Hi guys.
I'm already teaching piano to a few of my friends but not charging.After my grade 8 i want to get about 4 pupils,maybe like 5 years olds etc and teach.What do you reckon a reasonable price would be -i don't want to feel like i a ripping them off because i don't really have that much experience with teaching.
P.S i am 16
Thanks,poppys.

I wonder whether 5 years old is a good idea unless they are very forward 5 year olds and/or you have particular skills for teaching this age?

I sometimes have trouble with 6 year olds as far as concentration goes and I do change activity frequently.
I think that with younger children it's better if a parent is in the lesson and willing to take notice of what is going on to help with practice at home.
I generally prefer beginners to be 7 or 8 at least.

I agree, try 7 year olds as the youngest. How do you intend "to get" them? What books would you use? What planning will you do for the lessons? Just wondering.

Post-Grade 8 is okay to start teaching (in my opinion, anyway!) so don't sell yourself short. By doing this, you might just get up the noses of other local teachers who charge the established going rate, as you could be seen to be undercutting. I agree with others that you shouldn't take on pupils that are too young, though, as this is not the easiest option unless you have lots of experience of young children and what makes them tick. 7 is a good average starting age. As for what to charge - fish aroung for what is standard in your area, and what about starting, say a pound below that, making it clear that you intend to raise fees to the going rate after, say, a year's experience?

Yeah,well i meant like about like ages betwenn 5-10 really.I like teaching really young children,i've even managed to get my 3 year old cousin to play twinkle twinkle! I think i will use the "first tunes for ten fingers" books and the Pauiline Hall tutor books.I have quite a few lesson plans already sorted but maybe need changing a bit for a younger age range.I think i will put an advert in the local library and produce a little leaflet or something.I might just spread the word around because my mother has a few friends with young children who want to start piano. Please share with me the books you use etc or teaching methods.Any advice would be really appreciated,i feel like the little fish in the big pond! thanks poppys.

i forgot to say-do you think £5 is ok then for starters?

Sorry-"edit"

Do you think 5 pound will be ok for starters?

Have you read any books about the various teaching methods available? I think it's absolutely vital for anyone who wants to start teaching (regardless of their level) to be aware of how to teach music musically. You may have been really lucky and had teachers who taught you musically, for example developing understanding of pulse and rhythm through movement, the inner ear through singing and playing by ear. There is so much more to music teaching than playing the dots on the page. People frequently teach in the way they were taught and are not even aware of the myriad ways to get points across.

For example during a child's first lesson (let's take a 5 year old), I'd assess / teach the concept of pitch and pulse as follows: I improvise using a pentatonic scale and crotchets only (walking notes) and the child has to walk in time, actually you need to see the child walking first to ascertain his speed, then you should match it. You may find he can not walk very well with a steady beat so may need to work on this, or you may find that he can in which case I ask the child to walk when I play low notes (having checked he knows how a low note sounds) and claps when I play high notes.

I would also see whether the child can tell if one note is higher / lower than the next by playing two notes, showing him the first one and seeing if he can find the second one by testing them out. Singing is helpful here if he can't do it.

This is preparation for the main part of the lesson where we learn to firstly sing and if appropriate, play a simple Kodaly song using only two notes (so and mi). I teach the song, make sure the child can tell which are the high / low notes by moving their hand up and down, then we try to sing and play it on the piano.

I also use improvisation and composition.

I then develop these activities until the child is ready for a tutor book. I highly recommend Dogs & Birds www.dogsandbirds.co.uk, it is especially wonderful for young children, but I also use the blank notes with older children of 7-9.

This is a very creative approach to music teaching and it is so much more fun for the child than putting a book in front of him from the very first day. It also teaches the concepts fully and ensures the child understands them before he sees them written down. It's teaching music in a similar way to how we teach language, learning to speak before learning to read. Anyway, I do wish you success but please do go on a course so that you are equipped to teach musically, whether it's the CT or the Mtpp (a postgrad course that you could consider one day!), or an EPTA one which I understand is quite good. There must be Kodaly ones for instrumental teachers although they can be pricey.

It's also useful to subscribe to magazines such as Music Teacher and the EPTA one is rather good.

I would second Dulciana's advice about what to charge. I did something similar to the above when I first started out (I was 17) and I also took a lot of teaching advice from my music teachers, who were a great source of advice and guidance. I also did a lot of reading, as suggested by Barcarolle.

ps, I forgot to mention that you can also buy teachers' notes with the Dogs & Birds book. They provide lots of ideas for fun music making that you can apply instantly - do try it.

The minimum wage for an adult £5.35 an hour. On 1 October 2007 this will increase to £5.52

So in my humble opinion you are justified in charging at least £5.50/£6 even if you are only 16, it's your time and your expertise afterall

be interested in hearing other opinions on this though

Thanks everyone,i'm going to do a lot of research and reading first.It suddenly hit me that it is the child first start at piano and everything i say/do counts.I really want to make it work so i'm going to take it slow but make sure i'm thorough and creative.

No!

