I have a pupil playing the list B Tchaikovsky for Grade 7.

A judicious use of rubato is clearly needed, but it's not easy to judge....
I have her pulling back on the rubato a little on the second page, since sometimes I feel she overdoes it to the point that it sounds as if she's unsure of the notes.
There is a section at the start of the AB version of Chopins Nocturnes that talks about there being a lot of badly done rubato about! and I'd like to avoid this. However, I have a general tendency to think that less is more, so am I likely to be erring to far on the other side.

It's not a very clear thing, but does anyone have any thoughts/advice?

I can't comment on the specifics of the piece you mention, but I think once rubato doesn't interrupt the momentum of the piece it is ok. By this I mean not overdoing it, not doing it for the sake of it and not interrupting the 'line'.

I hope this makes sense...I started to type very sure about what I wanted to say but it very tricky to articulate! I would usually play for my students to show them what I mean when I am having a 'no vocabulary' moment like this!

How about recording your student? Then you could discuss it together and I'm sure that would be invaluable to your student. She could try various extremes and approaches and then make an informed choice as to what works.

Its great to teach people at that level...very rewarding if they are good!

Rubato is a sort of subjective thing, so I think it's important that you allow your pupil to go her own way as much as you can, as long as it's tasteful. Also, if you inflict ideas on her, it will sound unnatural and a bit forced rather than 'making sense'. So what is tasteful? It shouldn't sound too deliberate, or it will sound like uncertainty, as you say! A really good sense of phrasing is important, plus a sense of where each melodic line/harmonic progression is going. If there's holding back without the necessary rise and fall of the phrase it won't 'work'. It can also sound wrong if it isn't compensated for by a little 'pushing forward' in the appropriate places as well. But I think the most important thing in making it sound 'right' is the phrasing and a strengthening of the tone where it counts. I'm not familiar with this piece either, I'm afraid - what is the opus number/title? (I don't have an AB Grade 7.)

Yes, I agree it should be essentially instinctive, not forced or just for the sake of it. If the pianist doesn't "feel" it then it might be best avoided or at least minimised. The literal meaning I understand to be "robbed time" and Dulciana is quite right in saying that there should be a counterbalancing pushing forward after the extra time is lingered over. You pay back what you beg/steal/borrow, in other words. Listen to as many recordings as you can to get the measure of the possibilities.

More "caught" than taught methinks!

LR

The piece is Octobre: Chant d'automne.

I was reading this in the AB's Chopin Nocturne's foreword:

'It is worth while quoting Paderewski's essay on this subject:

"Why it is called 'rubato' we do not really know...the most common, the most frequent, the most simple, form of tempo Rubato is obtained by a ritenuto or ritardando which, as everone knows, serves to increase the value of respective notes. Where there is increase, there is no robbery..."

...The real explanation of Tempo Rubato lies in its comparison with elocution. We do not recite poetry in metrical fashion: we make pauses, we make vocal inflections...but we do not at any time lose the general rhythm of the recitation. The practitioners of Tempo Rubato do, however, often distort the general rhythm of music: moreover, some critics are apt to dondemn as inartistic any performer who does not conform to this conventional distortion; and this has led to an extraordinary amount of really bad playing. [then some more Paderewski]...Tempo Rubato is a potent factor in musical oratory, and every interpreter should use it skilfully and judiciously, as it emphasises expression, introduces variety, and infuses life into mechanical execution" '



Too true!