I don't think.

There are many professional players who have a physique which does allow them to sit with their back against the chair (but not slumped). There is nothing wrong with this providing they don't look too casual.

Planting feet firmly on the ground is not an option for all. I don't, I can't because my upper body is quite short and my right leg gets in the way, but I've not yet suffered a bad or sore back.

On the subject of chairs again, many cellists also carry their own chair or stool. Another alternative that I've found useful for chairs that have a seat which slopes backwards(!), are two square blocks of wood about 5 or 6 cm thick with a fairly large round or square recess cut in the top in the top. Place them under the back legs of the chair. Depending on how sloped the seat originally was, the blocks will either raise the seat to a horizontal position, or tilt it forward a little. NB. If you do this, do remember to take the blocks home again after the rehearsal/performance, or they'll end up in the bin when the stage crew clear everything away!

I find a wedge shaped cushion helps my posture, and it will also help the 'slopey seat' syndrome Amanda has mentioned above. I take it with me to orchestra etc. You can get them from physio shops like these. I use mine especially if I am sitting down for a long time.

Also I tend to sit forward and with my right leg tucked back. Difficult to be elegant.

You could try looking at how orchestral members sit (eg the current Proms broadcasts might be good for this), and try different postures.

Alternatively you could try this posture, which seems to be advocated by a couple of Zakhar Bron's best students

This is probably a silly question, but if you find playing sitting down so difficult, why do it? Still, if you must, try out a Balans kneeling chair, or stool. These are very good for the posture, and allow for unrestricted movement, as well as being extremely comfortable, once you get used to the unusual sitting position.

I find sitting down to play quite aukward too. Again with the bow crashing into my leg.

Zhuologist - You cant play in an orchestra standing up! And I don't think I've ever seen anyone standing to play at a session. Mind you, we were all pretty well watered by the time we actually started playing!!

I found that flinging my shoulder rest in the bin and insisting on playing with a pint of guinness in front of me helped a lot...

Seriously, though, when I practise I try to observe a rule that an Alexander technique teacher once told me "your legs are not meant to bend at 90 degrees to your body" - what this means is that I either elevate the rear legs of the chair or I place a sloping cushion on the chair in question - just to elevate me slightly above the normal level and mean that my legs are not at 90 degrees to my torso, but slightly more. It's surprising how much more comfortable one feels - think of those typist chair thingies - that's about the right angle.

Failing that, insist on guinness served free of charge by those in charge of the music making.

Drummed into me since i first started playing in orchestras:

###### right forward on edge of seat, feet flat on the floor NOT CROSSED IN ANY WAY, back straight, no twisting.

I occasionally get the crashing problem. If it happens, i move my right foot further underneath the chair, producing the effect of lowering the knee, hence moving it out the way.

Doesn't sound very comfortable, but it's the only way to avoid back pains etc.

Yay, I actually have some words of wisdom to pass on lol.

EDIT: sorry didn't realise you can't write b - u - m ....... put "bottom" where the hashes are.

Well I'm going to have to study all these tips - the pint of guiness sounds a good one and I'm very impressed if the two lads (?) in the pic actually managed to make a noise at all without doing themselves some serious damage in some delicate places

Anyway thanks for all the advice - keep em coming - and yes Zhuologist - one would look a bit daft standing up in an orchestra or ensemble when everyone else was sitting down I only realised I had a problem with it when I attended the forum concerts.

Chirps,

G.

I see what you mean, Goldfinch. I forgot that you played in an orchestra or forum.

Well they both seem to be able to make a great sound now, and as far as I am aware there has been no lasting damage !

It is good that you are trying to play sitting down, for all violinists should practise standing and sitting. If you're having troubles sitting, try the following:

1. ALWAYS keep a straight back and sit up rights.
2. NEVER lean back in the chair and slouch. Place yourself towards the front end of the chair to encourage a straight back.
3. Don't worry about your feet! Place them wherever you want them but don't cross them over (except for at the ankles if you wish)
4. Keep the violin level like a table so that it is not wonky. This could be why you knock your leg with your bow so often.
5. Don't hold your violin to far to the left as this could also be a reason why you keep knocking your leg with your bow.

Hope that helps.

Best of luck with your posture and feel free to PM if you need any more help.