If you want a figure I suggest not going below £8 or £9 as this is probably a little under what others are charging but not too much.
Also if you start too low it's hard to catch up later.

i might try £8 then

Don't forget you will need to let your tax office know that you are self employed and will have to fill in a self assessment tax return every year even if you are earning below the tax limit.
I think you have something like 6 months in which to declare that you are self employed before they can charge you for not doing so.

Another good reason for not being too cheap is that people will take you more seriously if you appear to value yourself. A fiver a lesson, and there's a strong chance the parents will treat it like another weekly activity that's out of sight and out of mind between lessons. If they have to pay more for it, they'll want progress, and you'll be more able, at a higher rate, to persuade them of the importance of practice. Five pounds a week is negligible to many, but 9 or 10 will make them take an interest.

and the National Insurance too....................... but if you are a student and working only during holidays, xmas, easter, summer and earn less than £5xxx in that year then you don't need to pay tax. Still need to pay NI tho..........

22% / 40% income tax..............................................................

ooooooo pooooor u... lukily i am now doing an internship and earn less than £5xxx a year so i only need to pay NI - no need to pay tax!

btw, does anyone know how they calculate the NI ratings?

This is an interesting thread.

Are you planning on going to your pupils' parent's houses or will they come to you? Have you got any public liability insurance if it's the latter?

Is your piano good enough? Have you got an adjustable stool or least something to put underneath a small person so that they are the correct height to play?

Teaching is a great job. Lots of foundational non-teaching things need to be in place first though.

You can get an exemption from NI if you are not earning much.
I think it's about the same as the tax threshold.
I have one.

If you can stay within the tax threshold you could have a nice little earner going soon! Certainly better than standing behind a till smiling at nasty customers for a fraction of the hourly rate! And if you have a decent piano in a room where you'll get privacy, it means you don't have to waste time and money on travel or buy special work clothes.

I'm confused now ,so if i charged £8 and had four pupils that would be £32 a week so £128 a month.Do i need to do all this tax and NI with that bearing in mind i'm 16? Please help me arghh i'm in a muddle now!!

I am confused too... cos i have been charged for £66 something like that after working for 2.5 weeks....

So you got charged for not claiming the tax things ? Sorry if i have totally got the wrong end of the stick!I didn't think teaching piano could be so complicated !

£32 a week x 40 weeks (if you take the summer off) is £1280 a year, so you're well within the tax and national insurance bracket. It's not that complicated, really, so don't worry even if you double that! A friend of mine said recently, about the tax people, "I wish I'd never joined that club. I'd just never have existed and nobody would have known...."

It's three months. And if you're late they CAN fine you £100, even if you are earning peanuts....

Don't even THINK of not registering just 'cos you are earning peanuts now. 'Cos with any luck, sooner or later you'll be earning a bit more than peanuts, and the fall-out of having to register and fess up at that stage is far worse than the initial paperwork.

Correct.

Right ok so if i declare as a private busniness self employed then i will have to pay tax?What is tax return?
And i might add even though this has nothing to do with this-if it eventually came to the time when i needed to enter pupils for exams could i still do that because last time i checked i'm sure it said you can't enter until you are 18.However i dont suppose there is anything wrong woth my mother entering them and getting my name on the certificate as the presented by part? Would ABRSM work it out though because surely i'm in their records with all my exam stuff anyway?

The best thing to do is to phone the new business inquiry line - I'll find and post the phone no. in a moment.
They will be the people to tell you how to do things properly.

EDIT: The number's 08459 15 45 15

No problem with your mother putting in the entry but having your name on the certificates under 'presented by'.

you only need to pay tax until your earnings reach £5,225 in the year 2007-2008.
This changes every year (usually increases).
I think that the National Insurance threshold is about the same so earning less than that you can apply for exemption from paying this too.

You still have to fill in a form for tax even if you don't earn enough to pay any.

Does anyone else find it slightly odd that 16 year olds have to pay tax despite not being able to vote? The American revolted on those grounds....

Unfortunately tax law is like that, YAP. Everyone is liable to be taxed whether they can vote or not. Just generally children don't earn enough to use up their personal allowances.

By the way, the small earnings exemption for NI is around £4,400 (can't remember the exact no.) this year, so well below the tax threshold.

When in doubt - phone the helpline and check.

No, I doubt any kid would as we have to go to school... And anyway our hours are not deemed to be worth as much as an adults, so we would be hard pressed to have to pay tax!

Do you think you would still have to register as self employed if you just taught one person but had a job elsewhere as well?

I am not entirely sure about that. Cos i filled in my P38S form for student and they said if i earn below a certain amount (5225) AND just working in summer / xmas / easter holiday then i don't need to pay tax. Sorry if i got that wrong.

http://search.hmrc.gov.uk/kbroker/inldrev/...t=0&qt=P38S

btw, does anyone know the NI rating categories?

You might not earn enough to pay tax but if you are self employed you still have to fill in a tax form every year.
If you are employed then your employer has to deal with whatever needs doing.

Thanks,i'll give that a call.